Are you spending 70% of your practice time on your short game like Michael Breed implies you should?

[Golfingdad]

To play devil's advocate against the people playing devil's advocate (a little):

Would that just be "God's advocate?"

I dunno.

I'm gonna head down to the range in a few minutes and pound some drivers.

[westcyderydin]

This is a good thread.  Just read through the whole thing, lots of good stuff.

I like to hear how people interpret these ideas and how it relates to their golf games.

I definitely agree with the 65/20/15 school of thought and the SV skills as written in LSW.  GIRs are king, which means driving and iron/full wedge shots are supremely important.  Also, the full swing is a more complex and difficult motion than any short game shot so it takes more repetition to improve and maintain your full swing.

With all that being said there is no reason not to be proficient with your short game.  Make yourself a short game wizard.

[RFKFREAK]

The driver just pisses me off ;)

In  terms of golf instruction, to not have driver even listed is just insane. To dedicate that much time to short game is way over exaggerating the importance of the short game. I guess Iron/Wedges might account for some % of the long game. Maybe they were thinking full wedge shots, not partial. I do give credit to the 2% who said, "how to practice". I actually like that answer for part of it.

I think a lot of the instructors just didn't want to think hard on the question and went back to the old adages in golf. Who really likes to spend time on a survey?

That was probably @iacas ' answer.

[Golfingdad]

In  terms of golf instruction, to not have driver even listed is just insane. To dedicate that much time to short game is way over exaggerating the importance of the short game. I guess Iron/Wedges might account for some % of the long game. Maybe they were thinking full wedge shots, not partial. I do give credit to the 2% who said, "how to practice". I actually like that answer for part of it.

I think a lot of the instructors just didn't want to think hard on the question and went back to the old adages in golf. Who really likes to spend time on a survey?

That was probably @iacas' answer.

Again, as @RandallT already pointed out, not having driver listed doesn't mean much other than the instructors polled think that students already practice driver "enough."  It doesn't mean that the instructors don't think driver is important or shouldn't be practiced.  (I don't know why I'm trying to defend that graphic, considering what they chose for the important quote in the middle of the picture. ;))

Also, if you're taking the poll question at face value (and credit goes to @jamo for this) ... how exactly does one practice how to practice? I actually think that answer is sillier than not seeing driver up there.

---

Also, watch out because dumbo here just had an epiphany ... As far as I know, neither Breeds assertion that you should practice your short game 70% of the time, nor the 5SK guys' idea that you should practice your short game for 35% of the time take into account the actual amount of practice time.  Maybe not so much an epiphany, because I don't really have an answer, but more of a question:

@iacas does the 65/25/10 rule apply equally to the guy who has only 30 minutes a week to practice versus the guy who practices for 90 minutes every weekday?  If I am only able to get to the range for an hour once every two weeks, perhaps I do need to spend a little more than 15 minutes of that time on chipping and pitching.  Or, by the same token, if I'm at the range 7 1/2 hours a week, perhaps I don't really need to spend 2 of those hours hitting chips and pitches.  Interested in @mvmac 's thoughts as well.

[RFKFREAK]

Again, as @RandallT already pointed out, not having driver listed doesn't mean much other than the instructors polled think that students already practice driver "enough."  It doesn't mean that the instructors don't think driver is important or shouldn't be practiced.  (I don't know why I'm trying to defend that graphic, considering what they chose for the important quote in the middle of the picture. ;))

Also, if you're taking the poll question at face value (and credit goes to @jamo for this) ... how exactly does one practice how to practice?  I actually think that answer is sillier than not seeing driver up there.

Also, watch out because dumbo here just had an epiphany ... As far as I know, neither Breeds assertion that you should practice your short game 70% of the time, nor the 5SK guys' idea that you should practice your short game for 35% of the time take into account the actual amount of practice time.  Maybe not so much an epiphany, because I don't really have an answer, but more of a question:

@iacas does the 65/25/10 rule apply equally to the guy who has only 30 minutes a week to practice versus the guy who practices for 90 minutes every weekday?  If I am only able to get to the range for an hour once every two weeks, perhaps I do need to spend a little more than 15 minutes of that time on chipping and pitching.  Or, by the same token, if I'm at the range 7 1/2 hours a week, perhaps I don't really need to spend 2 of those hours hitting chips and pitches.  Interested in @mvmac 's thoughts as well.

Whoa.

Slowdown, cowboy, I was kidding around - hence the wink ( this guy -----> ).

[Golfingdad]

Whoa.

Slowdown, cowboy, I was kidding around - hence the wink ( this guy -----> ).

And I was trying to convey the mood of my post as well with a and a and then following that up with referring to myself as "dumbo."  Apparently, I failed.

[RFKFREAK]

And I was trying to convey the mood of my post as well with a :-P  and a :beer:  and then following that up with referring to myself as "dumbo." Apparently, I failed. ;-)

You've done it before, you'll no doubt do it many more time again. But, damn, dude, why you gotta insult Dumbo like that? :P

[iacas]

@iacas does the 65/25/10 rule apply equally to the guy who has only 30 minutes a week to practice versus the guy who practices for 90 minutes every weekday? If I am only able to get to the range for an hour once every two weeks, perhaps I do need to spend a little more than 15 minutes of that time on chipping and pitching. Or, by the same token, if I'm at the range 7 1/2 hours a week, perhaps I don't really need to spend 2 of those hours hitting chips and pitches.  Interested in @mvmac 's thoughts as well.

Yes, it's the same for all.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

And I was trying to convey the mood of my post as well with a   and a   and then following that up with referring to myself as "dumbo."  Apparently, I failed.

You've done it before, you'll no doubt do it many more time again.

But, damn, dude, why you gotta insult Dumbo like that? :P

Aaawwwww, guys.  Get a room. OT, OT, OT, ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

@iacas does the 65/25/10 rule apply equally to the guy who has only 30 minutes a week to practice versus the guy who practices for 90 minutes every weekday? If I am only able to get to the range for an hour once every two weeks, perhaps I do need to spend a little more than 15 minutes of that time on chipping and pitching. Or, by the same token, if I'm at the range 7 1/2 hours a week, perhaps I don't really need to spend 2 of those hours hitting chips and pitches.  Interested in @mvmac 's thoughts as well.

Yes, it's the same for all.

I haven't tracked this recently but based on my long game performance of late, it's time to boost that 65 to 85.

[natureboy]

From SIGolf+ magazine, "Top 100 Teachers Poll"

76% of your time spent on bunker play, chipping and putting with 0 % spent on driver. Yep, that'll work

That might be the effect of pros advocating what works for booking more lessons. If a student improves noticeably in a few lessons in some way they can see on the course (less likely with full swing) then the instructor is 'good' and they may buy in for the full package. Pros with lots of disciples assume that their business-serving focus is therefore dialed in on the most important part of the game.

Kudos to the instructors here who emphasize the hard and frustrating slow-gain stuff.

[RFKFREAK]

Aaawwwww, guys.  Get a room.     OT, OT, OT, ....

Haha, I think @Golfingdad knows I only kid the ones I like.

I haven't tracked this recently but based on my long game performance of late, it's time to boost that 65 to 85.

I maybe going the other way - from spending 90 to going to 65%, haha.

[turtleback]

To play devil's advocate against the people playing devil's advocate (a little): the people senselessly bashing drivers on the range aren't "practicing" at all. They're just taking out some aggression with the driver. :)

Ya get what I'm sayin'? :)

Yeah.  My sense is that very few golfers actually practice at all.  Sometimes I personally marvel that I can play the game as well (relatively speaking) as I do, given the fact that I almost never practice.

In fairness, doing exactly that for that reason while studying for the bar is how I got into golf in the first place, haha. So there's some virtue in that, I suppose.

That wasn't practice, that was enticement.  It worked.

[iacas]

BTW, last night on the putting green (because @NatalieB 's putting was bad in her USKG tournament), there were four other people practicing their putting (with one also practicing his chipping).

There were three people on the range when we arrived. Two when we left, and one was the wife or GF (or sister, or whatever) of the guy hitting.

[jlbos83]

Michael Breed did say the pros spend 70% of their practice time on the short game, and suggested that most people don't spend enough time on it, but I don't think he ever suggested the average golfer should spend 70% on it.

I'm more inclined to believe that one (at almost any level) is best served by focusing on the weakest part of their game.  As well as the pros strike the ball, that may well be their short game.  For a lot of average golfers there are probably a lot more bits to choose from!

[mvmac]

I'm more inclined to believe that one (at almost any level) is best served by focusing on the weakest part of their game.  As well as the pros strike the ball, that may well be their short game.

And part of the reason they strike it so well is because they spend most of their time on full swing mechanics. The long game isn't a skill that they can just take for granted. The long game requires more time and maintenance than the short game. The skills and mechanics of the short game are relatively easier to learn and maintain.

[JazzFatCat]

Sometimes I hate golf.

The short game practice area that I use has 3 different greens for putting, chipping and pitching. Nobody was using the putting green and three other people were using the chipping area so I chipped 3 balls to a hole on the putting area and then putted them out. An old guy from the chipping area comes up and tells me that I'm not allowed to do that so I say OK and then keep putting around the green. Then I watched him chip 30 balls to single hole with a chipping technique where the club stops dead in the ground.

I can only imagine what it is like to play a round with that guy where he is coming up with all sorts of reasons why his shots are turning out crappy.

[turtleback]

Sometimes I hate golf.

The short game practice area that I use has 3 different greens for putting, chipping and pitching. Nobody was using the putting green and three other people were using the chipping area so I chipped 3 balls to a hole on the putting area and then putted them out. An old guy from the chipping area comes up and tells me that I'm not allowed to do that so I say OK and then keep putting around the green. Then I watched him chip 30 balls to single hole with a chipping technique where the club stops dead in the ground.

I can only imagine what it is like to play a round with that guy where he is coming up with all sorts of reasons why his shots are turning out crappy.

I'm not sure what the complaint is, here.  Is it that he told you you shouldn't be doing what you were doing (kind of obvious that if there is a separate green for chipping then they don't want you chipping on the putting green)?

Or are you complaining about his chipping technique? or his practice routine?

Or are you complaining about how you imagine he would act if you played with him?

I don't see anything the old guy (and interesting that you don't just say guy, you had to make it old guy) did wrong or anything that happened that would make you hate golf.  It seems to me that you knew that green was just for putting, didn't care, and got called on it.

[JazzFatCat]

I'm not sure what the complaint is, here.  Is it that he told you you shouldn't be doing what you were doing (kind of obvious that if there is a separate green for chipping then they don't want you chipping on the putting green)?

Or are you complaining about his chipping technique? or his practice routine?

Or are you complaining about how you imagine he would act if you played with him?

I don't see anything the old guy (and interesting that you don't just say guy, you had to make it old guy) did wrong or anything that happened that would make you hate golf.  It seems to me that you knew that green was just for putting, didn't care, and got called on it.

I was going to post something in this thread a month ago about how if you aren't taking lessons then maybe it makes sense to practice the short game the most otherwise you are just ingraining swing faults. But then I watch some people at the short game area ingrain strange short game techniques. It just seemed so pointless to chip 30 balls with a bad technique and have the balls ricochet off each other.

The chipping green and the putting green are separated by a strip of fringe so if you face one direction you are chipping to the chipping green and if you face the other direction you are chipping to the putting green. I can't image what the objection is if nobody is using the putting green.

The rigid thinking and the "this is the proper way to practice chipping" attitude bugged me and it's one more tick in the "golf sucks" column for me.