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Posted

I'm just surprised the standard fitting charts don't reflect the bigger theoretical 'ideal' spread in club lengths for different WTF measurements.

It seems that because of the max length limitation, a really tall player who goes with longer irons will run into a 'ceiling' in terms of the average 'ideal' progressions in club length which potentially affects the distance gapping - though probably less so with driver (Anthony Kim).

I guess as long as the taller player isn't bending too much to sole the proportionally shorter club then they would seem to have more control of the same length lever than a shorter player and more potential to accelerate it well with their longer limbs and higher (relative to the acceleration of gravity) club position at the top.


I would guess that height would become a disadvantage in golf at some point but it's just a guess and somebody may come along and totally blow up that theory.

I also remember when guys that were 6' 9" didn't have the ball handling skills in basketball that some 6' 9" guys have today.

Since basketball players have been mentioned in this thread: It's not unusual for somebody to be world class in one sport and that to not translate very well to other sports. I saw an All-Pro defensive back playing softball one time and he was horrible. His throwing looked about like somebody trying to throw with their off hand and couldn't hit a lick... but he sure could fly down to first base after those little dribblers he was hitting!


Posted

I'm just surprised the standard fitting charts don't reflect the bigger theoretical 'ideal' spread in club lengths for different WTF measurements.

It seems that because of the max length limitation, a really tall player who goes with longer irons will run into a 'ceiling' in terms of the average 'ideal' progressions in club length which potentially affects the distance gapping - though probably less so with driver (Anthony Kim).

I guess as long as the taller player isn't bending too much to sole the proportionally shorter club then they would seem to have more control of the same length lever than a shorter player and more potential to accelerate it well with their longer limbs and higher (relative to the acceleration of gravity) club position at the top.


I think MS256 is saying that you can have a club that is up to the USGA limit of 48", and that any actual club length requirement does not need to fit neatly into the chart you showed.

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Posted
I am 6'11'' and can confirm that being taller doesn't mean you have an advantage. everybody thinks I should hammer that ball for miles with my height, but that's simply not the case although science says so. But without the right technic and accuracy at the ball, nothing happens. my irons have an extra 3 inch on them, which means my pitching wedge probably had the length of your 7 iron. this goes down to +1 inch for the driver though. its a damn hard game no matter which height

Posted

I am 6'11'' and can confirm that being taller doesn't mean you have an advantage. everybody thinks I should hammer that ball for miles with my height, but that's simply not the case although science says so. But without the right technic and accuracy at the ball, nothing happens.

my irons have an extra 3 inch on them, which means my pitching wedge probably had the length of your 7 iron. this goes down to +1 inch for the driver though.

its a damn hard game no matter which height

damn, 6'11"??  can you post a video?  i'd love to see that...

Colin P.

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Posted

damn, 6'11"??  can you post a video?  i'd love to see that...

Not that outrageous, one of the people I spend rounds with is 6'10" (Although he says he's only 6'8",slouching of course).

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Posted
I am 6'11'' and can confirm that being taller doesn't mean you have an advantage. everybody thinks I should hammer that ball for miles with my height, but that's simply not the case although science says so. But without the right technic and accuracy at the ball, nothing happens. my irons have an extra 3 inch on them, which means my pitching wedge probably had the length of your 7 iron. this goes down to +1 inch for the driver though. its a damn hard game no matter which height

You're a very very tall guy. Makes my 6'3" seem positively stunted. My guess is that there comes a point at which being tall is actually a disadvantage, because the sheer size of the swing arc is so wide as to make it more likley that inaccuracies will creep in.

The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.


Posted

You're a very very tall guy. Makes my 6'3" seem positively stunted.

My guess is that there comes a point at which being tall is actually a disadvantage, because the sheer size of the swing arc is so wide as to make it more likley that inaccuracies will creep in.

There is no real advantage or disadvantage to being tall. Plenty of long hitters on both ends (and the middle) of the height spectrum. ;-)

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Posted

I'm tall. 6'. I played basketball, and before you ask, yes, I played b-ball in my youth.

My height gives me an advantage as far as distance, but the disadvantage is that the little errors multiply. The takeaway and downswing has to be more precise, and it takes more practice to get consistent center contact. I struggle with this.

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Posted
There is no real advantage or disadvantage to being tall. Plenty of long hitters on both ends (and the middle) of the height spectrum. ;-)

There's more to scoring than just hitting it long. My contention is that having very long limbs will make it more likely that inaccuracies creep in to what will be a very wide swing arc. In most sports one will find that the more compact guys are better co-ordinated. There are sports (basketball) where the advantages of freakish height outweighs the disadvantages of less precision, but they are few.

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Posted

There's more to scoring than just hitting it long. My contention is that having very long limbs will make it more likely that inaccuracies creep in to what will be a very wide swing arc. In most sports one will find that the more compact guys are better co-ordinated. There are sports (basketball) where the advantages of freakish height outweighs the disadvantages of less precision, but they are few.

In baseball, Mark Mcguire is over 6'5" and is extremely coordinated.

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Posted
In baseball, Mark Mcguire is over 6'5" and is extremely coordinated.

Sure, these people exist. But they are rare even at 6'5", and 6'5" is scarcely an outlier. Our friend here is 6'11", which is exotically rare. And once one's levers are as long as that, the effect of any minor flaw in the swing will be magnified. Even if he's as well coordinated as the average 5'10" guy, him being (say) 5% out in his swing path is going to give rise to a bigger miss than the little guy making a similar percentage error.

The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.


Posted
I'm tall. 6'. I played basketball, and before you ask, yes, I played b-ball in my youth.

My height gives me an advantage as far as distance, but the disadvantage is that the little errors multiply. The takeaway and downswing has to be more precise, and it takes more practice to get consistent center contact. I struggle with this.

the flip side to this is that because you have a naturally longer swing arc you can put less effort into your swing and still be able to swing with power..i.e. your 75% swing is a shorter persons 100% swing allowing you to achieve effortless power/good contact and as you get better you have more potential power.

There's more to scoring than just hitting it long. My contention is that having very long limbs will make it more likely that inaccuracies creep in to what will be a very wide swing arc. In most sports one will find that the more compact guys are better co-ordinated. There are sports (basketball) where the advantages of freakish height outweighs the disadvantages of less precision, but they are few.

Size matters in just about every sport.  there is a reason that you don't see many professional athletes in any sport that are under 6' tall.  Golf however is one of the few sports where size does not give you a great advantage because the game is based around accuracy over power and the short/small guys can hit the ball far enough

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Posted

Sure, these people exist. But they are rare even at 6'5", and 6'5" is scarcely an outlier. Our friend here is 6'11", which is exotically rare. And once one's levers are as long as that, the effect of any minor flaw in the swing will be magnified. Even if he's as well coordinated as the average 5'10" guy, him being (say) 5% out in his swing path is going to give rise to a bigger miss than the little guy making a similar percentage error.

My real point was that there are athletes of all sizes (and now I am adding that it's not just only in golf). A 6'11" golfer and a 5'5" professional basketball player are both pretty rare, but do exist. There is a good reason for this with the common denominator being talent .

Talent overrides any other attribute, including height.

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Posted
My real point was that there are athletes of all sizes (and now I am adding that it's not just only in golf). A 6'11" golfer and a 5'5" professional basketball player are both pretty rare, but do exist. There is a good reason for this with the common denominator being talent . Talent overrides any other attribute, including height.

Who in this thread has suggested that talent is unimportant? But carry on, by all means...

The more I practise, the luckier I hope to get.


Posted
Who in this thread has suggested that talent is unimportant? But carry on, by all means...

Carry on with what???

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Posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Your Wayward Son, perhaps??

LOL.

"Don't you cry no more."

Took me a second to get that..... :doh::-D

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  • Posts

    • Nah, man. People have been testing clubs like this for decades at this point. Even 35 years. @M2R, are you AskGolfNut? If you're not, you seem to have fully bought into the cult or something. So many links to so many videos… Here's an issue, too: - A drop of 0.06 is a drop with a 90 MPH 7I having a ball speed of 117 and dropping it to 111.6, which is going to be nearly 15 yards, which is far more than what a "3% distance loss" indicates (and is even more than a 4.6% distance loss). - You're okay using a percentage with small numbers and saying "they're close" and "1.3 to 1.24 is only 4.6%," but then you excuse the massive 53% difference that going from 3% to 4.6% represents. That's a hell of an error! - That guy in the Elite video is swinging his 7I at 70 MPH. C'mon. My 5' tall daughter swings hers faster than that.
    • Yea but that is sort of my quandary, I sometimes see posts where people causally say this club is more forgiving, a little more forgiving, less forgiving, ad nauseum. But what the heck are they really quantifying? The proclamation of something as fact is not authoritative, even less so as I don't know what the basis for that statement is. For my entire golfing experience, I thought of forgiveness as how much distance front to back is lost hitting the face in non-optimal locations. Anything right or left is on me and delivery issues. But I also have to clarify that my experience is only with irons, I never got to the point of having any confidence or consistency with anything longer. I feel that is rather the point, as much as possible, to quantify the losses by trying to eliminate all the variables except the one you want to investigate. Or, I feel like we agree. Compared to the variables introduced by a golfer's delivery and the variables introduced by lie conditions, the losses from missing the optimal strike location might be so small as to almost be noise over a larger area than a pea.  In which case it seems that your objection is that the 0-3% area is being depicted as too large. Which I will address below. For statements that is absurd and true 100% sweet spot is tiny for all clubs. You will need to provide some objective data to back that up and also define what true 100% sweet spot is. If you mean the area where there are 0 losses, then yes. While true, I do not feel like a not practical or useful definition for what I would like to know. For strikes on irons away from the optimal location "in measurable and quantifiable results how many yards, or feet, does that translate into?"   In my opinion it ok to be dubious but I feel like we need people attempting this sort of data driven investigation. Even if they are wrong in some things at least they are moving the discussion forward. And he has been changing the maps and the way data is interpreted along the way. So, he admits to some of the ideas he started with as being wrong. It is not like we all have not been in that situation 😄 And in any case to proceed forward I feel will require supporting or refuting data. To which as I stated above, I do not have any experience in drivers so I cannot comment on that. But I would like to comment on irons as far as these heat maps. In a video by Elite Performance Golf Studios - The TRUTH About Forgiveness! Game Improvement vs Blade vs Players Distance SLOW SWING SPEED! and going back to ~12:50 will show the reference data for the Pro 241. I can use that to check AskGolfNut's heat map for the Pro 241: a 16mm heel, 5mm low produced a loss of efficiency from 1.3 down to 1.24 or ~4.6%. Looking at AskGolfNut's heatmap it predicts a loss of 3%. Is that good or bad? I do not know but given the possible variations I am going to say it is ok. That location is very close to where the head map goes to 4%, these are very small numbers, and rounding could be playing some part. But for sure I am going to say it is not absurd. Looking at one data point is absurd, but I am not going to spend time on more because IME people who are interested will do their own research and those not interested cannot be persuaded by any amount of data. However, the overall conclusion that I got from that video was that between the three clubs there is a difference in distance forgiveness, but it is not very much. Without some robot testing or something similar the human element in the testing makes it difficult to say is it 1 yard, or 2, or 3?  
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