The Tiger Woods/PED Thread

[joekelly]

I brought 2 mid-teen boys to Wrigley Field one summer day, from way out in the countryside.  We saw Sammy Sosa pound a ball onto Waverly Ave and were thrilled.  Sammy's bad?

[Ernest Jones]

Agreed.  There are plenty of other things listed in this thread that would lead one to be suspicious.  If there was hard proof that is public knowledge, then Tiger would already be banned.  So, it is just plain stupid to ask, "Where's your proof?"  OF COURSE, there is no proof that is available to the public.

So, it's "stupid" to ask, "Where's the proof?" But it's "intelligent" to make accusations based on "Of COURSE I have no proof!!!!" Got it, thanks. Edited to add a :-)

[turtleback]

I don't know of one PED user.... That admitted to PED use, before they were caught. Sounds crazy, but it does go along.

Some continue to deny it, even after they get caught.

So what?  That means nothing, unless you are trying to claim that everyone who denied using PEDs is thereby guilty.  This is just the kind of statement that pretends to be unbiased while condemning someone with no evidence.

Plus, as has already been pointed out numerous times in this thread, your premise was completely wrong as well.

So, it boils down to wrong logic applied to a flawed premise.

And 2 wrongs do not make three lefts.

[Spitfisher]

So what?  That means nothing, unless you are trying to claim that everyone who denied using PEDs is thereby guilty.  This is just the kind of statement that pretends to be unbiased while condemning someone with no evidence.   Plus, as has already been pointed out numerous times in this thread, your premise was completely wrong as well. So, it boils down to wrong logic applied to a flawed premise. And 2 wrongs do not make three lefts.

What? :no:

[newtogolf]

I don't know of one PED user.... That admitted to PED use, before they were caught. Sounds crazy, but it does go along.

Some continue to deny it, even after they get caught.

How many non-PED's users do you know that admitted to using PED's?  Do you realize your statement implicates everyone that has never admitted to using PED's regardless of whether they ever used PEDs or not.

[turtleback]

What?

You never heard the expression "2 wrongs don't make a right - but three lefts do"?

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfisher

What?

You never heard the expression "2 wrongs don't make a right - but three lefts do"?

Yes!

[justsomebody591]

On 2/17/2015 at 6:31 PM, mvmac said:

 

 

Not sure what the pics are suppose to illustrate but Tiger isn't a huge muscly guy. The pics verify that.

 

Yes he's added weight and muscle since he was in his late teens, early 20's. You do this by eating more calories than you burn and lifting heavy objects. Also, we all "fill out" as we get older, especially compared to our college days.

 

I'll even add this one. Again not your typical example of someone taking steroids. Just a pic of someone who lifts weights.

 

 

 

Here are the top ways to spot a steroid user. I would say Tiger is 0-5.

 

1. Big guts or distended stomach

2. Preferential development of the upper body muscles, especially lats

3. Gynecomastia or bitch tits

4. Stretch marks and/or acne

5. Unreasonably fast body transformation

 

Necro post here but this was so incredibly uninformed I had to register just to comment on this. Why people insist on opening their mouths regarding things they know nothing about is beyond me. I guess it's just the ego of humans, men in particular. 

Let's talk about all that is wrong with what you said above: 

1. A big gut has NOTHING to do with taking steroids it has to do with EATING TOO MUCH. The reason you see bodybuilders with giant distended stomachs is due to the 6,000 calorie a day diet they must partake in to get as huge as they do. Look at any of the sprinters in the Olympics who took steroids. Do they have huge stomachs? Of course not. It's because they were taking steroids for a completely different reason that professional bodybuilders, ie explosive power vs huge muscles. Huge stomachs have nothing to with steroids. A natty bodybuilder consuming 6k calories a day will have just as huge of a stomach as a juiced one taking 6k calories a day. 

2. This has nothing to do with steroids either. As a person who was a natural bodybuilder for over 10 years myself I had plenty of friends and ran into plenty of people in my circle and extended circle that would only work upper body and never work lower and it had nothing to do with juice it had to do with honestly not caring about lower body development. Some also don't enjoy working out the lower body because a hard leg day will make you dizzy and not everyone enjoys getting dizzy on purpose. Also, some people work out specifically to improve their show muscles and simply don't care about legs. Only bodybuilders worry about full body development and being in proportion. There are plenty of power lifters I knew who would lift a house but had tiny legs that's because they didn't care they were focusing on chest and back. 

3. 0-3 here chief. Gynecomastia is honestly more common in regular people than bodybuilders and is no sure sign someone took juice either. Professional bodybuilders or just amateur bodybuilders who juice, most understand what they getting into beforehand and do research ahead of time. There are very few people who will inject themselves with something without first reading about it. And because they have read about it they understand they need something post cycle to bring their natural testosterone levels back up naturally. The reason bitch tits happen is that when you supplement with say testosterone from the outside your body will stop producing it after a while because it is no longer needed since you are providing it from an outside source. Then when you stop taking the testosterone your body chemistry is out of whack between your natural estrogen levels and testosterone levels. People who juice understand this and take precautions to avoid. It's incredibly rare to see juicers end up with bitch tits simply because they know about PCT (post cycle therapy) and understand that steroids need to be cycled very carefully. 

4. 0-3.5. Stretch marks have nothing to do with steroids. I got stretch marks after working out for several years and getting bigger and I was natural. Also I have several friends who lost weight, who were quite fat previously, and now are lean but have left over stretch marks. Stretch marks on their own have nothing to do with steroids.

ACNE. This is the first thing you have said correct so far. Acne, particularly back acne, is a sure fire way to spot a juicer. A juicer will have TONS of red spots and acne on their back because of the increase in oil produced by their bodies due to increased testosterone production. 

5. 0-4.5 Out of 5 total points you ended up with a .5 being correct and 4.5 being wrong in what you said. A quick body transformation has nothing to do with steroids. I know TONS of guys who are naturally gifted from their genetics and can get huge in 6 months eating only fast food and 1 workout a week. There are some incredibly genetically gifted people out there who can easily gain and lose muscle naturally simply due to their genetics. A person all of a sudden getting huge means nothing. I could mean they are juicing but it could also mean they are naturally genetically gifted as I said and believe me there are a LOT of these types in the gym simply because people who see gains tend to enjoy working out. 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

If gynecomastia is a sign of steroid use then, back in the day, there were a lot of old dudes wearing BanLon shirts who must've been juicing like crazy! The "jiggle factor" ran extremely high for a while.

[newtogolf]

@justsomebody591 Not all people that "juice" know what they're doing.  Professional body builders are walking pharmacies and understand how different PED's interact and the side effects but walk into your average LA Fitness, World or Golds Gym and you'll find a bunch of idiots that will inject or swallow any PED they can get their hands on.  

Gynecomasta became associated with steroid use because people didn't understand that pumping yourself full of testosterone would cause your body to stop producing it.  Today men live longer and we're finding that testosterone levels can be naturally low and cause the same hormonal imbalance that steroid use does.  

Distended stomachs are also know to be a side effect of HGH and insulin.  Old school body builders ate a ton of food but if you look at the new generation of body builders they're not eating a side of beef and 20 whole chickens a day.  There is a debate that the distended stomachs are also caused by significant muscle development of the abdominal region and enlarged internal organs but nothing has been proven.  

[natureboy]

On 5/27/2016 at 6:22 PM, justsomebody591 said:

ACNE. This is the first thing you have said correct so far. Acne, particularly back acne, is a sure fire way to spot a juicer. A juicer will have TONS of red spots and acne on their back because of the increase in oil produced by their bodies due to increased testosterone production. 

5. 0-4.5 Out of 5 total points you ended up with a .5 being correct and 4.5 being wrong in what you said. A quick body transformation has nothing to do with steroids. I know TONS of guys who are naturally gifted from their genetics and can get huge in 6 months eating only fast food and 1 workout a week. There are some incredibly genetically gifted people out there who can easily gain and lose muscle naturally simply due to their genetics. A person all of a sudden getting huge means nothing. I could mean they are juicing but it could also mean they are naturally genetically gifted as I said and believe me there are a LOT of these types in the gym simply because people who see gains tend to enjoy working out. 

How about head size changes? It seems to me that juicers tend to go from normal to disproportional bobble-head (relative to their height not their neck thickness)?

[Lastpick]

I'm not familiar with steroid use, but there are all types of HGH systems out there.  Their objectives are different as I understand it.  Some promote healing and others may promote strength gains.  Blood doping is another type of improving performance.  Yep, I think the Tiger used chemistry to improve his performance.  He is not alone.  I predict that many pro golfers will withdraw from the olympic games due to concerns about the zika virus if you get my drift.  I don't even think that golf in the olympics is all that important and will have a reasonably quick departure.  The pro men just don't need the extra work.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/7/2015 at 10:08 AM, newtogolf said:

How many non-PED's users do you know that admitted to using PED's?  Do you realize your statement implicates everyone that has never admitted to using PED's regardless of whether they ever used PEDs or not.

No, it does not! You are thinking in reverse. This is like saying that since all thumbs are fingers, then all fingers are thumbs! Sorry, but it just doesn't work when you go backwards. Those who deny PED use may be lying, or they may be truthful. Think about it, have you ever heard of a known juicer to just up and admit it? Hell, No! Consider Lance Armstrong.

And Tiger had that mysterious doctor coming down from Canada to visit at his home in Florida. What? Was he an early fan of "socialized medicine"? Or were there no medical practitioners in Florida?

[newtogolf]

43 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

No, it does not! You are thinking in reverse. This is like saying that since all thumbs are fingers, then all fingers are thumbs! Sorry, but it just doesn't work when you go backwards. Those who deny PED use may be lying, or they may be truthful. Think about it, have you ever heard of a known juicer to just up and admit it? Hell, No! Consider Lance Armstrong.

And Tiger had that mysterious doctor coming down from Canada to visit at his home in Florida. What? Was he an early fan of "socialized medicine"? Or were there no medical practitioners in Florida?

You mean Dr. Galea?  A doctor who happened to be an expert in sports medicine and provided Tiger with legal platelet-rich plasma injections?  My primary care physician was indicted for pain med prescription writing violations, does that mean I'm an Oxycodone addict cause he was my doctor?

You don't get to ruin a persons career and reputation on guesses or assumptions.  Until Tiger admits to taking PED's, it's proven in a court of law or he fails a drug test, you can't prove he used PED's and it's ignorant to claim he did.  

 

[Buckeyebowman]

You are hoist on your own petard!

Was Dr. Galea the only expert in sports medicine in all of North America to be had? And the only doctor to provide him with platelet rich injections?

And then you offer up a dirty doctor who, while he didn't addict you may have addicted many others, as a defense?! YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!

And while you might not be an Oxycodone addict because of him, how many people are!

And I CAN'T ruin Tiger's career here or anywhere else. I'm just some schlub posting on an internet forum.

[newtogolf]

7 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

You are hoist on your own petard!

Was Dr. Galea the only expert in sports medicine in all of North America to be had? And the only doctor to provide him with platelet rich injections?

And then you offer up a dirty doctor who, while he didn't addict you may have addicted many others, as a defense?! YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!

And while you might not be an Oxycodone addict because of him, how many people are!

And I CAN'T ruin Tiger's career here or anywhere else. I'm just some schlub posting on an internet forum.

Got it, you're another Tiger hater who wants to discredit his accomplishments by accusing him of using PED's.  Provide some proof or you're just a schlub throwing crap at the wall.    

[turtleback]

9 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I'm just some schlub posting on an internet forum.

Self-awareness is a wonderful thing.

[Buckeyebowman]

13 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Got it, you're another Tiger hater who wants to discredit his accomplishments by accusing him of using PED's.  Provide some proof or you're just a schlub throwing crap at the wall.    

Wrong again! I loved Tiger when he was out there dominating the game. He was great for golf, bringing new fans and attention to the sport. I attended the WGC Bridgestone in Akron when Tiger was in his ascendancy. I tried to follow him, but it was impossible! He had to be dragging 10,000 people around the course!

But I, like many others, began to wonder when Tiger got so big. Remember when he first came on tour? A skinny string bean with big, thick glasses. When he showed up at Stanford it was his teammate, Notah Begay, who tagged him with the nickname "Urkel"! Even though Woods and Begay became friends, I don't think Tiger liked "Urkel" very much. And it's been reported that Tiger didn't like the idea of golfers not being considered "real" athletes either.

So, if Tiger was juicing he never got caught. Neither did Bonds, Sosa or McGwire. There is no proof, but suspicions remain.

It's kind of sad to see Tiger in his current state, trying to claw his way back to the tour. No doubt he has enough money to last the rest of his and his kid's lives, but you don't get to where he was unless you are competitive. I think that might be what Tiger misses the most. I just remembered that he named his yacht "Privacy" because, at the time, that is what he craved. Well, he has plenty of it now.

Wonder how that's sitting with him?