Golfer Pulls Gun on Group Over Golf Etiquette Dispute at New Britain Course [NBC Local]

[Dave2512]

Probably just as unlikely as a church group at a hotel.

Regardless, if there is a shooter on the loose he could run in any direction... an open field with lots of trees and no roads (and perhaps a getaway golf cart) isn't anywhere near out of the realm of possibility, or even probability at that point.

Don't worry though.  Nothing could ever happen to you.

I look at it a different way. Two shootings in seven years is one per 1233 days. The risk would be it happened .08% of the time. Even if you doubled it the risk it is exceedingly low. But my point is golf courses are thinly populated relative to the space they occupy and most are hundreds of yards apart at any given time. It's not a good place to plan a mass shooting or run and hide after you commit one. If golf course violence is likely it's between people there to golf not due to a rare act of violence on an adjacent property. And no I've never seen a high speed chase with a perp in a golf cart. Never mind that if I was on the course and I saw someone running around in desperation without golf clubs I wouldn't approach them to find out why. I'd use my cart and it's 12-16 mph to get away before they got close.

But no I don't worry about things like the hand wringing anecdotes people come up with to justify CCW because most are presented with a tone of irrational fear. Which is why I wish more people were cautious about why and when they carry. The personality type that is so fearful they expect something bad to happen all the time usually is poorly equipped to react appropriately in a spontaneous potentially deadly encounter. These are difficult situations for people that train for it daily, cops etc. Regardless in my 47 years the times I've actually needed a gun to protect myself is exactly zero and I expect it to remain that way. I realize high odds don't mean impossible, I play the lottery twice a week, but of all the things to concern myself with being shot by a maniac isn't high on the list.

[newtogolf]

I look at it a different way. Two shootings in seven years is one per 1233 days. The risk would be it happened .08% of the time. Even if you doubled it the risk it is exceedingly low. But my point is golf courses are thinly populated relative to the space they occupy and most are hundreds of yards apart at any given time. It's not a good place to plan a mass shooting or run and hide after you commit one. If golf course violence is likely it's between people there to golf not due to a rare act of violence on an adjacent property. And no I've never seen a high speed chase with a perp in a golf cart. Never mind that if I was on the course and I saw someone running around in desperation without golf clubs I wouldn't approach them to find out why. I'd use my cart and it's 12-16 mph to get away before they got close.

But no I don't worry about things like the hand wringing anecdotes people come up with to justify CCW because most are presented with a tone of irrational fear. Which is why I wish more people were cautious about why and when they carry. The personality type that is so fearful they expect something bad to happen all the time usually is poorly equipped to react appropriately in a spontaneous potentially deadly encounter. These are difficult situations for people that train for it daily, cops etc. Regardless in my 47 years the times I've actually needed a gun to protect myself is exactly zero and I expect it to remain that way. I realize high odds don't mean impossible, I play the lottery twice a week, but of all the things to concern myself with being shot by a maniac isn't high on the list.

I agree overall, the likelihood of being involved in a mass shooting is lower than getting bit by a shark and tens of thousands of people swim at the beach every day.

The debate shouldn't be about the justification for CCW it should be our right for whatever reason we deem it necessary.   The public as a whole doesn't comprehend that beyond accidental shootings the majority of crimes are committed with unlicensed guns that are carried by criminals without a CCW.

As was said in an earlier post, a responsible person with a CCW should never disclose that he's carrying unless his life is threatened.

[Dave2512]

As was said in an earlier post, a responsible person with a CCW should never disclose that he's carrying unless his life is threatened.

No doubt and I never do, I mentioned earlier I haven't taken my gun out of the house yet in 2015. I don't even keep it within reach at the house it's locked in a safe.

But my problem isn't the responsible and there are many. However my experience is CCW seems to becoming a fad here and the dolts I see celebrating it are the lifted truck with balls dangling under it stickered up with "protected by" look at me dressed in camo body armor mugging rapper style on Facebook types. These folks concern me. Not because they have guns but because they appear convinced they need one 24/7 and can control deadly situations but likely don't have any experience or relevant training. I don't want someone like this waving a gun around me in a dangerous situation.

[Gunther]

Better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it. -Gas station robberies could and do happen everywhere at any time.  -Some parts of town can see some strange activity, near campuses thugs are out mugging/raping/shooting people with much regularity (Marquette and UW-Milwaukee campuses are regularly in the news for such events) -Road rage happens all the time.  If some psycho with a death wish gets mad at me for accidentally cutting him off, I'm not losing my life over it.  But he may. -Random random random.  Mall shootings, Movie theater shootings, etc.  In Brookfield, WI - an above average income town, we had two mass shootings within a seven year timeframe and less than 1/2 mile apart.  To drive the point home even harder, there are two golf courses that LITERALLY share borders with these two locations.  A golf range is less than 1/4 mile away as well. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/120849/] [/URL] Any law abiding citizen knows that you don't brandish your firearm unless the intended use is to protect you and yours.  Just because you (and I, and everyone that I associate with) care about life and have high moral values, doesn't mean everyone feels that way.  Thugs/druggies/psychos could give two sh!ts about you or anything you love if it means they feel disrespected or if you are in their way for something they want.  I don't need you to judge me for carrying the gun, but I may need you to judge me for using it... which leads me to another useful phrase, "it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six".

Great post, esp. that last paragraph. [quote name="Mac62" url="/t/81831/golfer-pulls-gun-on-group-over-golf-etiquette-dispute-at-new-britain-course-nbc-local/40_40#post_1139739"] If a person who is carrying concealed properly recognizes the great responsibility which comes with that privilege, nobody should ever even know that he's carrying unless they present a threat to his life or well-being (or that of others).  As to the OP, the wingnut should have his permit permanently revoked and do jail time.  He's not a responsible gun owner, he's an armed thug with an obvious (and egregious) lack of judgment, as well as some apparent anger management issues.  Not the kind of person you want walking around with a sidearm. [/quote]Absolutely.

[RJH999]

Two thoughts: -I have no problem with packing heat on the course. Do you, man. -That guy who got arrested needs to smoke more weed.

[JonMA1]

In the state of Michigan, it's pretty easy to get a permit. Because I have no felony convictions, I believe all that's required is an application and to attend a class. I have several firearms in a gun safe but I choose not to carry when I leave the house. The reason being that I don't see daily threats that many folks who live in higher crime areas experience.

Having said that, I'm absolutely convinced that the right to carry is correct. If a situation were to arise where we had someone who had it in for us, or a stalker - these things are not that unusual - It's nice to know we have that option.

Living in a small northern town has it's advantage. Relatively low crime being one. But a downside is that we have no municipal police force. We have to rely on the county LEO's and their response time is very slow. When the police can absolutely guarantee my family's safety, I'll listen to reasonable changes to gun control laws. We've had three situations up here where I took firearms out of the safe because I thought a threat was realistic. That doesn't mean I went out and started opening fire on my neighbors. I couldn't imagine how horrible it would be to overreact and take someone else's life, but there are bad people who prey on the weak. They may not be common, but they do exist. All that has to happen is to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Of the few people I know who do carry, most say the same thing about confrontation. By knowing they have the ability to win a fight, it's so much easier to stay calm and simply walk away. To be fair, I worked with an ex-police officer who carried and seemed way too eager for a situation to arise where he could be a "hero".

As for the hot heads who are likely to pull a gun when the situation doesn't warrant that action, they don't need a permit to carry. It's not that hard to conceal a weapon illegally.

[David in FL]

No doubt and I never do, I mentioned earlier I haven't taken my gun out of the house yet in 2015..... These folks concern me. Not because they have guns but because they appear convinced they need one 24/7....

I have yet to learn to predict the future. I wish I had your crystal ball. ;-)

[boogielicious]

I have create a poll question thread in the Grill Room.

I created a hypothetical situation and would like to see you thoughts on it.

[Aguirre]

Carry all you want, I don't care.  I'm not one to restrict gun rights, even if I don't own one.

But gun dudes are hilariously annoying.  We've got enormous issues in this country and gun guys are constantly worried about Barry Obama appearing on their doorstep and taking their guns.  Meanwhile, we get robbed by thugs in suits on TV every day.

My favorite statistic about gun ownership is the person most likely to be shot by the gun is the owner.  Whether it's suicide, accident, or they just have it taken from them by somebody else who proceeds to shoot them.  And every gun owner says that will never happen to them.  Even the ones who will inevitably get shot by their own weapon.

Anyway, you cowboys do what you want.  But you be careful now.

[rob0225]

I look at it a different way. Two shootings in seven years is one per 1233 days. The risk would be it happened .08% of the time. Even if you doubled it the risk it is exceedingly low. But my point is golf courses are thinly populated relative to the space they occupy and most are hundreds of yards apart at any given time. It's not a good place to plan a mass shooting or run and hide after you commit one. If golf course violence is likely it's between people there to golf not due to a rare act of violence on an adjacent property. And no I've never seen a high speed chase with a perp in a golf cart. Never mind that if I was on the course and I saw someone running around in desperation without golf clubs I wouldn't approach them to find out why. I'd use my cart and it's 12-16 mph to get away before they got close.

But no I don't worry about things like the hand wringing anecdotes people come up with to justify CCW because most are presented with a tone of irrational fear. Which is why I wish more people were cautious about why and when they carry. The personality type that is so fearful they expect something bad to happen all the time usually is poorly equipped to react appropriately in a spontaneous potentially deadly encounter. These are difficult situations for people that train for it daily, cops etc. Regardless in my 47 years the times I've actually needed a gun to protect myself is exactly zero and I expect it to remain that way. I realize high odds don't mean impossible, I play the lottery twice a week, but of all the things to concern myself with being shot by a maniac isn't high on the list.

I'd much rather carry a gun and not need it, then to need one and not have it.

How many of the mass shootings could have been prevented or at least minimized the loss of life had more people been carrying?  Most all of them happen in "gun free" zones because they know no one else has a gun to fight back.