Who would you rather be?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

In specific instances, yes. Would I rather be a foot into the fringe and 15 feet from the hole, or 60 feet from the hole across two tiers on the green? Obviously the former.

It goes to "missing it in the right places."

But on the whole, it tends to average out: GIR is better than nGIR. And when talking generally, and giving advice for general situations, we have to go with what generally works, especially when it's by not a small margin.

I THINK I understand this and if the statement had stopped at simply costs you strokes or followed with over time, or in the end, or in the long run, or ... I would have been 100% on board. But my brain exploded on the three words no matter what because it seemed there were very unique and specific instances where it would not be no matter what.

However I also realize that this is just one of my quirks so no issues on my part as I understand now that it was not meant the way I interpreted it, maybe, possibly, .

I should probably have clarified my statement a bit.

Let's say two players play 100 holes, and one always hits left/right pin high and the other always short. What are the chances that the person hitting pin high will par any hole versus the one who always hits short? The first player has a birdie chances more often by definition. The player that hits short all the time will need to scramble 100% of the time.

That's what I meant, and not literally on every single hole, but over multiple rounds.

[Ernest Jones]

Why is it that so many in the accuracy camp assume that the longer hitter is also a twit when it comes to course management? The stories of the guy that's 30 yards longer but always losing because he keeps bombing it into the trees or running out of fairway on the doglegs isn't losing because he's a long hitter, he's losing because he isn't managing the course and his game properly. Just ignore the "drive" aspect for a moment, if you and I are 150 yards out and I can get their with a 9i and you need a 5i who do you think has a better average after 10 shots, 25 shots, 50 shots.... Not to belabour a point, but the extra distance is all through the bag, it's not just some magical bazooka driver that goes 450 yards in some random direction and knocks over all the other golfers with the shockwaves the shaft creates as it cuts through the space-time continuum.

[boogielicious]

Why is it that so many in the accuracy camp assume that the longer hitter is also a twit when it comes to course management? The stories of the guy that's 30 yards longer but always losing because he keeps bombing it into the trees or running out of fairway on the doglegs isn't losing because he's a long hitter, he's losing because he isn't managing the course and his game properly.

Just ignore the "drive" aspect for a moment, if you and I are 150 yards out and I can get their with a 9i and you need a 5i who do you think has a better average after 10 shots, 25 shots, 50 shots....

Not to belabour a point, but the extra distance is all through the bag, it's not just some magical bazooka driver that goes 450 yards in some random direction and knocks over all the other golfers with the shockwaves the shaft creates as it cuts through the space-time continuum.

They are thinking of this guy.  Long hitter Viv.

[M2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2R

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

In specific instances, yes. Would I rather be a foot into the fringe and 15 feet from the hole, or 60 feet from the hole across two tiers on the green? Obviously the former.

It goes to "missing it in the right places."

But on the whole, it tends to average out: GIR is better than nGIR. And when talking generally, and giving advice for general situations, we have to go with what generally works, especially when it's by not a small margin.

I THINK I understand this and if the statement had stopped at simply costs you strokes or followed with over time, or in the end, or in the long run, or ... I would have been 100% on board. But my brain exploded on the three words no matter what because it seemed there were very unique and specific instances where it would not be no matter what.

However I also realize that this is just one of my quirks so no issues on my part as I understand now that it was not meant the way I interpreted it, maybe, possibly, .

I should probably have clarified my statement a bit.

Let's say two players play 100 holes, and one always hits left/right pin high and the other always short. What are the chances that the person hitting pin high will par any hole versus the one who always hits short? The first player has a birdie chances more often by definition. The player that hits short all the time will need to scramble 100% of the time.

That's what I meant, and not literally on every single hole, but over multiple rounds.

After @iacas post I realized that is something like what you meant but thanks for adding that as the logic is very clear now.

I do not necessarily think your initial post needed clarification. At some point you just have to trust that people can grasp your meaning and if there is a question they will ask. I feel that I messed up myself just above by putting THINK in caps (to indicate doubt since I often think I understand things but later learn that I actually did not). Reading it back now I would be inclined to interpret THINK in caps to mean I already know this why are you tell me again.

[Elmer]

I'll take distance any day.  I played in a club scramble this weekend and one of the players hit the ball at least 280 yards every drive.  On holes where I'd be hitting a 3w to reach the green or laying up, I was hitting an 8i or shorter.  It's a different game when you have distance, even if you have to hit from the rough every once in a while.

I played last night. My drives averaged 265. My 2nd shot was 8i or less every shot. My opponent was hitting 7i to a hybrid because he was short and in the fair way.

I will take distance, I feel the closer I am the bigger the green gets.

Theoretically, If my 2nd shot is 120 yards away from the green and I miss, chances are I will not be far off the green (unless I completely shank it).

My opponent is 160 to 180 from the green there is a greater potential to miss. There is a greater chance of missing 30 yards off the green.

Just saying I will take distance, and I have!

[Moppy]

The reason these threads last forever on a seemingly settled issue is that courses are different. I have played courses where the rough cut was about ten yards, and beyond that, the ball is lost, full stop. One in Florida where it would go into the never-stop growing jungle growth, one in NY State in the fall where it would disappear into a bed of fallen leaves. Both these courses were pretty narrow, as well. On my home course, the weeds to the side of a lot of the fairways may as well be water hazard.  Then I just played at Sunken Meadow on Long Island not too long ago, and you are pretty much guaranteed to find everything if you have a decent idea of where the ball lands. Not to mention that the wide fairways there would accommodate all but the worst slice.

So tell me where I am with my 270 yard drive that went 50 yards astray. Lost and re-hitting it, or in the first cut of rough, or in the woods but playable? Do I have a fore-caddie?

At Sunken Meadow, I want to be as long as possible and accuracy be damned, at that Disney course in Florida where every stray shot is penalized by a lost ball in jungle or water, I will take 220 and accurate all day long.

Of course if I am a long hitter, I would just use the 3 in those case. So I would rather be the long hitter. Why are we even talking about this?

The other problem I have as a short hitter is using a 4 or 5 hybrid to get on the green or, God forbid, a 3, and I am just going to either have to roll it past a bunker, or roll it off the green because of the lower trajectory. Now I just tell my self, "Moppy, you are a double-bogie golfer, just take the extra shot with an iron to get close to the green and try to get 'up and down' from there with a two putt."  If I were longer, I would be a bogie golfer, just that one thing would cut that many shots, provided that the course is not too penal on the strays.

BTW, I think that keeping the woods clean, and the 'waste' land mowed, (I didn't say watered or free or weeds) shortening the search for lost balls would do more for PoP than scolding and insulting paying customers.

[RFKFREAK]

The reason these threads last forever on a seemingly settled issue is that courses are different. I have played courses where the rough cut was about ten yards, and beyond that, the ball is lost, full stop. One in Florida where it would go into the never-stop growing jungle growth, one in NY State in the fall where it would disappear into a bed of fallen leaves. Both these courses were pretty narrow, as well. On my home course, the weeds to the side of a lot of the fairways may as well be water hazard.  Then I just played at Sunken Meadow on Long Island not too long ago, and you are pretty much guaranteed to find everything if you have a decent idea of where the ball lands. Not to mention that the wide fairways there would accommodate all but the worst slice.

So tell me where I am with my 270 yard drive that went 50 yards astray. Lost and re-hitting it, or in the first cut of rough, or in the woods but playable? Do I have a fore-caddie?

At Sunken Meadow, I want to be as long as possible and accuracy be damned, at that Disney course in Florida where every stray shot is penalized by a lost ball in jungle or water, I will take 220 and accurate all day long.

Of course if I am a long hitter, I would just use the 3 in those case. So I would rather be the long hitter. Why are we even talking about this?

The other problem I have as a short hitter is using a 4 or 5 hybrid to get on the green or, God forbid, a 3, and I am just going to either have to roll it past a bunker, or roll it off the green because of the lower trajectory. Now I just tell my self, "Moppy, you are a double-bogie golfer, just take the extra shot with an iron to get close to the green and try to get 'up and down' from there with a two putt."  If I were longer, I would be a bogie golfer, just that one thing would cut that many shots, provided that the course is not too penal on the strays.

BTW, I think that keeping the woods clean, and the 'waste' land mowed, (I didn't say watered or free or weeds) shortening the search for lost balls would do more for PoP than scolding and insulting paying customers.

Thoughts, @dkolo

[dkolo]

Thoughts, @dkolo ?

Oh man, I've heard the fairways at Sunken Meadow described in many ways, but "wide" has never been one of them haha. Yeah, if you know the course, you know which holes missing into the trees will result in a lost ball vs. a likely find. The Red is pretty wide open. The Blue and Green with all its doglegs and brush are dicier. The course itself is short, so your recovery shots don't leave you with huge distances to the hole. I played a course in North Carolina this weekend that was new to me and I lost a ton of balls because there were forced carries I didn't see and brush that was thicker than I thought. Also the ball was pin balling around the slopey firm fairways and it was hard to see where it landed. On #10, I hit the left rough, it kicked off a mound and nearly went into the water on the right. Local knowledge is huge sometimes.

[Fourputt]

Why is it that so many in the accuracy camp assume that the longer hitter is also a twit when it comes to course management? The stories of the guy that's 30 yards longer but always losing because he keeps bombing it into the trees or running out of fairway on the doglegs isn't losing because he's a long hitter, he's losing because he isn't managing the course and his game properly.

Just ignore the "drive" aspect for a moment, if you and I are 150 yards out and I can get their with a 9i and you need a 5i who do you think has a better average after 10 shots, 25 shots, 50 shots....

Not to belabour a point, but the extra distance is all through the bag, it's not just some magical bazooka driver that goes 450 yards in some random direction and knocks over all the other golfers with the shockwaves the shaft creates as it cuts through the space-time continuum.

Long is great.  Accuracy is great.  Course management is great.  However, for those of us for whom long is no longer an option, we had best focus on the other two.

The way I see it, at my age, I'm as long right now as I'm ever going to be.  I'm a good course manager.  My accuracy could use a shot in the arm with a wonder drug.

[dfreuter415]

I live the short and accurate game. I would love to have some distance.

[Moppy]

Oh man, I've heard the fairways at Sunken Meadow described in many ways, but "wide" has never been one of them haha.

I don't play that many courses. Maybe I am playing courses that are too hard for me. I was playing the green. It seemed pretty wide to me compared to the other courses I play. I never lost a ball except for one carry over water I should have known better. It seemed like with those nice raked out woods, I always found my ball.

[mvmac]

Hitting longer will improve your score, and pros should serve as a model, but is distance what we should focus on?

Distance is important for amateurs but you should focus on improving mechanics, hitting the ball more solid, distance and accuracy will benefit as a result.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/78188/is-distance-really-that-important-for-amateurs#post_1075930

http://thesandtrap.com/t/78188/is-distance-really-that-important-for-amateurs/936#post_1104276

[dkolo]

I don't play that many courses. Maybe I am playing courses that are too hard for me. I was playing the green. It seemed pretty wide to me compared to the other courses I play. I never lost a ball except for one carry over water I should have known better. It seemed like with those nice raked out woods, I always found my ball.

Hmm. There's no water carry at Sunken Meadow. Or water at all, really. Did you mean maybe nearby Crab Meadow?

[Moppy]

No, I must have had it confused with another course I played the day before. Sunken Meadow is beautiful though. Last week with the crab apples and cherry trees in full bloom and the lush grass, it reminded you of Augusta at the Masters

[dkolo]

No, I must have had it confused with another course I played the day before. Sunken Meadow is beautiful though. Last week with the crab apples and cherry trees in full bloom and the lush grass, it reminded you of Augusta at the Masters

Ahhhhhh, I have to go this weekend! Damn Mother's Day commitments. Maybe she'll understand...?

[RichWW2]

Since I'm much closer to the '300 and in the trees' and the '270 and thirty yards off the fairway' player than I am the short & accurate hitter I'll stick with those.  Hitting fairways and greens all day seems like it'd be boring anyway, so give me the shorter shot that has to go over, under, or around trees.

[RFKFREAK]

Ahhhhhh, I have to go this weekend! Damn Mother's Day commitments. Maybe she'll understand...?

What are you doing Saturday?

[DrvFrShow]

I think this is the confusion... Here's a diagram from LSW, except I modified it to be my own shot spread instead of a professional golfer's. I would hit a 3W on this hole. Not a driver. It would simply be dumb to hit my driver unless I needed to make a birdie to win the tournament, and my 3W shot would not leave me in a position with as good of a chance of a GIR as my driver. As you can see from the distance it would not, but I have a better chance at a par on the hole with the 3W and a better chance at a bogey or worse with my driver.