Is consistency a mindset or a muscle memory thing?

[Moppy]

Well, what I have discovered since I started this thread, is that you have to learn technique a little bit at a time and practice it, so that some of it is burned in, and hopefully there is less to think about in your swing. That's the answer I finally came up with anyways. When I started this thread I was totally lost, struggling with keeping my head steady.

Once you learn enough decent technique, the concentration helps, otherwise, it's not "concentration" it's "worrying," like trying to will a putt to go where you want it, instead of executing a proper stroke.

[Mac62]

Well, what I have discovered since I started this thread, is that you have to learn technique a little bit at a time and practice it, so that some of it is burned in, and hopefully there is less to think about in your swing. That's the answer I finally came up with anyways. When I started this thread I was totally lost, struggling with keeping my head steady.

Whether you call it muscle memory or neural pathways or whatever, it does have to be an unconscious, ingrained thing.  There's just no way you can think yourself through a golf swing - too many little elements happening too fast to be able to correct by conscious thought.  Anything beyond one or two simple swing thoughts is going to overload you, and the result is rarely good.  The body has to know what to do (through muscle memory/conditioned neural pathways) and just do it.  Whatever muscle memory you've built into your swing is how it's going to happen, for better or worse.

Think of it like driving a car - you make hundreds of unconscious decisions/movements a minute when driving.  Minor steering corrections to stay in your lane or negotiate a curve, how much foot pressure on the gas pedal to maintain your speed, how hard to push the brake pedal as you come to a stop sign, etc.  We don't consciously think about all those little things as we're doing them, they just happen.  We've ingrained those processes through years of experience and "practice", and they require no thought.  At 70 mph, you're covering over 100 feet per second - and just like the golf swing, it's too fast for conscious thoughts/reaction processes to keep up with all the tiny little corrections that have to be made.  And just like golf they require mental focus, but not conscious thought.

[DaveP043]

I think you're right on track, consistency is a result of practicing the right things in the right way (that's the way I think of the establishment of muscle memory), and in having the mental (or emotional) confidence to execute that on the course.  There's a lot of great information here on both the right techniques to practice AND the right way to practice them.  Once you've done that preparation, you have to just go out and DO those right techniques, without thinking too much.   Learn to do it right, and then go to the course and do it.  If you make a mistake, don't "fix" that mistake, just make the next swing the right way, the way you've practiced it.

[tomvk77]

I think both actually.

I remember Tiger's reaction at the masters where he hit the flagstick with a shot and it bounced off into the water. he dropped a ball a few feet away from the first shot and he told after that he could repeat the swing, so he was sure not to hit the flag the second time. Now  i know tiger is a whole different level, but i can imagine that this works at some level for everyone. at 110 yards i use a 3/4 PW i hardly mis greens with that type of shot.

As for mindset, if you can picture ( see) the shot before you hit it, it most likely go well

[shanksalot]

Well that is really too bad and I feel for your plight in this. The only thing I have ever found that helped me in this situation is, and I wish I could cite a good video but I sadly can not: 1. address the ball, 2. cock your wrists so the clubhead moves more or less straight up toward your head, 3. roll your arms/shoulders/hands triangle 90 degrees to where the butt of the club basically points directly at the target, 4. do a centered pivot mostly with hips and leg action to get your back more or less toward the target. If that kick starts your brain, start over and do your version of a back stroke. Otherwise just make your downswing from that static position.

The problem is I would not remember that either. My mind just goes blank. It is like reading a book. I had to learn all over again about how to pronounce words so I could read and understand what I was reading. I still have to think how to spell a word that is longer than a few letters. For months I could look at a word and not know what it was, what it meant and how to pronounce it. Golf is the same way. Both have gotten better over the years but I still have some problems. I just have accepted it and do the best I can when it happens.  I have key letters on my golf glove to give hints on how to take the club back and swing it. But I usually forget to look at it and then when I do at times I don't usually remember what the letters stand for. It is a never ending battle. But regardless I still enjoy the walk and the scenery of the golf course and the people I play with on the course.

[bwdial]

It's still the brain that is in control, not the muscles.  The neurons and synapses which activate those muscles are what are being trained (if this is not technically correct, don't castigate me, I'm not a neurologist   ).

Yep... you're pretty much right on the money.  If you practice or play with a solid swing, that swing will become ingrained and more "natural."  Likewise, if you continue to swing inefficiently, with all sorts of funky moving parts, you will be stuck with this swing.

My problem is the lack of time that I am able to devote to either practice or playing, so I haven't developed a consistent swing.

[Moppy]

I wish I hadn't said "consistency," at the time I was consistently slicing fifty yards to the right and missing greens right if I ever got close, hitting fat, etc, etc. I was very consistent. I should have said "consistently well" or something, because at that time my good shots were few and far between.

But regardless I still enjoy the walk and the scenery of the golf course and the people I play with on the course.

The winner is the person who enjoys the game the most.

[Bucki1968]

It seems like (for me anyway) that if I get to a couple of "key" positions in my backswing, then the down swing just works without me thinking about it. When I am swinging good, I have a good follow through (am facing the target) and I'm not working real hard on trying to think about anything except hitting the ball where  I am looking.  Maybe it is a mindset?

[DaveP043]

It seems like (for me anyway) that if I get to a couple of "key" positions in my backswing, then the down swing just works without me thinking about it. When I am swinging good, I have a good follow through (am facing the target) and I'm not working real hard on trying to think about anything except hitting the ball where  I am looking.  Maybe it is a mindset?

I can't quote the book accurately, but this is something I took away from Ben Hogan's Five Lessons.  If I start with a solid grip and proper set-up, and get to a good position at the top of the backswing, its seems difficult to hit a poor shot.  On the other hand, If I get even one of those three wrong, its difficult to hit a good shot.

[tnull]

Practice does not make perfect.  Practice makes permanent.  Only perfect practice makes perfect.

Muscle memory is a lay term for the brain/muscle connection being ingrained.  It starts with us learning to walk.  How awkward and hard was that?  Now you do not think about it, you just do it.  Driving, walking, riding a bike, throwing a ball, etc.  All motions that you do not usually think about, you just do.  The brain simply tells the body how to do the activity without your conscious input.

Steph Curry does not think about exactly how to shoot a basketball.  He has already done that with the ten thousand plus shots he has taken in the past.  When he was perfecting his shot, he made the little adjustments to his technique and did them over and over to ingrain them to "muscle memory".  I played basketball in high school and did the same thing.  Not at his level, obviously, but I could pick up a ball right now and shoot it with a reasonable degree of accuracy from my favorite spots on the court.  Due to the many shots taken in my youth, ingraining the proper motion.

So the issue is to practice a complex athletic activity the proper way in order to ingrain the correct motions so that when it is called upon to perform, the proper motion is what the body does.  My best shots in high school were when I just shot the ball and did not think about it.  See basket, shoot at basket.  That simple.  No thoughts of "keep the elbow in, follow through, hold finish".  Those were mastered long ago.  Now it is just see target, shoot at target.

The golf swing is more complex than shooting a basketball, in my experience.  But the concept is the same.  I have had a problem with shifting my weight forward onto the balls of my feet (product of playing basketball, tennis, football, track....all emphasize weight on the balls of the feet).  This led to me moving towards the ball during the downswing and either compensating or hitting a shank.  Not very consistent.  I could hit dozens of balls just fine, then hit three in a row almost 90 degrees to the right.  The result of a failure in my compensation move.  In all sport moves, we want to eliminate virtually all compensating moves.  Why?  Because they bring in more possibilities for error.  Back to basketball.  Shooters will have favorite spots on the court where they can take a full shot, full arm motion.  Like laying up to a full pitching wedge on the golf course.  A full swing or arm motion has less compensating moves.  Just swing or shoot fully.  A partial wedge or a short running shot in the lane with a partial arm motion is all about feel and is much harder.  Last motion to master, first to loose with lack of practice.

So I have been working really hard on ingraining my downswing with no dip or move towards the ball.  I am almost there.  It is getting so that I don't have to think about it as much.  When I do it right, no compensating move and no shanks.  Just had my first large bucket with absolutely no shanks and 95% of the shots were of pretty good quality.  Much more in line with my basketball shot.  Misses are slight, not catastrophic.....lol!

So what Eric says is spot on.  We need to learn/ingrain a better swing to get consistent.  Doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results is the definition of insanity.....especially in golf as hitting horrible shots over and over will drive you insane....

[shanksalot]

Practice does not make it permanent if it did many guys on tour would never miss a shot. How many times have you seen a pro come down the back nine on Sunday near or in the lead fall apart. If it was permanent they would not do this. The brain does not always allow you to repeat what you know or thought you had ingrained by repetitive practice.

[tnull]

Practice does make it permanent.  I said Perfect practice makes perfect.  Do you know anyone who practices perfectly?  With no errors in form?  Thus the more perfect you can practice, the more correct your form will be ingrained.  Now as to performance, if you let the body do what it has been programmed to do, you will likely (I said likely, not every single time.....lol!) have a positive result.  But the conscious mind can override this.  Nerves, negative thoughts, etc.  That is what happens down the back nine when a player with the lead chokes.  Have you ever been "in the zone" in any sport?  Where everything is easy and you are not thinking about the mechanics, just the task.  Like I said in basketball, "see basket, shoot at basket".  No thoughts of technique, just making the shot.

Even with perfect technique, is every shot perfect?  What about wind gusts?  A bad bounce?  What about near perfect?  What if the face is 1 degree off perfect line?  That's pretty good as far as the muscle memory is concerned, but it could result in a less than perfect result?  Muscle memory gets you in the ballpark my friend, but does not guarantee perfection in every shot.  How many times do you see tour pros hit the kind of shots that we amateurs do?  I will trade their misses for mine.  Theirs are playable in my book. 99.9% of the time.  Practicing your mechanics to ingrain proper muscle memory does not guarantee a perfect result every time.  Steph Curry may shoot 53% from 3 point range, which is great.  But that means he misses almost half of his shots from behind the arc.  Is that failure?  Of course not.  Anyone actually shoot a perfect round of golf?  Even the guys who have shot a 59 say that they missed a shot or two, slightly.  A perfect round is birdie or better on every hole.  -18 for par 72 = 54.  Add in an eagle or two on par 5's and you get what, 51?  Never going to happen.

The point here is that if you practice incorrect technique you are doing more harm than good.  Doesn't matter what you are thinking about or your mental attitude, if you have ingrained an improper stroke then you will suffer the consequences of poor golf.  If you have practiced proper technique and ingrained those motions, you have a better chance of executing the shot that you desire.  It's that simple and that was my point.

[The Recreational Golfer]

It's still the brain that is in control, not the muscles.  The neurons and synapses which activate those muscles are what are being trained (if this is not technically correct, don't castigate me, I'm not a neurologist   ).

Exactly. Muscles can't remember anything. Brains do.

Take lessons, learn what the right things to do are, practice them until you can do them and keep practicing them.