Caitlyn Jenner on Cover of Vanity Fair

[colin007]

That's one way to cut a few yards off the course

I wish I could give thumbs in this thread.

damn.  LOLOLOLOL

[Mulligan Jeff]

Webster's has a new word: TransJenner

[Valleygolfer]

I wish I could give thumbs in this thread.

Ha! I was looking for it too....

[RandallT]

A little heavier info, but interesting nonetheless:

[P]olicy makers and the media are doing no favors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment and prevention. This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken—it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.

The transgendered suffer a disorder of “assumption” like those in other disorders familiar to psychiatrists. With the transgendered, the disordered assumption is that the individual differs from what seems given in nature—namely one’s maleness or femaleness. Other kinds of disordered assumptions are held by those who suffer from anorexia and bulimia nervosa, where the assumption that departs from physical reality is the belief by the dangerously thin that they are overweight.

When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings. Some 25% did have persisting feelings; what differentiates those individuals remains to be discerned.

We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into “sex-reassignment surgery”—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as “satisfied” by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a “satisfied” but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.

It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription.

At the heart of the problem is confusion over the nature of the transgendered. “Sex change” is biologically impossible. People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.

In my mind, I've lumped transgender with LGBT, but perhaps medically, the condition is more similar to other psychological disorders where your perception is clearly different from your physical reality? It does seem more of a perception issue than a sexual orientation issue. I hadn't really pondered this aspect much.

If the outcomes of medical "reassignment" are not that great, why do we as a society hail it as being so liberating? There are certainly studies mentioned above that show that suicides after surgery become significantly more likely.

[Gunther]

A little heavier info, but interesting nonetheless: In my mind, I've lumped transgender with LGBT, but perhaps medically, the condition is more similar to other psychological disorders where your perception is clearly different from your physical reality? It does seem more of a perception issue than a sexual orientation issue. I hadn't really pondered this aspect much. If the outcomes of medical "reassignment" are not that great, why do we as a society hail it as being so liberating? There are certainly studies mentioned above that show that suicides after surgery become significantly more likely.

I believe I read this or another similar study, which I alluded to in my earlier post here. Bottom line, people that believe they were born the wrong gender have pretty severe psychological issues. I hope Jenner is one of the rare ones that will find peace but I'm not optimistic.

[Golfingdad]

In my mind, I've lumped transgender with LGBT

(Not sarcasm) ... but isn't that what the "t" stands for?

That was an interesting read, though.

[drdre]

As long as no one is getting hurt, I'm fine with it.  Good for her.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallT

In my mind, I've lumped transgender with LGBT

(Not sarcasm) ... but isn't that what the "t" stands for?

That was an interesting read, though.

I guess I meant to say that I've "lumped" transgender with "LGB" because the media and activists just sold it to me that way, and I've uncritically accepted it.  It almost does the 'T's a disservice by fitting them in, because the condition that they have may be so vastly different and likely far more complex psychologically.

Plus, putting them last in the line makes them look like an afterthought too. It should be TLGB!

[Mac62]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallT

In my mind, I've lumped transgender with LGBT

(Not sarcasm) ... but isn't that what the "t" stands for?

That was an interesting read, though.

I guess I meant to say that I've "lumped" transgender with "LGB" because the media and activists just sold it to me that way, and I've uncritically accepted it.  It almost does the 'T's a disservice by fitting them in, because the condition that they have may be so vastly different and likely far more complex psychologically.

Plus, putting them last in the line makes them look like an afterthought too. It should be TLGB!

It also differs in that the 'LGB' part of it has to do with sexual/gender preference , whereas the 'T' part of it has to do with sexual/gender identity .  Not all trans people are homosexual (which I suppose could actually be considered heterosexual in regards to their 'new' gender identity), or even bisexual.  How they're "lumped together" is that they all face discrimination/persecution, or at the very least are distinguished from the 'mainstream'/majority heterosexual society, based upon non-conforming (to the majority) aspects of their sexuality.  They've faced similar issues with having to suppress/hide their true selves from family, friends, employers/co-workers, etc., and had to deal with similar consequences when "coming out".  Trans people are almost automatically assumed to be gay because they don't conform to societal gender norms, so they have a lot more in common with the gay/lesbian community than they have differences.

[Ernest Jones]

It also differs in that the 'LGB' part of it has to do with sexual/gender preference , whereas the 'T' part of it has to do with sexual/gender identity .  Not all trans people are homosexual (which I suppose could actually be considered heterosexual in regards to their 'new' gender identity), or even bisexual.  How they're "lumped together" is that they all face discrimination/persecution, or at the very least are distinguished from the 'mainstream'/majority heterosexual society, based upon non-conforming (to the majority) aspects of their sexuality.  They've faced similar issues with having to suppress/hide their true selves from family, friends, employers/co-workers, etc., and had to deal with similar consequences when "coming out".  Trans people are almost automatically assumed to be gay because they don't conform to societal gender norms, so they have a lot more in common with the gay/lesbian community than they have differences.

I suspect the relatively high suicide rates are more tied to the issues surrounding the gender reassignment (isolation, guilt, rejection by friends and family) then the gender reassigent itself. Statistics are probably not very useful, due to the "in the closet" aspect of a lot of LGB history, but I suspect if we had better stats we would see a pretty steady decline in suicide rates amongst the LGB community as mainstream acceptance has really skyrocketed as society has become more evolved in its thinking. The "T" part of that group is likely about 60 years behind in terms of acceptance by the general population.