[Article] How To Catch A “Sandbagger”

[nevets88]

http://www.thelocalgolfer.com/blog/2014/11/04/catch-sandbagger/

Quote:

[Spitfisher]

I find the biggest range of cheaters to be in the 14-22 handicap range, it is here that they shoot a personal best round of say 80-82, during a tourney like in a club championship,  in otherwise difficult playing conditions....tough pins, fast greens and competition. Meanwhile single digit handicappers shoot the same score or in some cases higher.

The example shown above with odds is great, there is another one that breaks down the likely hood of meeting or beating your handicap two days in a row- not blowing away your handicap but just meeting it, the odds are something like 1 in 6 years of golf @ 50 rounds per year.

[iacas]

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/understanding_handicap/articles/deanstable.html

[NJpatbee]

I find the biggest range of cheaters to be in the 14-22 handicap range, it is here that they shoot a personal best round of say 80-82, during a tourney like in a club championship,  in otherwise difficult playing conditions....tough pins, fast greens and competition. Meanwhile single digit handicappers shoot the same score or in some cases higher.

The example shown above with odds is great, there is another one that breaks down the likely hood of meeting or beating your handicap two days in a row- not blowing away your handicap but just meeting it, the odds are something like 1 in 6 years of golf @ 50 rounds per year.

I will take your word for it that you have found more cheaters in the 14-22 HCP range, but as an 18 HCP golfer playing 20 - 25 rounds/year my scores will vary by as much as 20 strokes.  Better golfers tend to be much more consistent and play at a higher skill level.  My last 20 scores this season have ranged from 86 - 105.  Five of my scores have been 100+.  Using the best 10 of the 20 scores, they range from 86 - 96 and I wind up an 18.  But in my case it is more likely that I will be 5 strokes over my index for a course, but I am not shocked if I am a few shots under.  Now this can be an advantage but usually is not if I play a handicapped match. My average score of the 20 most recent likely varies more from my HCP than a better, more consistent golfer.  In some cases, inconsistency can be mistaken for sand bagging.  Contrary to what many of the better golfers on this site may feel, I usually lose to better golfers in handicapped matches.

[RayG]

I will take your word for it that you have found more cheaters in the 14-22 HCP range, but as an 18 HCP golfer playing 20 - 25 rounds/year my scores will vary by as much as 20 strokes.  Better golfers tend to be much more consistent and play at a higher skill level.  My last 20 scores this season have ranged from 86 - 105.  Five of my scores have been 100+.  Using the best 10 of the 20 scores, they range from 86 - 96 and I wind up an 18.  But in my case it is more likely that I will be 5 strokes over my index for a course, but I am not shocked if I am a few shots under.  Now this can be an advantage but usually is not if I play a handicapped match. My average score of the 20 most recent likely varies more from my HCP than a better, more consistent golfer.  In some cases, inconsistency can be mistaken for sand bagging.  Contrary to what many of the better golfers on this site may feel, I usually lose to better golfers in handicapped matches.

As you mention- consistency for the 'social' guy playing 20-25 rounds is a tough thing to conquer. But what they're talking about is some "14" going out and shooting 76-75 over two days on a match type setup. Sure, YOU might shoot a 79 on one round, but more than likely will blow out a 95 the next time around. Especially in a tournament pressure situation. If there was some way to track baggers on course- GPS for the tees used (Playing from the tips on a windy day and such to pad the numbers), they could easily be spotted at tourney time.

[turtleback]

As you mention- consistency for the 'social' guy playing 20-25 rounds is a tough thing to conquer. But what they're talking about is some "14" going out and shooting 76-75 over two days on a match type setup. Sure, YOU might shoot a 79 on one round, but more than likely will blow out a 95 the next time around. Especially in a tournament pressure situation.

If there was some way to track baggers on course- GPS for the tees used (Playing from the tips on a windy day and such to pad the numbers), they could easily be spotted at tourney time.

Sandbagging will never be stopped or caught by monitoring on course play because it is pretty easy to shoot a "higher than ability" score without any tell-tales.  Miss a couple of short putts.  Knock a tee shot OB.  Hit your flop shot so it goes into rather than over the sandtrap.

Even the British system of only basing the handicap on competition rounds is susceptible, since it would be a simple matter to play worse in the lesser competitions you don;t care about in order to pump your handicap for the events you do care about.

As long as there are dishonest people there will be (unfortunately, usually successful) sandbaggers.

[Spitfisher]

I will take your word for it that you have found more cheaters in the 14-22 HCP range, but as an 18 HCP golfer playing 20 - 25 rounds/year my scores will vary by as much as 20 strokes.  Better golfers tend to be much more consistent and play at a higher skill level.  My last 20 scores this season have ranged from 86 - 105.  Five of my scores have been 100+.  Using the best 10 of the 20 scores, they range from 86 - 96 and I wind up an 18.  But in my case it is more likely that I will be 5 strokes over my index for a course, but I am not shocked if I am a few shots under.  Now this can be an advantage but usually is not if I play a handicapped match. My average score of the 20 most recent likely varies more from my HCP than a better, more consistent golfer.  In some cases, inconsistency can be mistaken for sand bagging.  Contrary to what many of the better golfers on this site may feel, I usually lose to better golfers in handicapped matches.

Using the best 10 of the 20 scores, they range from 86 - 96 and I wind up an 18

18  Which is about right, I am assuming when calculating those scores that you shot more than 7 on any given hole were not added in. In other words if you got an 9 on a par four,when calculating a handicap you would not use "9" instead use 7. Remember a handicap is your potential not your average.

[rkim291968]

Judging by the chart, my club has golfers who defy the odd or has its share of sandbaggers.  I believe it is the latter.  This is my 1st year of club tournaments which I played in 5 so far.   There are only a dozen tournament and I have already seen 3 multiple winners.   I witnessed one guy in match play mysteriously finding his wayward balls.  He even sent me away from looking for his ball (for 3 - 4 mins) and then finds his ball as soon as I walked away.  Another guy recorded two scores in 100s, over 18 strokes his average, just before a tournament.   All his other scores were in very narrow range from 79 to 84.  The same guy is two for two in winning tournaments.   One guy used very liberal rule when his ball ended up in hazard.   A lot of funny stuff going on and I must say I was very disappointed.  If this is how club tournaments are run, I have no stomach for it.  For now, I am planning to play only in not-so-serious tournaments - scramble, alternative shot, etc..

[Lihu]

Judging by the chart, my club has golfers who defy the odd or has its share of sandbaggers.  I believe it is the latter.  This is my 1st year of club tournaments which I played in 5 so far.   There are only a dozen tournament and I have already seen 3 multiple winners.   I witnessed one guy in match play mysteriously finding his wayward balls.  He even sent me away from looking for his ball (for 3 - 4 mins) and then finds his ball as soon as I walked away.  Another guy recorded two scores in 100s, over 18 strokes his average, just before a tournament.   All his other scores were in very narrow range from 79 to 84.  The same guy is two for two in winning tournaments.   One guy used very liberal rule when his ball ended up in hazard.   A lot of funny stuff going on and I must say I was very disappointed.  If this is how club tournaments are run, I have no stomach for it.  For now, I am planning to play only in not-so-serious tournaments - scramble, alternative shot, etc..

Sounds like you need to join another club. . .

[DrvFrShow]

Damn, if I shoot 4 strokes over my average the score gets tossed from the GHIN calculation at revision. How does shooting 18 above your rating even get counted?

[Lihu]

Damn, if I shoot 4 strokes over my average the score gets tossed from the GHIN calculation at revision. How does shooting 18 above your rating even get counted?

It doesn't unless you start shooting badly for 20 rounds. The old scores get pushed out as new ones are entered.

[Aflighter]

http://www.thelocalgolfer.com/blog/2014/11/04/catch-sandbagger/

Wow.Too bad I couldn't have made a bet and won money when I shot a 71 as a 9.5 handicap few months ago because it was 4467 to 1.

[DrvFrShow]

Well, in my opinion, someone is entering inflated scores, because no one wants to suck that badly for that long.

[Lihu]

Well, in my opinion, someone is entering inflated scores, because no one wants to suck that badly for that long.

The heart of a sandbagger is difficult to read. Keep in mind that sometimes you can win thousands of dollars. Possible incentive to look "bad"? I agree that you should just shoot your best and write down your score, then go on to your next round. We're recreational golfers. The goal is to have fun.

[rb72]

Damn, if I shoot 4 strokes over my average the score gets tossed from the GHIN calculation at revision. How does shooting 18 above your rating even get counted?

Well, if your two oldest scores in your last twenty are in your top ten they will get bumped out and replaced by two score in your bottom ten and your handicap will go up.

[Spitfisher]

Sounds like you need to join another club. . .

Not surprising, another club often is not any different. Just the cast changes. I finally stopped competing in certain tournements and other tournements with certain known players. I am often asked why by the pro and other golfers. I tell them straight up, cheating, sandbagging. It's not something I am particularly proud of, but I am sick of the bull shlt. I am the first person to appreciate an exceptional round. The pros at these clubs also play a small role in turning a blind eye. Their job especially now is to retain membership.

[meenman]

Using the best 10 of the 20 scores, they range from 86 - 96 and I wind up an 18

18  Which is about right, I am assuming when calculating those scores that you shot more than 7 on any given hole were not added in. In other words if you got an 9 on a par four,when calculating a handicap you would not use "9" instead use 7. Remember a handicap is your potential not your average.

This may or may not be correct info - as an 18 index , it will be based on the course. Not many play courses with a slope of 113 or less - so that 7 could also be an 8 depending on the course. But those scores over ESC on holes are generally negligible and will rarely affect handicap (for higher handicapped players.) I know with me, it is rare to put up a snowman on anything other than a par 5.  I can see where a single digit would be affected for counting more than double bogey in a round.

Back on topic - with what I have seen, sandbaggers are generally guys that cheat in tournaments.

In my experience, they all follow the same mold - super nice guys, always attempt to keep their own score in tourneys. If they cant ride alone, they insist on driving and always drop you off at your ball as they scoot off to theirs in the woods, never a lost ball.

Some play multiple rounds a day and only seem to post the 2nd or 3rd round of the day when the score would rise.

[Lihu]

Not surprising, another club often is not any different. Just the cast changes. I finally stopped competing in certain tournements and other tournements with certain known players. I am often asked why by the pro and other golfers. I tell them straight up, cheating, sandbagging. It's not something I am particularly proud of, but I am sick of the bull shlt. I am the first person to appreciate an exceptional round.

The pros at these clubs also play a small role in turning a blind eye. Their job especially now is to retain membership.

I noticed that the clubs are much more loose with the handicap requirements. I'm in the process of joining a club or two, and I was telling them I am working pretty hard on getting an accurate handicap. It seems like they just need a few cards from the last four or five rounds I have played. They don't really check if you are potentially skipping rounds or not.

I'm just wondering if existing members are going to get more sour about new guys coming in and winning all the tournaments?