"Lowest Score Wins" by Barzeski and Wedzik

[Darkfrog]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Thank you. Yes, 300 yards every time.

Before I read the twitter feed I was going to write “I’m surprised anyone who regularly plays golf would choose no 3 putts over 300 yard drives.”

Then seeing how many people replied no 3 putts I think overestimating the intelligence of a typical golfer.

[Missouri Swede]

1 hour ago, Darkfrog said:

Before I read the twitter feed I was going to write “I’m surprised anyone who regularly plays golf would choose no 3 putts over 300 yard drives.”

Then seeing how many people replied no 3 putts I think overestimating the intelligence of a typical golfer.

Or underestimating the putting skill of a typical golfer. How many 3-putts do people get (i.e., how many strokes do they think they would they save)?

---

Thinking about it for a minute, I recalled that Arccos has that in their database. Not sure how accurate it is, but they report 3+ putts:

22% for a 20 hcp

18% for 15 hcp 

15% for 10 hcp

11% for 5 hcp 

7% for scratch 

3% tour

Edited September 11, 2020 by Missouri Swede

[Darkfrog]

22 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

Or underestimating the putting skill of a typical golfer. How many 3-putts do people get (i.e., how many strokes do they think they would they save)?

---

Thinking about it for a minute, I recalled that Arccos has that in their database. Not sure how accurate it is, but they report 3+ putts:

22% for a 20 hcp

18% for 15 hcp 

15% for 10 hcp

11% for 5 hcp 

7% for scratch 

3% tour

Could be, but it also feels like people just parroting “putt for dough” dogma.

Those numbers seem accurate - I’m around 15 hdcp and I probably 3-putt 2-3 times a round. But overall I average ~33 putts per round, so I don’t think I lose a ton of strokes putting compared to my skill level (I don’t actually know how my putting stacks up against a typical 15 hdcp). I do know that I lose strokes off the tee.  A 300 yard drive at the course lengths I play basically guarantees no more than a 8-iron approach to most par-4, and every par-5 is reachable. So it still seems obvious (to me at least) that guaranteed 300 yard drive, assuming on target, is more valuable for better scores than never having a 3-putt.

[Missouri Swede]

6 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Could be, but it also feels like people just parroting “putt for dough” dogma.

Those numbers seem accurate - I’m around 15 hdcp and I probably 3-putt 2-3 times a round. But overall I average ~33 putts per round, so I don’t think I lose a ton of strokes putting compared to my skill level (I don’t actually know how my putting stacks up against a typical 15 hdcp). I do know that I lose strokes off the tee.  A 300 yard drive at the course lengths I play basically guarantees no more than a 8-iron approach to most par-4, and every par-5 is reachable. So it still seems obvious (to me at least) that guaranteed 300 yard drive, assuming on target, is more valuable for better scores than never having a 3-putt.

I agree with you. 300 yards would save me 75 yards x 14 holes. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Missouri Swede

[Shindig]

My putting is certifiably awful -- I've had many rounds where I'd shoot 2-3 strokes lower if an average 25 handicapper could be my designated putter. 

I'd still take 300 yards every time.  

Eliminating 3-putts forever might save me 2-3 strokes in my worst rounds, possibly another if I give first putts more juice knowing I'm guaranteed to make the second.  300 yards every time vs my typical 200-215?  Even if my other clubs remaining at their current distances, I'd probably save 5-6 strokes per round -- on some holes at my home course, I'd be hitting wedges into the green instead of hybrids.  

(And I bet that last part alone eliminates one 3-putt bogey per round)

[uitar9]

It's taken me 9 years and twice through LSW to figure out that at my level (200-210 driver, with roll) I can't carry 225. I know...seems stupid ...but you never know when you'll start making those shots you've never made. 

This year decided to learn how to lay up ...and...stop trying stupid shots after a bad shot.

Allowed me to break 90 on a par 72. 

Reducing doubles and triples every game, helps my score better than a birdie once a month

and most of my doubles and triples are due to not laying up and stupid shots after a bad shot

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, uitar9 said:

Reducing doubles and triples every game, helps my score better than a birdie once a month

That's one of the things people should learn about golf: good golf is about reducing your over-par holes, not about making more birdies.

[WillieT]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

That's one of the things people should learn about golf: good golf is about reducing your over-par holes, not about making more birdies.

That has been my goal of late as well - there is a greater sense of accomplishment when you look at a card that has pars and bogies and not so many doubles, triples or worse.  Case in point - last round I played was a solid 90 (4 pars, 10 bogies, 4 doubles) on a par 72 course.  Best round ever and I directly attribute it to the skill sets taught in the LSR book. 

[WillieT]

Been re-reading the book...last night I was on page 89 where Erik discusses the Gate drill and Double Gate drill.  The idea came to me that my grandson's small play football goal would make a perfect gate for hitting the practice balls through.  So this morning I got out there with the 4h, the football "gate" goal, some "double gate" tees and a few of the hard foam practice balls.  What a perfect visual to work on ball striking and early flight....Later today, I used the same base setup to help my grandson on getting his chip shots with his 9iron flying through the goal...again about 20' out. Nothing like seeing the smile on a 4yr old when they hit it pure....Here's a pic of the goal....

 

[FeMan]

This has been a very helpful book and somewhat of an affirmation as to how I approach playing now at 73. Long drives aren’t there but a200 yard drive placed to make the next shot is. Using the game plan and didn’t know it 

The zones etc. have broadened my approach to enjoying the game. Very good stuff in LSW

[JetFan1983]

This book was ahead of its time. It's cool it continues to help people year after year. I might need to re-read it now that I'm gearing up for a return to golf (long absence due to health reasons).

[dennyjones]

1 hour ago, JetFan1983 said:

This book was ahead of its time. It's cool it continues to help people year after year. I might need to re-read it now that I'm gearing up for a return to golf (long absence due to health reasons).

I re-read it every winter. 

[iacas]

On 11/14/2020 at 1:11 PM, FeMan said:

This has been a very helpful book and somewhat of an affirmation as to how I approach playing now at 73. Long drives aren’t there but a200 yard drive placed to make the next shot is. Using the game plan and didn’t know it 

The zones etc. have broadened my approach to enjoying the game. Very good stuff in LSW

Thank you! If you have any other comments, I'd love to hear them. Good, bad… with the latter (for me) being more helpful!

[FeMan]

On 11/16/2020 at 8:15 AM, iacas said:

Thank you! If you have any other comments, I'd love to hear them. Good, bad… with the latter (for me) being more helpful!

Recommended LSW to a much younger player who can bomb the ball but no real feel for what’s next overall. He and I met while playing in a beginner league , if you will, at our club. 

Recommended the book to him and suggested he could get a better feel for the game. He said he would look into it.This was a conversation last Thursday.
He just texted me saying he finished the book and now understands much more and thanked me.

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, FeMan said:

Recommended LSW to a much younger player who can bomb the ball but no real feel for what’s next overall. He and I met while playing in a beginner league , if you will, at our club. 

Recommended the book to him and suggested he could get a better feel for the game. He said he would look into it.This was a conversation last Thursday.
He just texted me saying he finished the book and now understands much more and thanked me.

Nice!

You don't have the badge, either, so let me rectify that for you.

[StuM]

I got my copy of LSW today.  Have not cracked it open yet but likely this weekend.

[WillieT]

2 hours ago, StuM said:

I got my copy of LSW today.  Have not cracked it open yet but likely this weekend.

Congrats - keep it close at hand, it’s a game changer! 

 

[StuM]

Work, life & rereading some chapters 3 times slowed down my reading of LSW but I did finish it tonight.  I think it merits more reads as the season progresses since some aspects can’t be practiced with snow on the ground.  I need to work out my shot zones and need to figure out how to do that.  I do not know a range where I can walk out to my target to plot them as suggested.  I am wondering if it can be done with TrackMan Range? Or if a fellow Michigander can suggest a place it would be appreciated.

One thing caught me by surprise, I’ve read many comments about shot cones and expected to read about them in LSW, but I did not.  I’ll look back on Threads to see where I saw that and what they are.

My main question is for myself, why did I wait nearly 9 months after joining TST to order the book.