Is cost the reason for decline in new golfers?

[Strandly]

What like Judge Smalls?  Ha

The game does seem to get misrepresented more than other sports imo.  If someone has never played then chances are all they know about it are what they see on TV which for a PGA event is probably a bunch of ridiculously serious guys trudging around a course, or in the case of Caddyshack... a pack of screwballs invading the space of a bunch of serious guys trudging around a course.

All I will say is it depends where you play.  In Denver it seemed like even the public courses all had simple dress codes so I bought a couple pairs of khaki shorts and some dri fit shirts and blended in with everyone else.  I wear the same thing (shirt not even tucked in) in this rural Idaho town I moved to and people here assume I'm some sort of semi pro.

[luchnia]

Quote:

People don't play golf for three reasons, primarily, IMO:

1. Cost
2. Time
3. Difficulty

For me it is mostly cost and time - the difficulty doesn't really bother me as I truly enjoy something challenging for me. I also weigh in the cost to do other hobbies that I like and most that I am involved in are much cheaper per daily costs for me. It cost me around 40-60 dollars for a game of golf that might take around 2.5-4 hours.

If I average that out to 3 hours that is a fairly expensive hourly rate and if I look at it from a day's expense that is an expensive hobby day - around 120-140 dollars (8 hour day). I am still looking for those "cheap" places to play. I would bet that most of the average income class don't play due to costs - just my observation and not based on any factual information. I know people that would get into golf but find it out of their cost range.

[inthehole]

agree on the par 3 courses ... none near me (wish there was one).    I have played a few out of my area & to some degree they appear attract a caliber of player who may not respect the course - the few I've played were beat up bad - nobody fixes ball marks, tee boxes were a mess, etc.    I imagine its tough for owners to keep par 3 courses in good shape based on the lesser amount they have to charge and clientele ...

[MrDC]

Cost- I don't know, I never bought into this one, sure it can get pricey, but I think most people generally spend tons of cash on all sorts of hobbies and interests, in my area people spend enough money on boating to buy a new house every year, so I don't buy the cost thing.

Time- if a person is pressed for time, they can just play nine, it takes all of an hour and a half, and again, people spend all day on other things like TV and video games, so time is not the issue.

Difficulty- certainly a problem IMO, the game will knock an experienced player down, but to me this is one of the reasons I like it, it takes a special mind to want to excel at hard things, and many people are just too weak to overcome a challenge, I hope the only thing they ever change about the game at most courses is shorter lengths and less rough.

I think the primary problem is interest, the game just bores people, they see it as a game for old men and sweater vest wearing snobs, not a cool thing, that's it, the only real problem besides difficulty.

[Lihu]

I think the primary problem is interest, the game just bores people, they see it as a game for old men and sweater vest wearing snobs, not a cool thing, that's it, the only real problem besides difficulty.

I agree that difficulty is one issue, but your last statement about the stigma of golf and the image it portrays to the average person is keeping many from playing. The course I play has a running and walking path around it, and I sometimes take walks around the course just to get some cardio exercise. I talk to quite a few people, and most of them feel that the golf course should be removed and replaced with a nice park where people can walk freely. Hope that doesn't happen, but if a vote went out, who knows?

[Patch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDC

I think the primary problem is interest, the game just bores people, they see it as a game for old men and sweater vest wearing snobs, not a cool thing, that's it, the only real problem besides difficulty.

I agree that difficulty is one issue, but your last statement about the stigma of golf and the image it portrays to the average person is keeping many from playing.

The course I play has a running and walking path around it, and I sometimes take walks around the course just to get some cardio exercise. I talk to quite a few people, and most of them feel that the golf course should be removed and replaced with a nice park where people can walk freely. Hope that doesn't happen, but if a vote went out, who knows?

There's a local course in the North Las Vegas valley that was sold to the city some years ago. The city closed it golf part down, and turned it into a public park after some considerable renovations. Their reasoning was that more folks would benefit from a park atmosphere than a city owned golf course. They were right. Usage increased some 500% according to reports.  It was too bad the golf course was lost since it had been there for so long. http://www.cityofnorthlasvegas.com/Departments/ParksAndRecreation/CraigRanchRegionalPark.shtm

[mcanadiens]

A park with no golf? Huh. Sounds boring.

[Lihu]

There's a local course in the North Las Vegas valley that was sold to the city some years ago. The city closed it golf part down, and turned it into a public park after some considerable renovations. Their reasoning was that more folks would benefit from a park atmosphere than a city owned golf course. They were right. Usage increased some 500% according to reports.  It was too bad the golf course was lost since it had been there for so long.   http://www.cityofnorthlasvegas.com/Departments/ParksAndRecreation/CraigRanchRegionalPark.shtm

Looks really nice, but I really hope this does not happen to my daily course.

[ay33660]

This reply is all tainted by the fact I am talking about Vancouver BC a very expensive city to live in.

BUT

Golfed on the weekend with a new member to my course. He is 36.

There is a 30 person wait list for full time men for our course.

I personally know three of them and they are all 40 or below.

Just saw an article about another private club in Vancouver, Point Grey Golf and Country Club. The have a wait list for full time men and their initiation fee is CAD$80,000.

I know another person with is on the full time men's wait list at Capilano Golf and Country Club in West Vancouver and he thinks he is at least 8 years away from getting off the wait list. His initiation fees were over CAD$90,000.

Our course is a bargain at CAD$50,000.

So the high cost of golf is not a cause for the drop in golf in my neck of the woods.

[Lihu]

This reply is all tainted by the fact I am talking about Vancouver BC a very expensive city to live in.

BUT

Golfed on the weekend with a new member to my course. He is 36.

There is a 30 person wait list for full time men for our course.

I personally know three of them and they are all 40 or below.

Just saw an article about another private club in Vancouver, Point Grey Golf and Country Club. The have a wait list for full time men and their initiation fee is CAD$80,000.

I know another person with is on the full time men's wait list at Capilano Golf and Country Club in West Vancouver and he thinks he is at least 8 years away from getting off the wait list. His initiation fees were over CAD$90,000.

Our course is a bargain at CAD$50,000.

So the high cost of golf is not a cause for the drop in golf in my neck of the woods.

Vancouver is the most expensive area in Canada. It would be like saying there is a shortage of golf club memberships in Shanghai or Hong Kong.

[inthehole]

This reply is all tainted by the fact I am talking about Vancouver BC a very expensive city to live in.

BUT

Golfed on the weekend with a new member to my course. He is 36.

There is a 30 person wait list for full time men for our course.

I personally know three of them and they are all 40 or below.

Just saw an article about another private club in Vancouver, Point Grey Golf and Country Club. The have a wait list for full time men and their initiation fee is CAD$80,000.

I know another person with is on the full time men's wait list at Capilano Golf and Country Club in West Vancouver and he thinks he is at least 8 years away from getting off the wait list. His initiation fees were over CAD$90,000.

Our course is a bargain at CAD$50,000.

So the high cost of golf is not a cause for the drop in golf in my neck of the woods.

You're limiting your response to private clubs ... golf is almost always more expensive at private clubs as compared to public courses.    Cheap golf can be had almost everywhere if you utilize online booking sites (I'm sure there are exceptions, but everyplace I've traveled in the past 3 years has had multiple online booking sites available that kept the cost way down)  ...

[ay33660]

You're limiting your response to private clubs ... golf is almost always more expensive at private clubs as compared to public courses.    Cheap golf can be had almost everywhere if you utilize online booking sites (I'm sure there are exceptions, but everyplace I've traveled in the past 3 years has had multiple online booking sites available that kept the cost way down)  ...

Agreed.

The point I was making was that price (including the ridiculously high price up here in Vancouver) is not factor contributing to the decline in new golfers.

[Lihu]

Agreed.

The point I was making was that price (including the ridiculously high price up here in Vancouver) is not factor contributing to the decline in new golfers.

The point I was making is that rich people are not as affected by economic fluctuations as much as non-rich people. Your examples are not representative of all golfers in the world.

[ay33660]

Vancouver is the most expensive area in Canada. It would be like saying there is a shortage of golf club memberships in Shanghai or Hong Kong.

Yes Vancouver is very expensive. A 100 by 120 foot bare lot will cost you $3.5M on the west side of Vancouver.

My point was that even at those ridiculously high prices there is still a demand.

While Vancouver is expensive it is still relatively cheap compared to Tokyo, Shanghai or Hong Kong where golf club memberships costs over $1M if you can get invited in.

I have played at some private clubs in Seattle and it was my impression that their initiation costs are similar.

[ay33660]

The point I was making is that rich people are not as affected by economic fluctuations as much as non-rich people. Your examples are not representative of all golfers in the world.

Opps was typing my response at the same time.

You are correct in stating that richer people are not as affected.

My wife keeps on telling me that I am too often afflicted with first world problems and my sense of reality is clouded ..... except I would not classify myself as rich by any means.

Now some of the other members at my club are definitely rich.

[BuckeyeNut]

Cost- I don't know, I never bought into this one, sure it can get pricey, but I think most people generally spend tons of cash on all sorts of hobbies and interests, in my area people spend enough money on boating to buy a new house every year, so I don't buy the cost thing.

Time- if a person is pressed for time, they can just play nine, it takes all of an hour and a half, and again, people spend all day on other things like TV and video games, so time is not the issue.

I think the primary problem is interest, the game just bores people, they see it as a game for old men and sweater vest wearing snobs, not a cool thing, that's it, the only real problem besides difficulty.

I agree with your sentiments....

Cost:   For those who really want to play, there are tons of public course membership/patron pass opportunities for golfers on a modest budget.  Golfers that aren't aware of the plethora of membership options available to them only have themselves to blame for not looking.

Time:  this is a BS excuse too......any golfer can carve out some time to play either early or late when you have the course to yourself.   I normally play at 630am every weekend, and my 4some is finished by 930....this is hardly a 'day breaker'!! Playing late in the evening is also a great time to log a bunch of holes without traffic.  I often stay on the front to avoid the 'cluster' trying to finish before dark on the back.

A person either has the interest or they don't.......... if they do, they make it work.   If they are a "NON-GOLFER"......they make excuses.  To the excuse makers for not playing...............I am calling you out as non golfers.   There is nothing wrong with being a non-golfer. You simply aren't a member of the "real golfer' club...LOL

[mcanadiens]

Other than our non-golfer thread (which was a little tongue-in-cheek), there really aren't any non-golfers on this board. Most people don't golf because it never occurred to them. The best question is what keeps people who are interested in golf from starting or continuing.

I still contend that it is an intimidation factor for a lot of these people. There was a fellow at the pub the other day and he mentioned that he had been wanting to give it a go. He hasn't yet, because he knows he'll suck. I told him about how I started, had the same fears he did and that it took a friend of mine to push me into going the first time. He may give it a try in the spring.

[newtogolf]

Other than our non-golfer thread (which was a little tongue-in-cheek), there really aren't any non-golfers on this board. Most people don't golf because it never occurred to them. The best question is what keeps people who are interested in golf from starting or continuing.

I still contend that it is an intimidation factor for a lot of these people. There was a fellow at the pub the other day and he mentioned that he had been wanting to give it a go. He hasn't yet, because he knows he'll suck. I told him about how I started, had the same fears he did and that it took a friend of mine to push me into going the first time. He may give it a try in the spring.

I have always felt golf participation suffered because of the stigma that golf is for old guys and intimidation once adults actually try to swing a club and realize it isn't so easy to hit a little ball that isn't moving.

The range close to my home is not on a golf course so it attracts a lot of different types of people, many never swung a golf club before.  I watch their frustration and amazement at how difficult it is to actually hit a golf ball.  Most strive to get the ball in the air first, then it's about distance.  They don't care about direction, just how far they can hit it and that's where the problems start.  Golf is counter intuitive, who would think to hold a golf club like we do and they can't comprehend that the harder they try to hit it (without proper technique) the less likely they are to hit it further.

If they ask for some tips I gladly assist and you can see their eyes light up when they hit that first good shot the way a "real golfer" would.  Those that don't ask for tips leave the range with their hands blistered (some bleeding), tired and frustrated that they did so poorly in a game that fat old men do so well in.

The key to keeping the golf industry healthy is to get kids involved.  Kids are exposed to baseball, soccer, volleyball, hockey and football in elementary school.  As they progress through life they hone these skills and improve at doing them.  While the first tee is making a valiant effort what we really need is schools to start introducing kids to golf so that they can become familiar with it at an early age and progress in hitting a golf ball as they do in throwing a football or hitting a baseball.

Kids have the energy and time to invest in becoming good at golf, if we wait until they are adults they may be so intimidated by the difficulty after their first few experiences they just don't give it a chance.