How to "Flight" Your Wedges and Short Irons

[mvmac]

So you are throwing the wrist 'upcock' from b/s, but not pronating R over L, yes?

You're still pronating but the overtaking rate is different, you're not allowing the club to re-cock as fast.

How much lead wrist bow do you feel relative to the regular swing?

Depends on the player, I don't feel any difference. You're basically just making your swing, just a 3/4 version.

Do you feel more left sided / steeper on the ball like hitting out of rough vs. regular swing?

I end up being a little steeper (not to the point where I'm actually steep) but it's not a conscious swing thought.

[natureboy]

You're still pronating but the overtaking rate is different, you're not allowing the club to re-cock as fast.

Depends on the player, I don't feel any difference. You're basically just making your swing, just a 3/4 version.

I end up being a little steeper (not to the point where I'm actually steep) but it's not a conscious swing thought.

Do you feel looser, tighter, or lazier with hands or any part of your swing? Do you feel hands ahead (de-loft) more than regular swing?

I'm not doing something right with these. Started with lowish push fades, then started adding more head going to target / less spine tilt and got straight, but as high as regular swing. Possibly was tightening wrist on those and flipping a bit. Maybe need to add even more 'covering' feel to get take out enough of my regular secondary axis tilt and feel more soft / passive hands?

[mvmac]

[QUOTE name="natureboy" url="/t/82268/how-to-flight-your-wedges-and-short-irons/126#post_1166255"]   Do you feel looser, tighter, or lazier with hands or any part of your swing? Do you feel hands ahead (de-loft) more than regular swing? [/QUOTE] Definitely not lazy, I'd say it feels firm but passive. I don't consciously deloft the club, the shorter swing takes care of that. I'll try to do a video on this tomorrow or during the weekend. I think a big reason there has been a lot of positive feedback on this thread, the 3/4 backswing with the shorter more extended finish, is that it helps players with their Key #3. [QUOTE name="natureboy" url="/t/82268/how-to-flight-your-wedges-and-short-irons/126#post_1166255"] I'm not doing something right with these. Started with lowish push fades, then started adding more head going to target / less spine tilt and got straight, but as high as regular swing. Possibly was tightening wrist on those and flipping a bit. Maybe need to add even more 'covering' feel to get take out enough of my regular secondary axis tilt and feel more soft / passive hands?   [/QUOTE] Tough for me to say without seeing the swings. Start a swing thread if you can. Generally, higher handicappers don't create enough axis tilt, or at least don't do it properly. You might be "covering" it too much.

[natureboy]

Definitely not lazy, I'd say it feels firm but passive. I don't consciously deloft the club, the shorter swing takes care of that. I'll try to do a video on this tomorrow or during the weekend.

I think a big reason there has been a lot of positive feedback on this thread, the 3/4 backswing with the shorter more extended finish, is that it helps players with their Key #3.

Tough for me to say without seeing the swings. Start a swing thread if you can. Generally, higher handicappers don't create enough axis tilt, or at least don't do it properly. You might be "covering" it too much.

The reason I suggested too much axis tilt is that I tend to hit irons - even long irons quite high. There's probably a bit of lingering flip at impact there contributing too, but I think it's mostly from my secondary axis tilt, which may have gotten excessive with irons. I used to hit lower with very deep divots. My short iron divots are now nice long strips instead of holes. I know I don't bow my wrist enough through impact so working on that with all irons. Often when I am trying a new shot I tense the arms, which tends to increase the flip action / body stall tendency.

No swing thread for a bit, it requires new equipment I can't afford. I like the challenge of working it out internally anyway (at this stage) - even if slower.

[SoundandFury]

Probably a question best addressed by @mvmac since I'm working on the flighted wedge shots he has a video demonstrating.  Want to bring my wedge flight down some to try to get a bit more distance control.  As the video recommends, I'm taking one more club than normal: Full GW - 115-120, using PW now, full SW - 95-105, using GW, etc.).  I put the ball a bit back, swing to what feels like 3/4, and cut off my follow through.  Flight is definitely lower, and has more spin (too much sometimes...I hit a shot this morning from 100 with my GW that landed about 3 feet short of the pin and spun back more than 15 yards; green sloped front to back but still, annoying).

Problem I'm having is that more often than not I'm pulling these shots.  I hit a few back to back with full wedges just to compare, and almost all of the flighted shots were left to some degree, either a little or a lot.  Full wedges on the other hand were either right online or a tad right.

Any ideas?

[natureboy]

Couple things I think I was doing wrong that I will work on: intention to 'restrict' finish resulted in tightening wrists forearms before and through impact rather than 'braking' (primarily with body) after impact for lower finish. I was gripping so tight I was likely restricting club release. My intention on shot shape was probably also a straight or fade ball flight rather than draw.

Here's a related video. Not sure if the intention of OP is to have lower show with check spin for a 2-hop & stop or for more of a running shot. If the former, do you agree with intention of Joe Mayo to hit this shot a bit thin relative to full shot?

Flighting wedges & 'draw' intention:

[iacas]

Problem I'm having is that more often than not I'm pulling these shots.  I hit a few back to back with full wedges just to compare, and almost all of the flighted shots were left to some degree, either a little or a lot.  Full wedges on the other hand were either right online or a tad right.

Any ideas?

When you move the ball back in your stance, I wonder if your alignment is the same.

Here's a related video.

That's not really a related video. Joe's talking about the low checking pitch shot, not a flighted wedge shot from 100 yards or whatever.

[mvmac]

Any ideas?

It's either your alignemnt or just your "bad" tendencies showing up. Right elbow staying too high, left wrist cupped on the downswing.

[SoundandFury]

It's either your alignemnt or just your "bad" tendencies showing up. Right elbow staying too high, left wrist cupped on the downswing.

I hear ya. I just found it odd that full shots are either a very small draw or a tad right, but the delighted wedge is the opposite. I've been working really hard on alignment, since I realized bad alignment (aimed too far right) caused me to subconsicously swing "to the target", i.e., out to in. Could also just be that's it's a new shot and I haven't really dialed it in. Asides from the pulls, I'm liking what I'm seeing though. Takes a lot of pressure off having to flush every wedge shot to hit the distance I want, and they don't seem to be at the mercy of the wind as much.

[dchoye]

Been using this flighted wedge to short iron more often I find for my flighted shot the trajectory I have most control is a tight cut. Whereas my full swing I generally have more control with either a high or low draw

[rusty35]

I've been using the Pelz 4 wedge system for a year now with some success.  was actually thinking about expanding to the 7-8-9 irons with the 10:30 and 9:00 swings. this is basically the same thing, right?

[natureboy]

When you move the ball back in your stance, I wonder if your alignment is the same.

That's not really a related video. Joe's talking about the low checking pitch shot, not a flighted wedge shot from 100 yards or whatever.

My bad. I kinda thought everything inside 100 was effectively a 'pitch' for pros.

[mvmac]

I've been using the Pelz 4 wedge system for a year now with some success.  was actually thinking about expanding to the 7-8-9 irons with the 10:30 and 9:00 swings. this is basically the same thing, right?

I think Pelz wants players to make a "full" followthrough with his system, we're recommending a 3/4 backswing and followthrough. I also wouldn't make 9:00 backswings with a 7 iron, just can't create enough speed.

[iacas]

I think Pelz wants players to make a "full" followthrough with his system, we're recommending a 3/4 backswing and followthrough. I also wouldn't make 9:00 backswings with a 7 iron, just can't create enough speed.

Let's not say it totally like that… I play 3/4 7-irons and the backswing feels like it stops at about the same place as my other shots. The technique works for any club - you just rarely have the chance for it to work below the wedges. But yeah, I'll "flight" my 9I sometimes. My 8I less often. My 7I far less often. Rarely (see below) my 6I or lower.

I also play shorter-than-3/4 7-irons (or 6-I or whatever). I call them "chip" swings even though I might play the 7I from 100 yards out. Now, the situations are awfully rare - the pin is well back on a green that slopes back to front (or a fairway that slopes fairly severely) as the long "chip" 7I will climb the hill better. I'm also pretty rare in doing that - you'll find a lot more players who do this in the UK or on firmer conditions like those on Scottish links courses. I rarely get a chance to play that shot here in the U.S., but when I can I love doing it.

One of my favorite shots in my history of playing golf was a "flighted, chippy" 6I on the Road Hole that flew 90 yards, ran 90, yards, and wound up 12 feet away from the cup. My caddie and I had an entire conversation about whether it had enough or not while the ball was rolling along the humps and hollows on its way to the green.

But yeah, below a 9I, "flighted" or "chippy" shots don't often work out well at all in the U.S.

P.S. One place where I'll hit a "chippy" 7I or 8I from 100-110 yards is the 17th hole at WWGC. The green is well below you so the ball will still come in fairly steeply and stop quickly. I feel it's easier to judge distance with a chippy 8I than a full SW or something.

[Golfingdad]

A little off topic and for that I apologize in advance, but I'm wondering if the concept works for longer clubs.

If the concept with irons is that you gain more control by hitting a 3/4 8-iron instead of a full 9-iron (and I'm on board with that, been doing it for a few weeks, and finding success) then why not, in the case of a short dogleg par 4, for example, play a "flighted" driver instead of a full 3 wood?  Similarly, where 3 wood might be too much and you're thinking about hybrid, go with a "flighted" 3 wood?

[iacas]

A little off topic and for that I apologize in advance, but I'm wondering if the concept works for longer clubs.

If the concept with irons is that you gain more control by hitting a 3/4 8-iron instead of a full 9-iron (and I'm on board with that, been doing it for a few weeks, and finding success) then why not, in the case of a short dogleg par 4, for example, play a "flighted" driver instead of a full 3 wood?  Similarly, where 3 wood might be too much and you're thinking about hybrid, go with a "flighted" 3 wood?

Off the top of my head, two reasons.

1. It's tougher to get your timing down, so many people are more accurate (left and right) with their normal swing than the driver. The lack of loft and the length of the shaft (and the weight of the club) can all negatively affect your timing.
2. The driver and other longer clubs can behave unexpectedly when they're hit softer. They'll carry less, possibly roll more, and so on. They're not as predictable.

I used to play a "bunt driver" on a hole but it was more like I was just hitting the ball like my 3I distance, with the option for it to ROLL a farther than a full 3I would go. But it was a 300-yard straight uphill hole, and thus pretty rare. And some days I'd just hit a 3W full, or a driver full, too if I didn't feel like I was going to mess with the bunkers short/right of the green/fairway.

[billchao]

I also play shorter-than-3/4 7-irons (or 6-I or whatever). I call them "chip" swings even though I might play the 7I from 100 yards out. Now, the situations are awfully rare - the pin is well back on a green that slopes back to front (or a fairway that slopes fairly severely) as the long "chip" 7I will climb the hill better. I'm also pretty rare in doing that - you'll find a lot more players who do this in the UK or on firmer conditions like those on Scottish links courses. I rarely get a chance to play that shot here in the U.S., but when I can I love doing it.

One of my favorite shots in my history of playing golf was a "flighted, chippy" 6I on the Road Hole that flew 90 yards, ran 90, yards, and wound up 12 feet away from the cup. My caddie and I had an entire conversation about whether it had enough or not while the ball was rolling along the humps and hollows on its way to the green.

But yeah, below a 9I, "flighted" or "chippy" shots don't often work out well at all in the U.S.

P.S. One place where I'll hit a "chippy" 7I or 8I from 100-110 yards is the 17th hole at WWGC. The green is well below you so the ball will still come in fairly steeply and stop quickly. I feel it's easier to judge distance with a chippy 8I than a full SW or something.

This is a little OT, but thanks for posting this. I've been playing a course fairly regularly that has some severe slopes into the greens and I've been having a hard time finding the right distance to hit my wedges at (mostly uphill). I'll have to try a "chippy" iron next time.

[mvmac]

Keegan Bradley