What if someone else hits your ball?

[Slice of Life]

The rules are not at fault for slow play, uneducated golfers are the fault.  I play by the rules and I play fast, as do most of the guys I play with.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Yep. I got paired up with two older guys this week and we played 18 by the rules in about 3 hours.

[smaug81243]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You make assumptions which may or may not apply in a given case.  The OP states that they were playing on a relatively empty course and did nothing to hold up play for anyone else.

It is irrelevant whether the course was empty or completely packed. If you are going a rule such as this one 100% of the time there are plenty of times in which you will add 10 minutes to a round to walk back to the tee, hit and repeat the process in the fairway.

Quote:

The rules are not at fault for slow play, uneducated golfers are the fault.  I play by the rules and I play fast, as do most of the guys I play with.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

My understanding is that rounds on the PGA tour are not particularly fast. Are they uneducated golfers as well? Sure, they are playing for lots of money but they certainly aren't uneducated in regards to golf.

Quote:

The rules are based on certain fundamental principles which have been the foundation for the game for 400 years.  The USGA and R&A; shy away from any modifications which weaken those principles beyond what is absolutely necessary to allow the player to play the game.

What would have happened to the US constitution had we left it as it is rather than amend it over time? Just because you created the game/rules/government does not mean that you were able to create rules that were ideal 400 years later. As society changes (into courses that are regularly packed on weekends) and complaints of slow play arise it is foolish to make small modifications. Based on your argument we should still be using the exact same equipment that golf began with.

Quote:

The rules are not at fault for slow play, uneducated golfers are the fault.  I play by the rules and I play fast, as do most of the guys I play with.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

I agree that the rules are not the primary cause for slow play but do believe rules such as this one contribute to the problem. However, as noted by my comments about the PGA tour above, I believe placing the blame on uneducated golfers is foolish. A better fault for slow play is simply poor golfers. If you hack the ball around on your way to shooting 30, 40, 50 over par it's going to take some time. Even if you know all of the rules, and don't take much time with each shot.

I appreciate the change in tone. A debate is much more conducive to a positive and interesting forum.

[iacas]

It is irrelevant whether the course was empty or completely packed. If you are going a rule such as this one 100% of the time there are plenty of times in which you will add 10 minutes to a round to walk back to the tee, hit and repeat the process in the fairway.

If only there was a solution… a simple, easy one, like "mark your ball so that you can identify it"… Hmmmmm… Darnit! Maybe someone will come up with something…

What would have happened to the US constitution had we left it as it is rather than amend it over time? Just because you created the game/rules/government does not mean that you were able to create rules that were ideal 400 years later.

I feel as though you're not understanding something.

To change that rule you'd be altering the very principles that lie at the foundation of the Rules of Golf.

The equivalent in the Constitution might be to throw out the parts about all men being created equal, and letting someone declare themselves King of the United States of America or something.

That rule is fundamental to the Rules of Golf. It's part of the foundation upon which the rules are based, because it's so closely tied to the very small number of principles.

Based on your argument we should still be using the exact same equipment that golf began with.

On the contrary, the Rules of Golf have changed and do change, much like the laws of the United States. What they do NOT do is disregard or change in such a way that they are in opposition of the fundamental principles.

[smaug81243]

If only there was a solution… a simple, easy one, like "mark your ball so that you can identify it"… Hmmmmm… Darnit! Maybe someone will come up with something…

5/5 Made me laugh! I agree, simple solution that solves the problem but in this case a man who apparently follows the rules very closely had not marked his ball. I'm sure it will happen again with another individual.

I feel as though you're not understanding something.

To change that rule you'd be altering the very principles that lie at the foundation of the Rules of Golf.

The equivalent in the Constitution might be to throw out the parts about all men being created equal, and letting someone declare themselves King of the United States of America or something.

That rule is fundamental to the Rules of Golf. It's part of the foundation upon which the rules are based, because it's so closely tied to the very small number of principles.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. Modifying that rule to something along the lines of: Play the ball furthest from the hole or play the ball with the worse lie/worse situation is not anywhere close to the same magnitude as allowing a King of the United States of America in my mind.

On a side note, thanks for the content in the lowest score wins/videos you have posted here. They have helped me a lot and helped take me from complete hacker to the ability to get the ball airborne (usually)/moving forward :D

[iacas]

We will have to agree to disagree on this. Modifying that rule to something along the lines of: Play the ball furthest from the hole or play the ball with the worse lie/worse situation is not anywhere close to the same magnitude as allowing a King of the United States of America in my mind.

There's no need to agree to disagree. You're wrong. Changing the rule would violate the principles that form the foundation of the Rules of Golf. Namely, play your ball as it lies. If you don't know which ball is yours, you can't do that. That much is fact…

The opinion part is this: the Rule is much simpler - and better - as it is currently written, particularly given the simple solution: mark your golf ball.

On a side note, thanks for the content in the lowest score wins/videos you have posted here. They have helped me a lot and helped take me from complete hacker to the ability to get the ball airborne (usually)/moving forward :D

Great. Thank you.

[smaug81243]

There's no need to agree to disagree. You're wrong. Changing the rule would violate the principles that form the foundation of the Rules of Golf. Namely, play your ball as it lies. If you don't know which ball is yours, you can't do that. That much is fact…

The opinion part is this: the Rule is much simpler - and better - as it is currently written, particularly given the simple solution: mark your golf ball.

Subtlety has never been your strong suit! But, like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. If you know your ball is one of the two and you intentionally take the worse lie/position you gain nothing. I believe that is a more reasonable (and saves time) solution than the current rule of reteeing. Perhaps i'm too young and too new to golf to value the tradition of golf as heavily as you. And to reiterate again, I agree the solution makes it irrelevant but for some reason I see it happening again in the future.

[Flav]

May or may not happen again. Hasn't ever marked his ball. We did mention that to him. Maybe he will now no matter the circumstances. Me I normally have all mine marked with a big smiley face. Nothing better than smacking the smile off it. Just happened to have a basically empty course and all three of us where using different brands so we didn't think twice about it. Mine were basically marked as they were those funny custom logo balls you can buy as gifts. Haven't lost one in the water yet as "I can't swim" is stamped on them. Funny gift from the wifey.

[Golfingdad]

Subtlety has never been your strong suit! But, like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. If you know your ball is one of the two and you intentionally take the worse lie/position you gain nothing. I believe that is a more reasonable (and saves time) solution than the current rule of reteeing. Perhaps i'm too young and too new to golf to value the tradition of golf as heavily as you. And to reiterate again, I agree the solution makes it irrelevant but for some reason I see it happening again in the future.

Sorry, but Erik is right.  While I may agree with you that while I'm playing a casual round and this happens (it would have to be late in the round after I've lost a few and started playing with one I found and was too lazy to mark it) I'd probably play it like you are talking about ... I completely disagree that the rule needs to be changed to accomodate our laziness or stupidity.  That is beyond unnecessary.

[mvmac]

He's a bit of a stickler for the rules, which none of us mind, so he wouldn't just hit it.

Weird that the guy is a rules stickler but doesn't mark his ball.

Perhaps i'm too young and too new to golf to value the tradition of golf as heavily as you. And to reiterate again, I agree the solution makes it irrelevant but for some reason I see it happening again in the future.

It's more about playing by the rules that "valuing" the tradition of the game.

You can feel however you want about the rule but it is the simplest and more clear way to go about things. Seems like a natural consequence to me for not doing something as simple as marking your ball.

[smaug81243]

Although I still believe it would be a reasonable rule change, I do like these arguments:

Seems like a natural consequence to me for not doing something as simple as marking your ball.

On another side note, what on earth is going on with my picture. I definitely didn't set it up to be anything. Is the default barney just to get people to change it? Note to self, change it when I get home tonight :D

[Slice of Life]

You can feel however you want about the rule but it is the simplest and more clear way to go about things. Seems like a natural consequence to me for not doing something as simple as marking your ball.

I never mark my ball. I just assume that the odds of someone hitting the same ball/number in the same place as I hit mine are slim to none.

That, and I lose too many balls to spend that much time marking them.

[iacas]

But, like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. If you know your ball is one of the two and you intentionally take the worse lie/position you gain nothing.

And what if the other guy does that, and leaves you with the ball in the better position? Right there is an instant problem with your proposed solution, and there are others too.

In a casual round, if someone wants to do that, I don't really care. I wouldn't even care if they posted it to GHIN for their handicap.

I completely disagree that the rule needs to be changed to accomodate our laziness or stupidity.  That is beyond unnecessary.

Yup.

That, and I lose too many balls to spend that much time marking them.

If you ever start, let me know. I'd like to buy stock in Sharpie. :D

[smaug81243]

And what if the other guy does that, and leaves you with the ball in the better position? Right there is an instant problem with your proposed solution, and there are others too.

In a casual round, if someone wants to do that, I don't really care. I wouldn't even care if they posted it to GHIN for their handicap.

A procedure similar to drops for water could be used. Drop in the exact location of where the other ball was or in a direct line behind it as far back as you would like to go, no closer to the hole of course. I'm sure there are other issues with my proposed change (that will never happen, yes, I recognize this) but I doubt that they couldn't be solved relatively easily.

[Slice of Life]

A procedure similar to drops for water could be used. Drop in the exact location of where the other ball was or in a direct line behind it as far back as you would like to go, no closer to the hole of course. I'm sure there are other issues with my proposed change (that will never happen, yes, I recognize this) but I doubt that they couldn't be solved relatively easily.

They could. Mark your ball, or re-tee and take the penalty. Easy solutions!

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

There's no need to agree to disagree. You're wrong. Changing the rule would violate the principles that form the foundation of the Rules of Golf. Namely, play your ball as it lies. If you don't know which ball is yours, you can't do that. That much is fact…

The opinion part is this: the Rule is much simpler - and better - as it is currently written, particularly given the simple solution: mark your golf ball.

Subtlety has never been your strong suit! But, like I said, we will have to agree to disagree. If you know your ball is one of the two and you intentionally take the worse lie/position you gain nothing. I believe that is a more reasonable (and saves time) solution than the current rule of reteeing. Perhaps i'm too young and too new to golf to value the tradition of golf as heavily as you. And to reiterate again, I agree the solution makes it irrelevant but for some reason I see it happening again in the future.

Why do you continue to resist the simplest solution?  Carry a Sharpie and put your initials on the ball.  Takes 5 seconds and eliminates any question, as well as eliminating any need to change a rule or modify a basic principle of the game.

The 2 most fundamental principles of golf are that you play the course as you find it; and you play your ball from the tee, and you don't move it or touch it until you lift it from the hole.  The rules allow for deviation from those principles only in such a way as to allow the golfer to play the game, and such necessary deviations are only made to be as minimal as is possible.  All of the rules are built on and evolved from that very basic foundation.  When the solution is to mark your ball for positive identification, there is absolutely no reason to change the basic principle that you play your own ball from tee to hole.

Once again, it comes down to education.  Simple things like marking one's ball with an identifying mark and playing a provisional ball when one hits to a questionable location will go a long way toward eliminating long delays while still allowing play by the rules of golf.

And to answer your other question, Tour players rarely even attempt to use any of the simple procedures that allow for better pace of play.  They don't play ready golf; they often have lengthy and convoluted shot routines; they take the full 5 minutes allowed under the rules for ball searches on the occasions when a search is necessary.  Most PGA Tour players are the absolutely worst possible role models for good pace of play.

[Golfingdad]

Why do you continue to resist the simplest solution?  Carry a Sharpie and put your initials on the ball.  Takes 5 seconds and eliminates any question, as well as eliminating any need to change a rule or modify a basic principle of the game.

QFT

[turtleback]

A procedure similar to drops for water could be used. Drop in the exact location of where the other ball was or in a direct line behind it as far back as you would like to go, no closer to the hole of course. I'm sure there are other issues with my proposed change (that will never happen, yes, I recognize this) but I doubt that they couldn't be solved relatively easily.

We should not take something that is not a problem and make it into a problem just because it might be an easy problem to solve.

While the rules do not require you to mark your ball, they do require that you be able to identify it.  If you cannot identify your ball it is a lost ball.  What could simpler or more problem free?

[David in FL]

Why do you continue to resist the simplest solution?  Carry a Sharpie and put your initials on the ball.  Takes 5 seconds and eliminates any question, as well as eliminating any need to change a rule or modify a basic principle of the game.

Yet another case of wanting to change the rules to accommodate someone's unwillingness to follow the simple rule that's already in place to prevent the situation described......