The Official (Not Official At All) Drugs & Alcohol Thread

[newtogolf]

When I was 15, I was fortunate enough to go to Japan for an all-star baseball tournament (1989 for those counting).  The cities had vending machines right on the street with beer in them.  You can imagine how shocking something like that was to an American kid.  Based on our culture, you're thinking to yourself how come everybody isn't drunk all of the time???

I've never been to Japan but was to Amsterdam a few times.  It's sad that our country touts all the freedom we have, except when it comes to sex and drugs (alcohol included).  I'm still amazed that an 18 year old can carry a gun and die for his country but not buy a beer.

[jamo]

Don't know about that, but drug users are in the same category as dumbasses

Says ... you? Or they're people who want different things out of their lives than you want out of yours.

[Golfingdad]

Don't know about that, but drug users are in the same category as dumbasses

Says ... you?

Or they're people who want different things out of their lives than you want out of yours.

Actually, he's right about that.  Check it out:

Categories:

Humans                Big Cats                       Office Supplies

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Golfers                   Cougars                         Staples

Dumbasses            Tigers                            Paper

Cougars                  Lions                             Coffee

Drug Users             Jaguars                         Drugs

Oddly enough, there are cougars in two different categories.  And for their sake, I hope the drug users all have office jobs. ;)

[newtogolf]

Says ... you?

Or they're people who want different things out of their lives than you want out of yours.

I'd wager that the majority of drug addicts out there aren't upstanding, productive or happy people unless they are stoned.  I know a few recovering alcoholics and drug addicts and none set out to be addicts it just happened and as a result their lives were ruined.

[jamo]

I'd wager that the majority of drug addicts out there aren't upstanding, productive or happy people unless they are stoned.  I know a few recovering alcoholics and drug addicts and none set out to be addicts it just happened and as a result their lives were ruined.

He didn't say "addicts" though, he said "drug users." Otherwise I'm with you.

[newtogolf]

He didn't say "addicts" though, he said "drug users." Otherwise I'm with you.

That's fair, it's just depending on the drug, it's not easy to be a user and not turn into an addict.  I'm dealing with an employee now that's addicted to oxy, it's a nightmare for everyone.

[RandallT]

Perhaps OT but this article demonstrates to me the overreach of the federal government in prosecuting the so-called War on Drugs: http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/08/more-on-the-deas-war-on-synthetic-drugs It just seems more like harassment and arrogance of power. I'm not advocating what the woman is selling, but it seems like a local law enforcement issue. There may not even be a law being broken apparently!!!

[MS256]

Just be glad that our "War on drugs" is a fairly half-hearted war at best.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/blog/0801/7-countries-you-dont-want-to-get-caught-with-drugs-in/

[Phil McGleno]

How many of you supporting legalization of all kinds of drugs would support: - Babies born addicted to drugs because the mother took them. - Someone doing drugs in the morning and driving a busload of kids to school. - Someone doing drugs and being an air traffic controller. - Someone doing drugs and doing all kinds of jobs. Make drugs legal and more people will do drugs.-I get not criminalizing things that dont affect others but drugs do affect others.-Just like alcohol.-So do you treat it like booze-Legal to buy but SEVERE penalties if youre caught abusing it-Or what? What is legalization and what does it mean? Also isnt CO spending a lot of money still monitoring the new pot trade?

[Aguirre]

How many of you supporting legalization of all kinds of drugs would support:

- Babies born addicted to drugs because the mother took them.

- Someone doing drugs in the morning and driving a busload of kids to school.

- Someone doing drugs and being an air traffic controller.

- Someone doing drugs and doing all kinds of jobs.

Make drugs legal and more people will do drugs.-I get not criminalizing things that dont affect others but drugs do affect others.-Just like alcohol.-So do you treat it like booze-Legal to buy but SEVERE penalties if youre caught abusing it-Or what? What is legalization and what does it mean?

Also isnt CO spending a lot of money still monitoring the new pot trade?

Statistically, the legalization of drugs has shown a decrease in addiction.  When it's not stigmatized, people will more often get help if they have a problem.  As far as usage is concerned, I couldn't care less.  What people choose to put in their own body isn't any of my business.  And it certainly isn't the governments.

But your examples aren't relevant because nobody is making the case that a drunk or high person using any type of drug (including something like Ambien) should put others at risk.  Are you under the bizarre (and completely incorrect) assumption that anti-prohibitionists think it's okay to get high and drive a school bus?  Please.

[Abu3baid]

Statistically, the legalization of drugs has shown a decrease in addiction.

I would love to see the study in which Heroin / Cocaine / Acid / Mushrooms / Crack was legalized and the statistics that show the analysis of the addiction rates before and after legalization..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguirre

When it's not stigmatized, people will more often get help if they have a problem.

Sorry, not buying it.. Once you use aforementioned drugs you have a problem.. As far as stigmatization, the medical community has gone out of its way to categorize alcohol abuse as a disease (so as to remove the stigma of being a drunk) and the rate of people who go sober is dismal at best.. Just look at the AA success rate of around 30% best case scenario and 5% at worst case!  Your statement above is more like wishful thinking than fact in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguirre

As far as usage is concerned, I couldn't care less.  What people choose to put in their own body isn't any of my business.  And it certainly isn't the governments.

I don't care either if people want to get high on what ever as long as they stay the $% @# away from me. . In terms of government, what I do want them to do is to ensure that none of these hard core drugs are available via CVS pharmacy..  Instead of removing the stigma that will force people to get cleaned up, what would happen if it is legalized is that you would be removing the stigma of the fact that you are a moron if you do drugs.. any kind of drug that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguirre

But your examples aren't relevant because nobody is making the case that a drunk or high person using any type of drug (including something like Ambien) should put others at risk.  Are you under the bizarre (and completely incorrect) assumption that anti-prohibitionists think it's okay to get high and drive a school bus?  Please.

Fine.. not a bus.. however drunk drivers still kill people by the handful on a weekly basis and I think it is already pretty well documented that drunk driving kills people.. They still do it.. So even if Phil is using an extreme example, I think his point comes through none the less!

[newtogolf]

How many of you supporting legalization of all kinds of drugs would support:

- Babies born addicted to drugs because the mother took them.

- Someone doing drugs in the morning and driving a busload of kids to school.

- Someone doing drugs and being an air traffic controller.

- Someone doing drugs and doing all kinds of jobs.

Make drugs legal and more people will do drugs.-I get not criminalizing things that dont affect others but drugs do affect others.-Just like alcohol.-So do you treat it like booze-Legal to buy but SEVERE penalties if youre caught abusing it-Or what? What is legalization and what does it mean?

Also isnt CO spending a lot of money still monitoring the new pot trade?

I don't support any of the examples you listed, but they already occur today.  The question is would drug legalization increase or reduce the incidents.  Law would be simple, do whatever you want in your home, but when at work or on the roads, you have to be sober or face severe penalties.

[Abu3baid]

I don't support any of the examples you listed, but they already occur today.  The question is would drug legalization increase or reduce the incidents.  Law would be simple, do whatever you want in your home, but when at work or on the roads, you have to be sober or face severe penalties.

Uhhh.. You don't believe that.. Unless what you are saying is that the penalties are not harsh enough for drunk driving for example.. When I questioned the percentage decrease in incidents if the penalty for drunk drive killing was the death penalty I was laughed at and told that there is no correlation between the penalty and what people do, since they don't think the will kill anyone if they drive, because it won't happen to them.. Either case, I have to admitnibam surprised at the here number of people on TST supporting drug use, but hey as long as it is not them and as long as the users agree to donut in their own home... Yeah, right! Although I don't believe that it is a representation of the rest of the population as I'm sure I surveyed a high percentage of people would say drugs are bad don't legalize!

[newtogolf]

Uhhh.. You don't believe that.. Unless what you are saying is that the penalties are not harsh enough for drunk driving for example..

When I questioned the percentage decrease in incidents if the penalty for drunk drive killing was the death penalty I was laughed at and told that there is no correlation between the penalty and what people do, since they don't think the will kill anyone if they drive, because it won't happen to them..

Either case, I have to admitnibam surprised at the here number of people on TST supporting drug use, but hey as long as it is not them and as long as the users agree to donut in their own home... Yeah, right! Although I don't believe that it is a representation of the rest of the population as I'm sure I surveyed a high percentage of people would say drugs are bad don't legalize!

There is a correlation between penalties and what sane people do.  I don't drink often but I never drink if I'm driving.  Most people that do drink and drive either believe they aren't too drunk to drive and the chances of them getting pulled over are minimal.  They never consider the worst case, they get into an accident.  In my opinion, law enforcement should sitting in key areas where there is a high concentration of bars and set up check points.  Once people realize the risk of getting caught is greater, they will change their behaviors.

For the record, I don't support drug use, I support the government taxing drug users so that all the money that goes to treatment and rehab (which is paid for by hardworking taxpayers) can be at least partially funded by the users that need the treatment.

[Grndslmhttr3]

I would love to see the study in which Heroin / Cocaine / Acid / Mushrooms / Crack was legalized and the statistics that show the analysis of the addiction rates before and after legalization..

LSD and mushrooms aren't addictive, and there have been many studies done on LSD that suggest positive effects to mental health.

[Abu3baid]

LSD and mushrooms aren't addictive, and there have been many studies done on LSD that suggest positive effects to mental health.

Well.. I'd love to hear more about these so called mental health benefits for sure! Plus if you could cite a few of these many studies it would be great!

[jusanothajoe]

LSD and mushrooms aren't addictive, and there have been many studies done on LSD that suggest positive effects to mental health.

So you need to be crazy too start with if you are going to use drugs. I agree

[jamo]

Either case, I have to admitnibam surprised at the here number of people on TST supporting drug use, but hey as long as it is not them and as long as the users agree to donut in their own home... Yeah, right! Although I don't believe that it is a representation of the rest of the population as I'm sure I surveyed a high percentage of people would say drugs are bad don't legalize!

Straight from Gallup: http://www.gallup.com/poll/165539/first-time-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx