Definition of "Good Ballstriker"

[Paiste]

  rb72 said:

I think its pretty amazing that you've gotten to an 11 HC while "brutaly topping" 20% of your shots. I don't think I'll ever get down to an 11 and I top the ball less than 5% of the time.

It's because of my short game and putting. When I say brutally top I mean a thin shot that still carries reasonable distance, fairly straight but not hit solid. You can be the best ball striker in the world but if your short game and putting sucks you could still be a 20 hcp.

Ed: A new thread was created from posts originally in this thread: http://thesandtrap.com/t/77352/swing-dont-hit/

[rb72]

  Paiste said:

Admittedly my short game is not the best. I would not have described a "thin shot that still carries reasonable distance, fairly straight" as "brutally topped". That conjurs up images of a complete duff that barely goes 50 yds. But I still believe I don't do either one as much as 5% of the time (combined). My ball striking problems are mostly pushes, pulls and over-cuts but I do make solid contact 95% of the time. Guess I need to work on my short game.

[iacas]

  Paiste said:

You can be the best ball striker in the world but if your short game and putting sucks you could still be a 20 hcp.

Uhm, no.

You simply cannot be the best ball striker in the world and suck so bad at putting and the short game that you can't break 90. Heck, you'd only need to use your short game five times during the round.

[mvmac]

  Paiste said:

You can be the best ball striker in the world but if your short game and putting sucks you could still be a 20 hcp.

That's not possible. You can't be a 20 handicap hitting 13-15 greens. Kenny Perry had the chipping yips a few years ago and was still playing and competing on tour. Paul Azinger was just on Golf Channel talking about a player with the chipping yips who played in the Ryder Cup. And we know plenty of players that aren't great putters that have made a great living playing golf.

[BENtSwing]

I don't think he meant literally the best ball striker in the world...

[mvmac]

  BENtSwing said:

I don't think he meant literally the best ball striker in the world...

Yes I get that, regardless I took his post to mean good ball striker. Examples I used was to highlight that you can "get away" with a poor short game but not a bad long game. Even a player that hits half the greens and has a poor short game won't be a 20 handicapper.

[David in FL]

  mvmac said:

Yes I get that, regardless I took his post to mean good ball striker. Examples I used was to highlight that you can "get away" with a poor short game but not a bad long game. Even a player that hits half the greens and has a poor short game won't be a 20 handicapper.

In fact, he'll likely be in the fairly low single digits......

[Mr. Desmond]

  Paiste said:

It's because of my short game and putting. When I say brutally top I mean a thin shot that still carries reasonable distance, fairly straight but not hit solid. You can be the best ball striker in the world but if your short game and putting sucks you could still be a 20 hcp.

Paiste,

Agree with you on the tension ... I thin when the arms are tense -- I feel it in the arms but tensions undoubtedly exists in other areas. I am just beginning to play again after intensive swing work and have found the front 9 is fairly tension free... as the round progresses, tension creeps in ... fatigue maybe?

Here, I see members rooting for each other, but giving it to each other in a playful way.

I gotta' take you down on the ball striker comment. If you're the best ball striker, even if you suck at the short game, you're still a single digits capper. Think about it ... if you hit your  GIR, you're going to 2 putt most of the time and bogey some others, birdie a few... still shooting under 80.

[David in FL]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Paiste, Agree with you on the tension ... I thin when the arms are tense -- I feel it in the arms but tensions undoubtedly exists in other areas. I am just beginning to play again after intensive swing work and have found the front 9 is fairly tension free... as the round progresses, tension creeps in ... fatigue maybe? Here, I see members rooting for each other, but giving it to each other in a playful way. I gotta' take you down on the ball striker comment. If you're the best ball striker, even if you suck at the short game, you're still a single digits capper. Think about it ... if you hit your  GIR, you're going to 2 putt most of the time and bogey some others, birdie a few... still shooting under 80.

Has anyone ever known a genuinely good ball-striker, who really had a poor short game? Not me. Sometimes short game or putting aren't quite as good as the full-swing, but I've never known them to be poor. Ball-striking is an important factor in both short game and even putting too...

[Mr. Desmond]

  David in FL said:

Has anyone ever known a genuinely good ball-striker, who really had a poor short game?

Not me.

No ...

It may not be up to the level of their ballstrking, but it's still pretty darn good.

Look no further than Hunter Mahan... he gakked a few seconds ago .. twice

[BENtSwing]

  David in FL said:

In fact, he'll likely be in the fairly low single digits......

  mvmac said:

Yes I get that, regardless I took his post to mean good ball striker. Examples I used was to highlight that you can "get away" with a poor short game but not a bad long game. Even a player that hits half the greens and has a poor short game won't be a 20 handicapper.

Word. Gotcha.

[Paiste]

  iacas said:

Uhm, no.

You simply cannot be the best ball striker in the world and suck so bad at putting and the short game that you can't break 90. Heck, you'd only need to use your short game five times during the round.

It wasn't literal. Holy shit you guys need to chill out. I was saying that you can be a good ball striker but that doesn't mean you have a complete game. You guys love opportunities to jump on people. RELAX.

[Paiste]

I actually play golf with a friend of mine fairly regularly and he is a good ball striker. His accuracy isn't the best but he makes good contact; solid and crisp. He's not tuned into his distance control yet so he's always leaving himself tough chips and pitches or long putts. His short game is well below his ball striking as is his putting so he loses a lot strokes due to that. All he practices are full irons shots and driver. Never pulls out his wedges and putter at the range and practices shots from around the green or 50 yards out.

He hits the ball beautifully when he's in full swing but that's it. I don't know if it's his ego but he's always pulling out his pitching wedge from 160 and ending up 20 yards short. His excuse is "I usually hit my PW 160 no problem" but I've never seen it.

In that case, he's a good ball striker but he has no short game or putting, plus he chooses the wrong clubs all of the time. I think that would qualify.

[mvmac]

  Paiste said:

I was saying that you can be a good ball striker but that doesn't mean you have a complete game.

That's not even in the same ballpark as your other post. Typically not the best way to communicate online

Basically if you're good ballstriker you're also a single digit handicap, probably a low single digit, even with a sub-par short game.

[David in FL]

  Paiste said:

I actually play golf with a friend of mine fairly regularly and he is a good ball striker. His accuracy isn't the best but he makes good contact; solid and crisp. He's not tuned into his distance control yet so he's always leaving himself tough chips and pitches or long putts. His short game is well below his ball striking as is his putting so he loses a lot strokes due to that. All he practices are full irons shots and driver. Never pulls out his wedges and putter at the range and practices shots from around the green or 50 yards out. He hits the ball beautifully when he's in full swing but that's it. I don't know if it's his ego but he's always pulling out his pitching wedge from 160 and ending up 20 yards short. His excuse is "I usually hit my PW 160 no problem" but I've never seen it. In that case, he's a good ball striker but he has no short game or putting, plus he chooses the wrong clubs all of the time. I think that would qualify.

I'd argue that your buddy isn't a very good ball-striker if his accuracy and distance control are both "not the best"...... Maybe it's simply a matter of perspective, but solid ball-striking is a lot more than just making "solid, crisp contact". It also includes the ability to execute the exact shot you want to. Distance, trajectory, curve, spin, etc..... For what it's worth, as a fairly steady 5ish hcp, I don't consider my ball-striking to be anything better than mediocre. No one's trying to pick on you, really, but a lot of us believe that it's important to let go of the old "drive for show, putt for dough" adage that puts more emphasis on the short game than on the full-swing game. A good short game is important, but the biggest opportunity that the VAST majority of us have lies in our full-swing ball-striking. Unfortunately, too many amateurs get to the point where they're no longer fatting or sculling very many, or even any shots, and think that their ball-striking is solid enough to get them to that next level, if only they could tighten up the short game. Not so. If that still doesn't help, then just blame some of our grumpiness on the drubbing the U.S. Is taking at The Ryder Cup. ;-)

[Paiste]

  mvmac said:

That's not even in the same ballpark as your other post. Typically not the best way to communicate online

Basically if you're good ballstriker you're also a single digit handicap, probably a low single digit, even with a sub-par short game.

This is getting ridiculous. Now this is turning into a completely different topic altogether because I made a comment that wasn't literal. So what you guys are saying is that to be a good ball striker you pretty much have to be a pro or low single digit. Bullshit. I've read a lot of posts in these forums which pertain to people being good ball strikers but having the other aspects of their game falling short; the reason why their hcp is slightly on the higher side.

I was making an exaggeration earlier to get my point across. I was not being literal.

[Golfingdad]

  Paiste said:

So what you guys are saying is that to be a good ball striker you pretty much have to be a pro or low single digit. Bullshit.

Bingo, now you're getting it. I'm a mid single digit and I can tell you without bias that I am NOT a good ball striker. Not by any stretch. You seem to be defining ball striking too literally, rather than using the accepted golf definition. You only seem to be referring to the club to ball contact with no other considerations, whereas the real definition of good ball striking, like David said, encompasses not only crisp, solid contact, but also hitting it the right direction, the right distance, the right trajectory and with the right curve. Good ball strikers can consistently do all of that.

[Paiste]

  Golfingdad said:

Bingo, now you're getting it. I'm a mid single digit and I can tell you without bias that I am NOT a good ball striker. Not by any stretch.

You seem to be defining ball striking too literally, rather than using the accepted golf definition. You only seem to be referring to the club to ball contact with no other considerations, whereas the real definition of good ball striking, like David said, encompasses not only crisp, solid contact, but also hitting it the right direction, the right distance, the right trajectory and with the right curve. Good ball strikers can consistently do all of that.

Ok, I see what your saying. Not hitting your target or knowing your distance control does not make you a good ball striker just because you make solid contact. But, for someone who has a 18 plus hcp, he would be a decent ball striker for his level of play, wouldn't he?

All in all, the term "Good ball striker" refers to someone who can control the golf ball like you said in almost any situation making them a low single digit or professional. Maybe I was being a little bit too literal. Cheers.