The Official (Not Official At All) Drugs & Alcohol Thread

[Golfingdad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

BTW, I am a chronic over tipper ...

Let's keep it on topic, eh? ... Would you say you are "addicted" to tipping??

---

Speaking of drugs, I found this article to be pretty interesting: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/08/05/since-marijuana-legalization-highway-fatalities-in-colorado-are-at-near-historic-lows/

Mainly because it's just a lot of information, and the fact that he doesn't try to jump to any conclusions.  If anybody here knows anything about me, they know I like it when people don't jump to conclusions. ;)  Here's an excerpt:

Quote:

Of course, the continuing drop in roadway fatalities, in Colorado and elsewhere, is due to a variety of factors, such as better-built cars and trucks, improved safety features and better road engineering. These figures in and of themselves only indicate that the roads are getting safer; they don’t suggest that pot had anything to do with it. We’re also only seven months in. Maybe these figures will change. Finally, it’s also possible that if it weren’t for legal pot, the 2014 figures would be even lower. There’s no real way to know that. We can only look at the data available. But you can bet that if fatalities were up this year, prohibition supporters would be blaming it on legal marijuana. (Interestingly, though road fatalities have generally been falling in Colorado for a long time, 2013 actually saw a slight increase from 2012. So fatalities are down the year after legalization, after having gone up the year before.)

[zipazoid]

Just thought I'd nip it in the bud, Bubba.

Good. You brought it back to topic.

And I'm from Akron originally. About as far from being a Bubba as possible.

[Ernest Jones]

Let's keep it on topic, eh? ... Would you say you are "addicted" to tipping??

Probably. I feel extreme discomfort under tipping even for bad service. I also often tip in situations where it is not warranted nor expected. On the plus side, any bar I frequent provides me with excellent service and I get comped a lot of stuff, so I get it back in the end.

[jusanothajoe]

If drugs are made legal most addicts still will not have money to buy them. The theft and robbery to get money for drugs will not stop.

Ahh I can see it now 100 years from now children in the classrooms will be studying the last chapter of the history of the United States and what made it GREAT................................... Legalized Drugs !!

Wine is legal, so drugs should be - NOT

Heroin is no worse than wine - NOT (this one is actually ridiculous)

This country will be better off with legalized drugs - NOT

Drugs are not addicting - NOT

Legalizing drugs will lower crime - NOT

Etc., Etc., Etc. ,

Just because someone WANTS it legalized doesn't mean it's a good idea. Most people can justify stupid things when THEIR best interests are at heart.

Any one that has ever dealt with addiction and the troubles it brings would not want drugs readily available.

[Ernest Jones]

If drugs are made legal most addicts still will not have money to buy them. The theft and robbery to get money for drugs will not stop.

Ahh I can see it now 100 years from now children in the classrooms will be studying the last chapter of the history of the United States and what made it GREAT................................... Legalized Drugs !!

Wine is legal, so drugs should be - NOT

Heroin is no worse than wine - NOT (this one is actually ridiculous)

This country will be better off with legalized drugs - NOT

Drugs are not addicting - NOT

Legalizing drugs will lower crime - NOT

Etc., Etc., Etc. ,

Just because someone WANTS it legalized doesn't mean it's a good idea. Most people can justify stupid things when THEIR best interests are at heart.

Any one that has ever dealt with addiction and the troubles it brings would not want drugs readily available.

Just writing the word NOT at the end of a sentence in CAPS isn't really making a point.

[jusanothajoe]

Just writing the word NOT at the end of a sentence in CAPS isn't really making a point.

And your point is ?

[14ledo81]

If drugs are made legal most addicts still will not have money to buy them. The theft and robbery to get money for drugs will not stop.

Ahh I can see it now 100 years from now children in the classrooms will be studying the last chapter of the history of the United States and what made it GREAT................................... Legalized Drugs !!

Wine is legal, so drugs should be - NOT

Heroin is no worse than wine - NOT (this one is actually ridiculous)

This country will be better off with legalized drugs - NOT

Drugs are not addicting - NOT

Legalizing drugs will lower crime - NOT

Etc., Etc., Etc. ,

Just because someone WANTS it legalized doesn't mean it's a good idea. Most people can justify stupid things when THEIR best interests are at heart.

Any one that has ever dealt with addiction and the troubles it brings would not want drugs readily available.

I actually thought you made a good point here.  At least a valid point/argument.

But... then you kind of wrecked it with all the NOTs....  need some facts to back those statements up.

[Dave2512]

Living in CO and someone that's been inside posh dispensaries I can tell you people not having money to buy drugs isn't a problem. The dispensaries run out of weed here. You wait in a lobby sometimes 30 minutes just to get back to the room where you actually pick out what you want. The type of people you see in these places would surprise people here. Everything from dreadlocked kids to obviously wealthy people driving brand new high end cars. Some of these places are located in very well to do parts of town (Cherry Creek). You are offered complimentary soft drinks while you sit on expensive leather furniture watching big ass TV's. May even have a tray of pastries from some snooty bakery.

[zipazoid]

If drugs are made legal most addicts still will not have money to buy them. The theft and robbery to get money for drugs will not stop.

Ahh I can see it now 100 years from now children in the classrooms will be studying the last chapter of the history of the United States and what made it GREAT................................... Legalized Drugs !!

Wine is legal, so drugs should be - NOT

Heroin is no worse than wine - NOT (this one is actually ridiculous)

This country will be better off with legalized drugs - NOT

Drugs are not addicting - NOT

Legalizing drugs will lower crime - NOT

Etc., Etc., Etc. ,

Just because someone WANTS it legalized doesn't mean it's a good idea. Most people can justify stupid things when THEIR best interests are at heart.

Any one that has ever dealt with addiction and the troubles it brings would not want drugs readily available.

There's been a number of salient points expressed for the legalization of some drugs. And for my specific response, I will say only pot -

You didn't touch on the cost of incarceration. The cost of building prisons. The human cost of labeling someone a convicted felon over a drug charge.

To you other points, and this has already been pointed out, but it certainly bears repeating: You have not backed up any of your statements with data. I will take one example - you don't think legalizing pot won't reduce crime? Of course it would reduce crime since it decriminalizes the possession & use of it. In the stroke of a pen (or the passing of a law), crime immediately goes down since what was a criminal activity is no longer.

Sticking with pot - how many "crimes" do you think are caused by potheads? You really think they're knocking over liquor stores to score a bag? We have two active examples right now of this in action - Washington & Colorado. It's legal there. Check their crime statistics.

Or, NOT.

[jusanothajoe]

There's been a number of salient points expressed for the legalization of some drugs. And for my specific response, I will say only pot -

You didn't touch on the cost of incarceration. The cost of building prisons. The human cost of labeling someone a convicted felon over a drug charge.

To you other points, and this has already been pointed out, but it certainly bears repeating: You have not backed up any of your statements with data. I will take one example - you don't think legalizing pot won't reduce crime? Of course it would reduce crime since it decriminalizes the possession & use of it. In the stroke of a pen (or the passing of a law), crime immediately goes down since what was a criminal activity is no longer.

Sticking with pot - how many "crimes" do you think are caused by potheads? You really think they're knocking over liquor stores to score a bag? We have two active examples right now of this in action - Washington & Colorado. It's legal there. Check their crime statistics.

Or, NOT.

You made a good point about the reduction of crime. I didn't think about the arrests for possession. But that is not the crime I was talking about. Where I live addicts will strip the copper from church AC units, and from new houses being built. Will admit these may not be pot heads. Also will admit I put the NOTS in for effect, and it seems they were effective. But I need no facts to back up my points. I lived it, I have seen the effects first hand, I have seen how far someone will go to get high. Not because they were addicted, because they wanted too. I also know people that smoke pot everyday, but heck there probably not addicted. I see no need to legalize any more drugs, already got the new scourge of prescription pain killers.

[phan52]

You made a good point about the reduction of crime. I didn't think about the arrests for possession. But that is not the crime I was talking about. Where I live addicts will strip the copper from church AC units, and from new houses being built. Will admit these may not be pot heads. Also will admit I put the NOTS in for effect, and it seems they were effective. But I need no facts to back up my points. I lived it, I have seen the effects first hand, I have seen how far someone will go to get high. Not because they were addicted, because they wanted too. I also know people that smoke pot everyday, but heck there probably not addicted. I see no need to legalize any more drugs, already got the new scourge of prescription pain killers.

You have tried to make it sound like illegal drugs are not readily available as we speak, and that legalization will all of a sudden create a new explosive, dangerous drug culture. NOT!!

Facts in other countries where drugs have been legalized bear that out, BTW.

[Ernest Jones]

But I need no facts to back up my points.

That is why your opinion and stated position bears no weight. It's a moo point.

[jusanothajoe]

That is why your opinion and stated position bears no weight. It's a moo point.

HA HA HA HA !     NOT !

And your point is ?

[RJH999]

That is why your opinion and stated position bears no weight. It's a moo point. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/103540/] [/URL]

He finds himself in a Catch-23 situation...

[jusanothajoe]

Are there trees in your utopian worlds ?

So................ The legalization of mind altering drugs will make this a better country ?

And I will say it again, I need no facts too back up my feeling on drugs. I only need to look back at the hell they have put my family and many other families thru.

The devastation drugs cause now is not because they aren't legal !

[Ernest Jones]

And your point is ?

I thought that my point was fairly obvious. Allow me to restate it. Your refusal to offer any kind of factual evidence to back up your points, renders your points invalid. I'm not even necessarily going to say that you're wrong, I'm just not going to take any of your points into consideration because you haven't done the necessary work to back them up with anything other than BECAUSE I SAY SO.

If I had any interest in formulating a rebuttal I would probably just go with, "Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope." That would have just as much substance as your points and be just as valid.

In any case, I'm done with this thread as it seems to have reached the point where it'll just become circular with neither side conceding nor learning much more. Toss it on the pile with the Jack vs Tiger, Is it OK to be religious, and CCW threads.

Nice fish BTW.

[jusanothajoe]

I thought that my point was fairly obvious. Allow me to restate it. Your refusal to offer any kind of factual evidence to back up your points, renders your points invalid. I'm not even necessarily going to say that you're wrong, I'm just not going to take any of your points into consideration because you haven't done the necessary work to back them up with anything other than BECAUSE I SAY SO.

If I had any interest in formulating a rebuttal I would probably just go with, "Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope." That would have just as much substance as your points and be just as valid.

In any case, I'm done with this thread as it seems to have reached the point where it'll just become circular with neither side conceding nor learning much more. Toss it on the pile with the Jack vs Tiger, Is it OK to be religious, and CCW threads.

Nice fish BTW.

Thanks, Redfish 35 lbs.

[Ernest Jones]

Thanks, Redfish 35 lbs.

35 lbs? Holy smokes (the legal kind ), nice catch.