"Lowest Score Wins" by Barzeski and Wedzik

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

Any specific recommendations for melding the reading and sims? 

I'll let some others answer that, in part because they'll have better experience, and in part because I'm curious what they'll say.

[dennyjones]

I've played on a sim the last two winters.   First and foremost, too much hitting on a mat will hurt either the elbows, shoulders or wrists.   I know, I played 80 times last winter usually about 36 holes / day.    PT at the start of the season and surgery (back) coming up.

Now... My experiences.  

There is no real penalty for anything on a sim except for water.   Hitting the ball into the rough plays the same and sometimes better than the fairway.   Sure distance is king but you really don't have any reason to work on decision zones.  

Distances on the simulator are different than the real world.   "Not always".   If you play on the sim enough, you'll get a real feel for "sim" distance.   "Each" simulator is slightly different.   The place I played had 3 sims and the distances were sometimes off by as much as 10 yards.    The simulators are Full Swing

Forget putting.   Each varies and it doesn't come close to the "real world" putting green.  Although the place I played had a Full Swing Virtual Green which was sweet.

Think of a golf simulator as a good day to swing a club, maybe eat some nachos and drink.   It's a social event.

Now two new courses just installed Trackman simulators and I've yet to try them.   Maybe they will be different because one course was doing club fittings. 

 

This is my experience and that's all I can speak toward.  My advice, go, golf, grab a drink, watch some TV and spend time with good friends. 

 

[StuM]

Cracked open LSW again last night after I got home.  It is an easy ready but I swear I am seeing things in just the 1st few chapters that I simply do not recall from the first two times I read it.  I'm going to make an effort to actually put more of it into practice this year.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, StuM said:

Cracked open LSW again last night after I got home.  It is an easy ready but I swear I am seeing things in just the 1st few chapters that I simply do not recall from the first two times I read it.  I'm going to make an effort to actually put more of it into practice this year.

There's stuff in there I forget writing. It's a fairly "dense" book, IMO.

[WillieT]

1 hour ago, StuM said:

Cracked open LW again last night after I got home.  It is an easy ready but I swear I am seeing things in just the 1st few chapters that I simply do not recall from the first two times I read it.  I'm going to make an effort to actually put more of it into practice this year.

That’s the beauty of works such as LSW, there are nuggets that we uncover as we learn and see the game in a deeper light. 

[billchao]

2 hours ago, StuM said:

Cracked open LSW again last night after I got home.  It is an easy ready but I swear I am seeing things in just the 1st few chapters that I simply do not recall from the first two times I read it.  I'm going to make an effort to actually put more of it into practice this year.

I reread the chapter on tournament prep today to see if there’s anything I needed to do to prepare for my first tournament. Tomorrow morning. I’m clearly taking it very seriously 😃

[StuM]

5 minutes ago, billchao said:

I reread the chapter on tournament prep today to see if there’s anything I needed to do to prepare for my first tournament. Tomorrow morning. I’m clearly taking it very seriously 😃

Good luck tomorrow 

[StuM]

Question of the day, why can I be "Taught" but I can't "Learn".  I've read LSW 3 times.  I understand & agree with the concepts "Play to the center of the green" and "Shot Zones".  So my question is, why do I not USE that knowledge?

In yesterday's round I found myself constantly short of the green on approach (and that is common on most days).  Suddenely I had a epiphany.  If I know my club's shot zone is say 140-160 yards but seldom does it go 165 then WHY am I hitting that club when my SS says the center of the green is 155 away and the back of the green is 165 away.  Sure, my next club up may be a little longer than the center of the green but most likley it will not be long of the green and more likly will be on the green instead of short.  I need to take more club!  Maybe if being long is dangerous (ie water) then being short is better but that is not always the case and was only the case on 3 holes yesterday.  Thus 83% of the time I was selecting the wrong club.  Sure, I may "Connect" and hit a shot much longer than my shot zone on occasion but I doubt that will be a 83% of the time.  (If I am longer than my zone 83% of the time then I need to recalcuate my zones!) 

 

[boogielicious]

36 minutes ago, StuM said:

Question of the day, why can I be "Taught" but I can't "Learn".  I've read LSW 3 times.  I understand & agree with the concepts "Play to the center of the green" and "Shot Zones".  So my question is, why do I not USE that knowledge?

In yesterday's round I found myself constantly short of the green on approach (and that is common on most days).  Suddenely I had a epiphany.  If I know my club's shot zone is say 140-160 yards but seldom does it go 165 then WHY am I hitting that club when my SS says the center of the green is 155 away and the back of the green is 165 away.  Sure, my next club up may be a little longer than the center of the green but most likley it will not be long of the green and more likly will be on the green instead of short.  I need to take more club!  Maybe if being long is dangerous (ie water) then being short is better but that is not always the case and was only the case on 3 holes yesterday.  Thus 83% of the time I was selecting the wrong club.  Sure, I may "Connect" and hit a shot much longer than my shot zone on occasion but I doubt that will be a 83% of the time.  (If I am longer than my zone 83% of the time then I need to recalcuate my zones!) 

 

I think pride enters into our thinking. Once we can put pride aside, grabbing a longer club is easier. I hit my 7 iron 130-145 yards. If the center of the green is 145, I grab my 6 iron now. 

[billchao]

2 hours ago, StuM said:

Question of the day, why can I be "Taught" but I can't "Learn".  I've read LSW 3 times.  I understand & agree with the concepts "Play to the center of the green" and "Shot Zones".  So my question is, why do I not USE that knowledge?

In yesterday's round I found myself constantly short of the green on approach (and that is common on most days).  Suddenely I had a epiphany.  If I know my club's shot zone is say 140-160 yards but seldom does it go 165 then WHY am I hitting that club when my SS says the center of the green is 155 away and the back of the green is 165 away.  Sure, my next club up may be a little longer than the center of the green but most likley it will not be long of the green and more likly will be on the green instead of short.  I need to take more club!  Maybe if being long is dangerous (ie water) then being short is better but that is not always the case and was only the case on 3 holes yesterday.  Thus 83% of the time I was selecting the wrong club.  Sure, I may "Connect" and hit a shot much longer than my shot zone on occasion but I doubt that will be a 83% of the time.  (If I am longer than my zone 83% of the time then I need to recalcuate my zones!) 

It sounds like you’re starting to realize you have a problem, which is the first step to recovery 😉

I’ve been pretty good at “missing” shots onto the green lately and a lot of it has to do with strategy. From 75-175 yards, I miss 13% long and 15% short in my last 10 rounds. I mentioned it in another thread, but I hit a shot over the weekend to 12’ just right of a front pin. I wasn’t aiming for that pin - it was a miss. Had I hit the shot I wanted to, I would have put it 25’ past the hole.

Don’t worry about the hole location. Aim away from trouble and pick the biggest part of the green as my target. Get the yardage to the front and back of the green. Pick the club that puts me somewhere in between the two most of the time.

I’m still going to mishit it well shorter than expected and sometimes I’ll catch it better than expected and fly the green, but the majority of my standard shots should land within the the length of the green. Think of that once in the lifetime “I hit this so well it flew 10 yards farther than I expected” shot as a miss. It’s an aberration.

And yea, adjust your strategy to account for trouble. If flying the green is dead, absolutely do not do that even if it means missing short.

[Shindig]

4 hours ago, StuM said:

Question of the day, why can I be "Taught" but I can't "Learn".  I've read LSW 3 times.  I understand & agree with the concepts "Play to the center of the green" and "Shot Zones".  So my question is, why do I not USE that knowledge?

What I think really helped me do this was having a plan and deciding to stick to it.  In my club championship last year (3 rounds, with a cut after 36 holes), I had two things I focused on:

* Don't hit into the sand -- I planned every approach around this, and hit zero sand across 54 holes.  Sometimes this meant I had very long birdie putts, and sometimes I 3-putted.  But I didn't have any of the disasters that come with sand.  This goes back to shot zones and planning as if sand were water.

* Have putter in hand for par attempt.  I had 53 par attempts during the tournament (one accidental birdie), 52 of which were made with my putter.  I only made two double bogeys all tournament -- not bad for someone playing in D flight and only five sixes all tournament, with never anything worse than six on any hole.  This all goes back to the key rule for short game shots, described in the book.   On the rare occasion where I missed the green short-sided, I mentally moved the pin back several yards and chipped to that -- sure, I was less likely to make my par putt, but I was also a lot more likely to have a par putt.  I'll take that trade-off for most ways it can happen. 

 

I practiced that strategy for most of the summer leading in, and it helped a lot.  It meant doing things like knowing the shape of my finish patterns and figuring out where I'd maximize the chance of it being on the green while avoiding the sand.   For example, when the pin was forward, I was aiming past the pin:  even with my putting, I'd rather have 30-40 foot putt for birdie than a chip.  

Now I need to get back to that strategy. 

[Themightyoz]

Have read about half the book today.  Quick question on SCOR

 

If the S is

0.5 

And 

O is 14

 

Does that mean the scoring effect is 7 shots!

[iacas]

17 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

Have read about half the book today.  Quick question on SCOR

If the S is 0.5 

And O is 14

Does that mean the scoring effect is 7 shots!

Yes, a 90s golfer is roughly 7 shots worse with the driver (given 14 opportunities) than a median PGA Tour player.

[Themightyoz]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Yes, a 90s golfer is roughly 7 shots worse with the driver (given 14 opportunities) than a median PGA Tour player.

Ok I got it.  The book is great.  You've distilled a lot of the technical side of Every Shot Counts into a much more digestible package and added your own spin with the drills.  Looking forward to reading part 3.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2024 by Themightyoz

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Themightyoz said:

Ok I got it.  The book is great.  You've distilled a lot of the technical side of Every Shot Counts into a much more digestible package and added your own spin with the drills.  Looking forward to reading part 3.

Thanks.

FWIW, ESC came out like two weeks before we were printing LSW. We had just enough time to make note of a few supporting details, but we didn't have ESC to "distill" when we wrote LSW. It's all ours, baby!

[Themightyoz]

47 minutes ago, iacas said:

Thanks.

FWIW, ESC came out like two weeks before we were printing LSW. We had just enough time to make note of a few supporting details, but we didn't have ESC to "distill" when we wrote LSW. It's all ours, baby!

Then that is even more awesome.  Idon't in anyway want to devalue what you wrote.  It is an amazing contribution to the golf library.  

[Themightyoz]

Hi folks.  All right I made it through the book and I've started making these decision maps.  First a really interesting observation that I picked up from the data that I have on my GPS watch. Which I know is probably wildly inaccurate but I will go to a trackman and try to confirm.  That much said what's really interesting is that as the yardages get longer my clubs start going right to left  and then as they get closer and closer to my six hybrid they straighten. The six hybrid is almost straight as an arrow and then the four hybrid the seven wood and the forward start going left to right as they get longer. 

With that in mind my plots for the mapping are quite angular. So for example the driver is at the low point 193 yards and 3 yards left of center and 220 yards and 11 yards right of center. 

Four iron is 139 yds and three right of center to 160 yds and seven right of center 

Pitching wedge is 75 yards and three left of center to 105 and 12 left of center.  

What I find most interesting about this is that when we talk about hitting shots usually we talk about distance and dispersion left to right what this is letting me do is kind of look at dispersion front to back which probably isn't as severe as this but it does kind of give you a picture of what the potential dispersion is.  

NNow for strategy is it better to just aim for the middle of this or to aim for your tendency so for example if your tendency is to go more right than left of targets should you go even more left or should you aim for the middle so that the best case scenario you are three to the left or three to the right for example. 

All of this of course assuming an average yardage between the two numbers.

So For example  is it better with the four iron if I aim five to the left then that should give me anywhere between two to  the left and two to the right 

Or in this case because I tend to go more right than left is it better to just start at say 7 left so left edge of circle and be 4 away left or right on target.

I hope that makes sense. My math brain has had a great afternoon.

 

Edited August 25, 2024 by Themightyoz

[iacas]

The short answer is that, if you try to hit the ball at the target and the center of your Shot Zone is 5 yards right with that club, you should be aiming 5 yards left to center your shot pattern around your intended target (which isn't often the hole, but more often the middle of the fairway, or the left-center of the fairway if there's a pond to the right, or the middle of the green regardless of hole locations etc.).