Are you ready for some NFL Football? 2014 Edition.

[saevel25]

You make no sense. The balls are tested 2 hrs before the game.any difference in temperature between ind and NE would have settled out by then.

Not how that works.

Ideal Gas Laws are based around starting temperature of the footballs and the ending temperature. Even if both end up at the same end temperature, a big difference in starting temperature would mean one ball would deflate more due to the temperature loss.

You realize that this was pointed out in the first meeting between the two teams right? This game wasn't the first time, it was just the first time the league set up the pats to find out what kind of tricks were up their sleeves.

I highly doubt the league set up the Pats. Primarily they would have nailed them already with fines, draft pick loses or forfeiture of the conference championship game. The league is taking their time on this. I don't think they would allow the Super Bowl to happen if they had all the information they needed to nail the Patriots for deflating footballs.

Of course I would like to see you prove that league set them up.

[Abu3baid]

Not how that works.  Ideal Gas Laws are based around starting temperature of the footballs and the ending temperature. Even if both end up at the same end temperature, a big difference in starting temperature would mean one ball would deflate more due to the temperature loss.  I highly doubt the league set up the Pats. Primarily they would have nailed them already with fines, draft pick loses or forfeiture of the conference championship game. The league is taking their time on this. I don't think they would allow the Super Bowl to happen if they had all the information they needed to nail the Patriots for deflating footballs.  Of course I would like to see you prove that league set them up.

Is it common for the league to test footballs at halftime?

[Slice of Life]

http://www.vox.com/2015/1/26/7906127/patriots-deflate-fumble-stats

Interesting...

And Matt, that IS how the ideal gas law works. The Colts (and their balls...lol) had been in NE for a long time before they were tested...therefor, any change in T from the flight would have already affected P, and "settled" as dsc stated, well before the start of the game. Thus, making the claim that Indy's balls were more inflated because they inflated them in Indy...well...ridiculous.

[dsc123]

Not how that works.  Ideal Gas Laws are based around starting temperature of the footballs and the ending temperature. Even if both end up at the same end temperature, a big difference in starting temperature would mean one ball would deflate more due to the temperature loss.  I highly doubt the league set up the Pats. Primarily they would have nailed them already with fines, draft pick loses or forfeiture of the conference championship game. The league is taking their time on this. I don't think they would allow the Super Bowl to happen if they had all the information they needed to nail the Patriots for deflating footballs.  Of course I would like to see you prove that league set them up.

Ugh. The ball passed the pregame test. So it was legal at room temp. Then cooled just like the pats ball. Club ho thinks the pats balls dropped 30 degrees between the time of testing and halftime, but the ind balls stayed at ind (or airplane baggage) temp for days after arriving I'm NE, through the time of testing.

[dsc123]

That Vox article is based on the article someone else posted the other day. Two things I learned from the new article and a more recent post on the former site : 1.And both Sharp and the Wall Street Journal's Michael Salfino looked at players who played for both the Patriots and another team between 2007 and 2014. Those players fumbled 46 percent less often when they were with New England. 2. The pats suddenly became very good at not fumbling in 2007,right after Brady got the rule changed so he could prepare the balls his own way.

[saevel25]

Yeah but Bill Nye also thinks Ken Ham is full of shit so ... Not exactly a credible source. ;)

Anybody know how the Vikings (you know, those guys that were actually caught RED HANDED DURING TJE GAME attempting to doctor the balls, unlike the patriots whose evidence is still only circumstantial) investigation is going? Just like all of you, I'm dying to know how that turns out.

Ken Ham is full of shit, but that is for a different thread

[club ho]

You make no sense. The balls are tested 2 hrs before the game.any difference in temperature between ind and NE would have settled out by then.

You make no sense there are 2 critical times and circumstances here.

1) What was the temperature of the footballs when the ref checked the PSI 2 hrs before the game. So if the Pats balls were brought into the Refs PSI  checking room 2 hours before the game and came from a equipment  room that was 80 degrees you would assume the balls were 80 degreees. If the COLTS balls came from a storage area that was 50 degrees at the same time then you would assume they are 50 degrees. A 30 degree difference. Which would more then explain the PSI discrepancy BTW

2) Now after this the only thing that matters is what the temperature of the 2 different sets of balls  when they get checked at the half time? Being that they both sat outside for   2 hours the time it took to play the first half I would guess they would both be the same temperature as the outdoor weather at half time and I believe it was about 50 degrees.

So at 50 degrees under my scenario the Colts balls PSI would not change but the PATS PSI would drop because the internal air temp dropped 30 degrees.

Does that make sense?

[Abu3baid]

You make no sense there are 2 critical times and circumstances here. 1) What was the temperature of the footballs when the ref checked the PSI 2 hrs before the game. So if the Pats balls were brought into the Refs PSI  checking room 2 hours before the game and came from a equipment  room that was 80 degrees you would assume the balls were 80 degreees. If the COLTS balls came from a storage area that was 50 degrees at the same time then you would assume they are 50 degrees. A 30 degree difference. Which would more then explain the PSI discrepancy BTW 2) Now after this the only thing that matters is what the temperature of the 2 different sets of balls  when they get checked at the half time? Being that they both sat outside for   2 hours the time it took to play the first half I would guess they would both be the same temperature as the outdoor weather at half time and I believe it was about 50 degrees. So at 50 degrees under my scenario the Colts balls PSI would not change but the PATS PSI would drop because the internal air temp dropped 30 degrees. Does that make sense?

What doesn't make sense is why you haven't answered what is the excuse for deflated balls in the first meeting with the colts, and how they knew exactly what to look for in the second meeting?

[club ho]

What doesn't make sense is why you haven't answered what is the excuse for deflated balls in the first meeting with the colts, and how they knew exactly what to look for in the second meeting?

Please produce the documented  circumstances meaning the different PSI's of the PATS balls at the beginning at half time etc! It is my understanding that a PATS ball was turned over to I assume a league official after the game by a COLTS trainer. How do we know that he did not tamper with  that ball to make the PATS look bad?

I think the final name  is going to be SMEARGATE!

[saevel25]

What doesn't make sense is why you haven't answered what is the excuse for deflated balls in the first meeting with the colts, and how they knew exactly what to look for in the second meeting?

Maybe the Colts went into the Patriot's equipment area and deflated the balls on purpose.

On why the balls were taken out of play. Because the refs inspect the ball through out the game and takes the balls out of play. What tipped them off was that they kept taking balls out of play for feeling deflated. Also I believe an Indy player intercepted a ball and ended up informing the refs about it feeling deflated.

[Abu3baid]

Please produce the documented  circumstances meaning the different PSI's of the PATS balls at the beginning at half time etc! It is my understanding that a PATS ball was turned over to I assume a league official after the game by a COLTS trainer. How do we know that he did not tamper with  that ball to make the PATS look bad? I think the final name  is going to be SMEARGATE!

[quote name="saevel25" url="/t/76052/are-you-ready-for-some-nfl-football-2014-edition/1370_10#post_1098750"] [SIZE=13px]Maybe the Colts went into the Patriot's equipment area and deflated the balls on purpose. [/SIZE][SIZE=13px]:w00t: [/SIZE] On why the balls were taken out of play. Because the refs inspect the ball through out the game and takes the balls out of play. What tipped them off was that they kept taking balls out of play for feeling deflated. Also I believe an Indy player intercepted a ball and ended up informing the refs about it feeling deflated.  [/quote] I was about to answer the above, then figured you guys must be joking.. Haha funny guys, really come on??

[saevel25]

I was about to answer the above, then figured you guys must be joking.. Haha funny guys, really come on??

Oh really, only the NEP are allowed to cheat. Are they the only ones we talk about because they are the Patriots.

It seems the common evidence, except the Patriots and the whole previous cheating on the Spygate, is the Colts.

[dsc123]

[SIZE=13px]Maybe the Colts went into the Patriot's equipment area and deflated the balls on purpose. [/SIZE][SIZE=13px]:w00t: [/SIZE] On why the balls were taken out of play. Because the refs inspect the ball through out the game and takes the balls out of play. What tipped them off was that they kept taking balls out of play for feeling deflated. Also I believe an Indy player intercepted a ball and ended up informing the refs about it feeling deflated.

The Balls were in possession of the refs until the game started. I have to assume you're joking when you suggest that someone snuck over to the Pats sideline in the middle of the game, unnoticed, and deflated altered the balls in a way that gave the Patriots an advantage. [quote name="club ho" url="/t/76052/are-you-ready-for-some-nfl-football-2014-edition/1368#post_1098748"]Please produce the documented  circumstances meaning the different PSI's of the PATS balls at the beginning at half time etc! It is my understanding that a PATS ball was turned over to I assume a league official after the game by a COLTS trainer. How do we know that he did not tamper with  that ball to make the PATS look bad? I think the final name  is going to be SMEARGATE! [/quote] You should google and read up about the issue. Most of your comments are based on misunderstandings of the basic, agreed upon facts. [quote name="club ho" url="/t/76052/are-you-ready-for-some-nfl-football-2014-edition/1368#post_1098738"]You make no sense there are 2 critical times and circumstances here. 1) What was the temperature of the footballs when the ref checked the PSI 2 hrs before the game. So if the Pats balls were brought into the Refs PSI  checking room 2 hours before the game and came from a equipment  room that was 80 degrees you would assume the balls were 80 degreees. If the COLTS balls came from a storage area that was 50 degrees at the same time then you would assume they are 50 degrees. A 30 degree difference. Which would more then explain the PSI discrepancy BTW 2) Now after this the only thing that matters is what the temperature of the 2 different sets of balls  when they get checked at the half time? Being that they both sat outside for   2 hours the time it took to play the first half I would guess they would both be the same temperature as the outdoor weather at half time and I believe it was about 50 degrees. So at 50 degrees under my scenario the Colts balls PSI would not change but the PATS PSI would drop because the internal air temp dropped 30 degrees. Does that make sense? [/quote] No. I mean, you can make up whatever facts you want to justify it. But opining that one team keeps their balls at 80* and the other at 50*, and that they're not in the ref's possession long enough to stabilize at the temp of the room in which they're tested.....that's not an argument, its just you making stuff up. [quote name="saevel25" url="/t/76052/are-you-ready-for-some-nfl-football-2014-edition/1368#post_1098762"] Oh really, only the NEP are allowed to cheat. Are they the only ones we talk about because they are the Patriots. It seems the common evidence, except the Patriots and the whole previous cheating on the Spygate, is the Colts. :whistle: [/quote] You really think its equally likely that the Colts and Patriots deflated the Patriots' balls, even though they were in the Patriots' exclusive possession and the condition of the balls favored the Pats? As the days go by the excuses get crazier and crazier. Its entirely possible that there's an explanation that doesn't include the Patriots cheating again, but its not the 2 hours the balls spent at 30,000 feet 2 days before they were tested or the Colts sneaking over to the Pats sideline to help the Patriots get a better grip on the ball.

[Golfingdad]

You should google and read up about the issue. Most of your comments are based on misunderstandings of the basic, agreed upon facts.

This is true, but I'd also submit that you guys (the executioners ;)) are playing too fast and loose with the "facts" seeing as how everything is still based on anonymous sources.

The NFL still hasn't made anything official so we don't REALLY know:

1. The exact procedure that the refs used before the game to measure.  (The biggie)
2. The PSI numbers of each set of balls before the game.
3. The PSI numbers of each set of balls when they measured later.

Absent that information, how can anybody conclude anything at this point?

[saevel25]

Absent that information, how can anybody conclude anything at this point?

Because they are the Patriots!!

[Golfingdad]

Because they are the Patriots!!

You're half joking, but you're also 100% correct.

Case in point, the Vikings/Panthers game from November 30th. http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings  (Yes, I know I've posted it before, as has @boogielicious , but its worth reminding)

I was actually mistaken when I mentioned the previous time I posted this that the NFL hadn't done anything.  They actually did.  They "reminded the teams on Monday that you shouldn't heat up the game balls."

So that's the extent of the caring from the NFL and elsewhere when it's not the Patriots ... "Hey, don't do that.  Cool? Now let's move on."  But involve Boston and it's a completely different story (even when the accusations aren't proven).  Puh-lease.

We should be talking about and getting excited for the Super Bowl, not talking about this nonsense.

[club ho]

The Balls were in possession of the refs until the game started. I have to assume you're joking when you suggest that someone snuck over to the Pats sideline in the middle of the game, unnoticed, and deflated altered the balls in a way that gave the Patriots an advantage.

You should google and read up about the issue. Most of your comments are based on misunderstandings of the basic, agreed upon facts.

No. I mean, you can make up whatever facts you want to justify it. But opining that one team keeps their balls at 80* and the other at 50*, and that they're not in the ref's possession long enough to stabilize at the temp of the room in which they're tested.....that's not an argument, its just you making stuff up.

You really think its equally likely that the Colts and Patriots deflated the Patriots' balls, even though they were in the Patriots' exclusive possession and the condition of the balls favored the Pats?

As the days go by the excuses get crazier and crazier. Its entirely possible that there's an explanation that doesn't include the Patriots cheating again, but its not the 2 hours the balls spent at 30,000 feet 2 days before they were tested or the Colts sneaking over to the Pats sideline to help the Patriots get a better grip on the ball.

If you have information on how long the balls were in the refs testing area before being tested please let me know. I would assume the balls are tested upon them being delivered as it is done prior to the game. If the balls are left in the same room for an extended amount of time then I would agree with you. If they were tested immediately after being delivered to the room then we need to know the temp of both Colts room and the Pats room do you agree?

It will only take a 20 degree difference to account for the deflation difference.

When did the Colts balls arrive in New England and where were they kept for 2 days? What was the temperature of the room they were stored in? All this information is critical . You seem to know please let us know.

BTW being at 30,000 ft is insignificant. That is your thought I never mentioned altitude as a factor.

[dsc123]

You're half joking, but you're also 100% correct.

Didn't you say that you think the Patriots probably cheated?  Even @boogielicious agreed that they probably cheated, he just doesn't think its a big deal.  So you're just raising possibilities as to how we could all be wrong.  We just differ in that I think an alternative explanation has a 10% chance of being true and you think its 45%.   We both reached the same conclusion on the same facts.

club ho seems to be the only person here, or that I've spoken with at all about this, who thinks the patriots complied with the spirit and letter of the rule.