Putting miss on the high side!?

[dchoye]

Yes it is, unless you are talking about with in a couple of inches the shorter putt is the easier putt to make.

I think there are posters here that would say a 8 foot straight uphill putt might be easier than a 5 foot sidehiller that breaks 1 foot

[saevel25]

I think there are posters here that would say a 8 foot straight uphill putt might be easier than a 5 foot sidehiller that breaks 1 foot

Doesn't really matter.

A straight up hill putt at 8 feet, you have +/- 1.27 degrees of error, depending on your speed.

A side hill breaking putt, you do have to get the break correct so that adds in a bit of error. Still, you got +/- 2.1 degrees of error.

Still PTA Tour players make 52% from 8 feet, and 80% from 5 feet. I am not sure how much chance of making changes by how much break you have. I don't think 1 foot break at 8 feet is worth 25-30% difference between the two distances.

[billchao]

I think there are posters here that would say a 8 foot straight uphill putt might be easier than a 5 foot sidehiller that breaks 1 foot

I think most people dislike sidehill putts because they just don't know how to read them right. No chance to get the ball in the hole if the read is wrong. Assuming the read is right, then all you're doing is hitting the line at the right speed, which makes it a five foot stroke vs an eight foot (or longer, because of the uphill) stroke. Shorter stroke is easier to control.

[David in FL]

I think most people dislike sidehill putts because they just don't know how to read them right. No chance to get the ball in the hole if the read is wrong. Assuming the read is right, then all you're doing is hitting the line at the right speed, which makes it a five foot stroke vs an eight foot (or longer, because of the uphill) stroke. Shorter stroke is easier to control.

By that same argument, a downhill putt should be preferable to the equivalent uphill putt. Most people would disagree with that though.... Of course, if "all" you have to do is hit the right line at the right speed, they're all easy. ;-)

[billchao]

By that same argument, a downhill putt should be preferable to the equivalent uphill putt. Most people would disagree with that though.... Of course, if "all" you have to do is hit the right line at the right speed, they're all easy. ;-)

Well yea, I actually said just that about myself earlier in the thread. Most people also accelerate too much in the stroke, too, so that may be why they prefer the uphill putt to the downhill putt. I have the opposite tendency. I'm more likely to make the downhill putt because I just let the ball roll down the hill, but I tend to leave uphill putts short.

[David in FL]

Well yea, I actually said just that about myself earlier in the thread. Most people also accelerate too much in the stroke, too, so that may be why they prefer the uphill putt to the downhill putt. I have the opposite tendency. I'm more likely to make the downhill putt because I just let the ball roll down the hill, but I tend to leave uphill putts short.

I don't know of a single good player that would prefer a significantly downhill putt to the same putt up the hill. Significantly downhill putts often have to be struck so easily that they can easily be forced off line by the smallest imperfection. I'm guess there may be people that prefer downhill putts, but in my experience, they're going to be a significant minority.

[billchao]

Significantly downhill putts often have to be struck so easily that they can easily be forced off line by the smallest imperfection.

That doesn't jive with what I understand about putting. [quote name="iacas" url="/t/77292/putting-miss-on-the-high-side/30#post_1058410"] Another way to look at it: [LIST] [*] Downhill putts require a smaller stroke, so you're more likely to hit your line. [*] Uphill putts punish misdirected putts more. Consider a straight putt. If you push it to the right lip on a downhill putt, it will still go in because downhill will "straighten it out." The uphill putt can miss by several inches because it keeps pushing the ball away. [/LIST] [/quote]

[Golfingdad]

That doesn't jive with what I understand about putting.

Those are different things.  Erik is referring to imperfections in the stroke, Dave is talking about imperfections in the grass.  Downhill putts are easier to get going the direction you want them to, however, they would be more susceptible to bouncing around randomly because they're barely moving.

If we're talking about equal length putts, I'll take the uphill one - as most would.  If we're talking about different length putts, I'll usually take the shorter one.  (Unless we're talking about a severa difference in break - then it just depends)

[David in FL]

Those are different things.  Erik is referring to imperfections in the stroke, Dave is talking about imperfections in the grass.  Downhill putts are easier to get going the direction you want them to, however, they would be more susceptible to bouncing around randomly because they're barely moving. If we're talking about equal length putts, I'll take the uphill one - as most would.  If we're talking about different length putts, I'll usually take the shorter one.  (Unless we're talking about a severa difference in break - then it just depends)

I'd also add that speed tends to be easier to judge uphill. Most people are much more likely to run a missed downhill putt a lot further past the hole, than they will an equivalent uphill putt.

[Golfingdad]

I'd also add that speed tends to be easier to judge uphill. Most people are much more likely to run a missed downhill putt a lot further past the hole, than they will an equivalent uphill putt.

Yeah, I don't think it's so much that it's easier to judge, it's just that the variation in distance the ball will travel is a lot greater when you only have to tap it than when you have to rap it.  It's so much easier to 2 putt on slower greens, and likewise, putting uphill.

[billchao]

Those are different things.  Erik is referring to imperfections in the stroke, Dave is talking about imperfections in the grass.  Downhill putts are easier to get going the direction you want them to, however, they would be more susceptible to bouncing around randomly because they're barely moving.

But then uphill putts are more susceptible to errors in your stroke. What affects the ball more? Probably can't say definitively. [quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/77292/putting-miss-on-the-high-side/30#post_1059296"]If we're talking about equal length putts, I'll take the uphill one - as most would. [/quote]And I'll happily remain in the minority, as with most things about my golf game :-D

[David in FL]

But then uphill putts are more susceptible to errors in your stroke. What affects the ball more? Probably can't say definitively.

Most players would much rather deal with things they can control, and upon which they can improve, over those that they cannot.

[mvmac]

It's not always the shorter putt that is the easiest

The closer you can get to the hole, whether the putt is uphill, downhill, sidehill, the more putts you'll make. Obviously we're not talking about a few inches closer.

I think there are posters here that would say a 8 foot straight uphill putt might be easier than a 5 foot sidehiller that breaks 1 foot

And they would be wrong

I would prefer to be 3ft closer to the hole.

[dchoye]

Doesn't really matter.

A straight up hill putt at 8 feet, you have +/- 1.27 degrees of error, depending on your speed.

A side hill breaking putt, you do have to get the break correct so that adds in a bit of error. Still, you got +/- 2.1 degrees of error.

Still PTA Tour players make 52% from 8 feet, and 80% from 5 feet. I am not sure how much chance of making changes by how much break you have. I don't think 1 foot break at 8 feet is worth 25-30% difference between the two distances.

Doesn't really matter.

A straight up hill putt at 8 feet, you have +/- 1.27 degrees of error, depending on your speed.

A side hill breaking putt, you do have to get the break correct so that adds in a bit of error. Still, you got +/- 2.1 degrees of error.

Still PTA Tour players make 52% from 8 feet, and 80% from 5 feet. I am not sure how much chance of making changes by how much break you have. I don't think 1 foot break at 8 feet is worth 25-30% difference between the two distances.

thanks for the stats. but I go with how confident my putting is that day.

I know I will have an easier putting day if I have 18 straight uphill eight footers than try to hole out 18  six inches to one foot breaking putts from 4-7 feet of varying R-->L and L--->R  breakers

[Golfingdad]

Most players would much rather deal with things they can control, and upon which they can improve, over those that they cannot.

Exactly. I "want the ball in my hand with the game on the line" ... So to speak.

[iacas]

thanks for the stats. but I go with how confident my putting is that day.

I know I will have an easier putting day if I have 18 straight uphill eight footers than try to hole out 18  six inches to one foot breaking putts from 4-7 feet of varying R-->L and L--->R  breakers

@dchoye , you believe a lot of things that, generally speaking, are completely wrong. One or two, sure. They may apply to you, but the odds of you being the exception to each of them are incredibly small. You should really buy Lowest Score Wins . Not just about this putting stuff, but about all kinds of things. It's something a few of us have noticed, and while one or two of them may be true for your game, again, the odds of you being the exception to all of them is simply not gonna happen.

The book has a chart in which we tested 2000 putts hit by various skill levels of golfers. Half were uphill putts from 6', (within 45° or so from straight on the low side of the hole), half were hit sidehill/downhill from 3'.

The sidehill/downhill 3' putts were made well over 30% more of the time than the uphill putts.

If you keep the separation at three feet, the numbers get closer as you get farther out, but they never cross: in general, it's never easier to make the uphill putt than a sidehill/downhill putt that's 3' closer.

[dchoye]

@dchoye, you believe a lot of things that, generally speaking, are completely wrong. One or two, sure. They may apply to you, but the odds of you being the exception to each of them are incredibly small. You should really buy Lowest Score Wins. Not just about this putting stuff, but about all kinds of things. It's something a few of us have noticed, and while one or two of them may be true for your game, again, the odds of you being the exception to all of them is simply not gonna happen.

The book has a chart in which we tested 2000 putts hit by various skill levels of golfers. Half were uphill putts from 6', (within 45° or so from straight on the low side of the hole), half were hit sidehill/downhill from 3'.

The sidehill/downhill 3' putts were made well over 30% more of the time than the uphill putts.

If you keep the separation at three feet, the numbers get closer as you get farther out, but they never cross: in general, it's never easier to make the uphill putt than a sidehill/downhill putt that's 3' closer.

Are you saying that breaking 3' foot putts are  made 30% more often than 3' foot uphill putts?

That is not from my experience, straight uphill putts are easier to make.

The club I belong to , the greenskeeper will have trouble keeping his job if he places the pin location on a breaking ridge.

There's usually an unwritten rule that the hole location should have a flat portion 2-3 feet surrounding the hole, otherwise putting will become a joke,

[Golfingdad]

Are you saying that breaking 3' foot putts are  made 30% more often than 3' foot uphill putts? That is not from my experience, straight uphill putts are easier to make. The club I belong to , the greenskeeper will have trouble keeping his job if he places the pin location on a breaking ridge. There's usually an unwritten rule that the hole location should have a flat portion 2-3 feet surrounding the hole, otherwise putting will become a joke,

Hes saying that any amount of breaking 3' putt is easier than straight uphill 6', any breaking 5' putt is easier than 8' straight uphill, etc Bottom line is that the type of putt matters significantly less than the length.