Rushing Because of Faster Players Behind

[iacas]

The workers are still out there, but there are a lot of us golfers out there with them. Just don't hit the workers. I've gotten a lot better by having to avoid the guys cleaning bunkers and moving pins in the dark.

@Lihu , I don't know how to make this more simple for you: you cannot do what you do at every course in the world. Other courses will kick you off and possibly ban you. Some could even have you arrested for trespassing.

Not everyone plays golf at your course(s) where they apparently don't care that you're disrupting the work that takes place at 5:30am.

Just stop.

[Lihu]

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

The workers are still out there, but there are a lot of us golfers out there with them. Just don't hit the workers. I've gotten a lot better by having to avoid the guys cleaning bunkers and moving pins in the dark.

@Lihu, I don't know how to make this more simple for you: you cannot do what you do at every course in the world. Other courses will kick you off and possibly ban you. Some could even have you arrested for trespassing.

Not everyone plays golf at your course(s) where they apparently don't care that you're disrupting the work that takes place at 5:30am.

I'm not going out there illegally, the tee times for the courses do actually start at 5:00-ish. We have a lot of golfers going out early.

Home Courses:

http://brooksidegc.com/cw-koiner-course-1?quicktabs_course_1_booking=0&dt;=20150727&st;=1015&et;=1115

http://brooksidegc.com/eo-nay-course-2

One I played recently:

http://www.ranchosanjoaquin.com/golf-tee-times?quicktabs_3=0&dt;=20150727&st;=1015&et;=1115

Another "home" course:

http://www.sandimasgc.com/golf-tee-times?quicktabs_3=0&dt;=20150727&st;=0500&et;=0600

It seems like quite a few of the "American Golf Courses" have 5:00 tee times, I'll need to check it out before going to an area. https://www.americangolf.com/public-courses

Even Hyatt Hills in Clark, NJ has a 5:30-ish tee time? I went out there at 5:30am one morning and a lady asked if I wanted to go out? The driving range officially opened at 6:00am, but there were people allowed to hit. I suppose it depends what they are doing on the course?

[iacas]

I'm not going out there illegally, the tee times for the courses do actually start at 5:00-ish. We have a lot of golfers going out early.

Home Courses:

http://brooksidegc.com/cw-koiner-course-1?quicktabs_course_1_booking=0&dt;=20150727&st;=1015&et;=1115

http://brooksidegc.com/eo-nay-course-2

One I played recently:

http://www.ranchosanjoaquin.com/golf-tee-times?quicktabs_3=0&dt;=20150727&st;=1015&et;=1115

Please read my post, @Lihu , and tell me where I said that you were going out there illegally.

Stop.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

3 hours for a foursome going first is about right. No dawdling, and regulation or near regulation on every hole. Slower than that leads to extreme frustration, but still no cause to hit into the slow players.

However, it really sounded like an accident in the original post.

I wish I could play with some of you guys, or at least where you play. I'd be available to play a lot more golf if my round was only 3 hours long. This weeks Monday round, I will leave my house at 8am and will be lucky if I return by 3:30pm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007

Why don't you just get up early and get the first tee time of the day?

If it was only that easy! Groups start on both tee #1 and #10 starting at 7:10am every 10 minutes until 9:40am. If you tee off #1 and get to #10 before 9:40am, you will sit and have to wait until 9:50 to hit your tee shot off #10. Being the first group out gives you zero benefit, aside from being able to play the front 9 at any pace you like. The faster you play the front, the longer you have to wait until you are allowed to tee off #10.

**SIDE NOTE** Even if the above wasn't the case, the very first morning tee-time is usually booked up at least a week in advance. Being a local, and using a discount member card, I'm only allowed to book a tee time 48 hours in advance, and am therefore stuck with taking whatever morning tee-time is available (if I want to pay a discounted rate).

I'm with you.  All of these 3 hours foursomes sound a lot like the usual internet fiction, right along with the 300 yard carries.  If as high a percentage of players in real life played in 3 hours as those who do on golf forums, there wouldn't be a slow play problem.

You guys who don't see 9 hole groups starting on #10 clearly don't play course with the sort of traffic that I have most of my life.  Courses I knew best in the Denver area started 9 hole players on the back 9 for the first 1½ - 2 hours each day to maximize income.  My home course did it until about 1:40 after first tee time.  There was almost always a space before the first 18 hole group made the turn, but that was in part because most of the 9 hole groups were smaller than a foursome.  Even the earliest and fastest 18 hole fourballs took 3½ to 4 hours (which is an excellent pace, in my opinion after working as a starter for 5 years).  And playing at that pace they would almost never have been pressed hard enough to need to let anyone play through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

No joke, I often start off at 5:00am. I even got a free glow ball off the first tee on an OC course, the only issue is that I hit it pretty well with the driver (it went 180-200 yards), and probably destroyed the light.

That's a bummer about the courses opening at 7:00am. On my home courses, there are at least 100 people out on both of them by that time. Most of the time spent waiting is for the starter to get us out. . .

Oh, I thought you were kidding. No, you can't just show up and go out on the course at 5:30am. Even if you are a single and fast. Tee-times here start around 7am and the starter won't let you off the tee until your booked time. I'm assuming the workers are still out on the course mowing, raking and putting in pins.

The workers are still out there, but there are a lot of us golfers out there with them. Just don't hit the workers. I've gotten a lot better by having to avoid the guys cleaning bunkers and moving pins in the dark.

My home course always set the first tee time 1/2 hours after the mowers headed out to do the tees and greens.  The new holes were cut during that same time.  That let the mowers stay well ahead of the first players.  The earliest tee time during midsummer was 5:33.

Players during the week would still have to watch for the mowers on the rest of the course during the day, as well as other maintenance chores.

[Lihu]

Yeah, even with hard hats I don't want to hit into them. At first I was really scared to hit, but every one of them has waved me to hit up to them. The main obstacle that early are the sprinklers. If I land in the path I need to time my shot just right to avoid getting soaked. BTW, 3:30 is my average time for that early with cart or walking 3:45 to 4:00. Not that outrageous. . .If I'm first, I usually start 5:00-ish and am in my office before 8:45am. 9 holes, before 7:00. That's ending soon, because I need to take my kids to school and travel to the far east. :-(

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Yeah, even with hard hats I don't want to hit into them. At first I was really scared to hit, but every one of them has waved me to hit up to them. The main obstacle that early are the sprinklers. If I land in the path I need to time my shot just right to avoid getting soaked. BTW, 3:30 is my average time for that early with cart or walking 3:45 to 4:00. Not that outrageous. . .If I'm first, I usually start 5:00-ish and am in my office before 8:45am. 9 holes, before 7:00. That's ending soon, because I need to take my kids to school and travel to the far east. :-(

I can't believe there are 5:15am tee-times. What time does the sun come up? Are you really Far East in a time zone? Never mind. I see the courses you posted are near Pasadena CA. There's no way it's daylight at 5:15am. Even on the longest (daylight) day of the year.

[Golfingdad]

I can't believe there are 5:15am tee-times. What time does the sun come up? Are you really Far East in a time zone? Never mind. I see the courses you posted are near Pasadena CA. There's no way it's daylight at 5:15am. Even on the longest (daylight) day of the year.

Yeah, it's a joke. Only the crappy munis around here do that for extra revenue. Sunrise is almost exactly 6am right now and it's maybe light enough to see for 10-15 minutes before that. So there are 4 or 5 tee times that start before you can see, which is why they give you those stupid glow balls. It's a complete farce, IMO.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

After thinking about it, I'm now wondering why they start tee times so late here. They could easily let people tee off at 6:00am. I'm guess it has to do with double teeing, and needing to block off a section of the morning with no tee times. They would rather tee players from 7-9:30 instead of 6-8:30? I'm sure they have done the research to figure out the best way to maximize revenue during the morning rounds.

[Pretzel]

After thinking about it, I'm now wondering why they start tee times so late here. They could easily let people tee off at 6:00am. I'm guess it has to do with double teeing, and needing to block off a section of the morning with no tee times. They would rather tee players from 7-9:30 instead of 6-8:30? I'm sure they have done the research to figure out the best way to maximize revenue during the morning rounds.

When you tee off both 1 and 10, you need to allow maintenance time to finish preparing twice as much of the course as if tee times only started on hole one. This means that holes 1-4 and 10-13 need to be completely ready before the tee times start (to allow a large enough gap for maintenance to finish the rest of the holes ahead of golfers), but this is assuming you have two maintenance teams with one working each side of the course. The more likely occurrence is that only one group of about 3 or 4 people is working to set up the course in the mornings, meaning that you have to prepare holes 1-13 before any golfers can tee off if you double up on tee times.

These time estimates are based off my experience working morning maintenance at my home course, so different courses vary. My home course has enough bunkers that it takes two people between 2 and 3 hours to rake them all, if one starts from the front and one from the back, using machines such as a Sand Pro, which ends up contributing to most of the setup time since the person mowing the greens can usually move fast enough to keep up with the golfers. Due to the layout of the course and it's bunkers, the front nine actually ends up taking much longer to prepare since the person who starts on the back nine usually rakes bunkers down to about hole 5, where the two people will meet up.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Yeah, even with hard hats I don't want to hit into them. At first I was really scared to hit, but every one of them has waved me to hit up to them.

The main obstacle that early are the sprinklers. If I land in the path I need to time my shot just right to avoid getting soaked.

BTW, 3:30 is my average time for that early with cart or walking 3:45 to 4:00. Not that outrageous. . .If I'm first, I usually start 5:00-ish and am in my office before 8:45am. 9 holes, before 7:00. That's ending soon, because I need to take my kids to school and travel to the far east.

I can't believe there are 5:15am tee-times. What time does the sun come up? Are you really Far East in a time zone?

Never mind. I see the courses you posted are near Pasadena CA. There's no way it's daylight at 5:15am. Even on the longest (daylight) day of the year.

Yeah, people start early around here playing in the dark. At first I thought it was crazy, but now I'm "one of them".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

I can't believe there are 5:15am tee-times. What time does the sun come up? Are you really Far East in a time zone?

Never mind. I see the courses you posted are near Pasadena CA. There's no way it's daylight at 5:15am. Even on the longest (daylight) day of the year.

Yeah, it's a joke. Only the crappy munis around here do that for extra revenue. Sunrise is almost exactly 6am right now and it's maybe light enough to see for 10-15 minutes before that. So there are 4 or 5 tee times that start before you can see, which is why they give you those stupid glow balls.

It's a complete farce, IMO.

Both public and munis. It's so the faster golfers have a chance to beat the crowds. It doesn't really generate more revenue. It probably costs the course a bit more but keeps more of the "regulars" happy.

[colin007]

At my muni, the earliest tee time is 7:30. Freaking joke. Sun has been up for an hour and a half.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

After thinking about it, I'm now wondering why they start tee times so late here. They could easily let people tee off at 6:00am. I'm guess it has to do with double teeing, and needing to block off a section of the morning with no tee times. They would rather tee players from 7-9:30 instead of 6-8:30? I'm sure they have done the research to figure out the best way to maximize revenue during the morning rounds.

When you tee off both 1 and 10, you need to allow maintenance time to finish preparing twice as much of the course as if tee times only started on hole one. This means that holes 1-4 and 10-13 need to be completely ready before the tee times start (to allow a large enough gap for maintenance to finish the rest of the holes ahead of golfers), but this is assuming you have two maintenance teams with one working each side of the course. The more likely occurrence is that only one group of about 3 or 4 people is working to set up the course in the mornings, meaning that you have to prepare holes 1-13 before any golfers can tee off if you double up on tee times.

These time estimates are based off my experience working morning maintenance at my home course, so different courses vary. My home course has enough bunkers that it takes two people between 2 and 3 hours to rake them all, if one starts from the front and one from the back, using machines such as a Sand Pro, which ends up contributing to most of the setup time since the person mowing the greens can usually move fast enough to keep up with the golfers. Due to the layout of the course and it's bunkers, the front nine actually ends up taking much longer to prepare since the person who starts on the back nine usually rakes bunkers down to about hole 5, where the two people will meet up.

Not really - it takes about 10 minutes to mow an average green.  Our crews go out 1/2 hour before sunrise, the first tee time is at sunrise, and nobody has ever caught the green mowers that I ever heard about.  I watched from my starter booth as they finished mowing the 9th and 18 greens, typically 30 to 45 minutes before the first golfers got to those greens, and they walk mow during the main season.

[Golfingdad]

Yeah, people start early around here playing in the dark. At first I thought it was crazy, but now I'm "one of them". :-) Both public and munis. It's so the faster golfers have a chance to beat the crowds. It doesn't really generate more revenue. It probably costs the course a bit more but keeps more of the "regulars" happy.

How would it not generate revenue?

[Lihu]

At my muni, the earliest tee time is 7:30. Freaking joke. Sun has been up for an hour and a half.

I noticed that it seems to get light out early in Boston. I went to Billerica Country Club at 5:30 expecting to stretch out and get on the course first. There were already 2 parties in front of me, and they were slow. . .I hit into them on the 9th blind tee after waiting 10 minutes before teeing off. Fortunately they were nice about it. I started the conversation with "Sorry, I didn't see you. . ."

[iacas]

:offtopic:

[Abu3baid]

I'm the type to feel rushed if I'm playing with slow friends.. I try to get the to rush and say stuff like "their gaining on us" and hinting hey maybe we should let them through.. One time my boss and I were playing and there were 3 playing behind us each in their own cart too.. So, we finish up putting on the green and look back to see two of the guys still on the previous green and one of the guys standing on the tee box waiting to tee off.. I look at my box with this wtf is wrong with this guy? His playing partners haven't even finished putting out, and he is teeing off as if we are holding him back or something.. The funny thing is that he stood there after he tee'd off and just waited for his buddies.. They never ended up catching us since we were playing as two, but I never understood why someone would want to do what he did.. As long as we are keeping up, and the guys behind us aren't pulling out any tricks I try not to feel rushed anymore, we will see how it goes this season as playing on the weekends is like death with 4 hour rounds. Just last Friday we played a slow 2.5 hour front nine, and it was mostly waiting on the group ahead of us, but the back was a smooth 1.45 hour after they sped up thankfully.. Otherwise the temp will go up into the 110-115 and who wants to be out there then?

[colin007]

Ugh...I hate hate HATE playing with slow people...if they weren't friends I'd leave them. Just tell them "sorry there's someplace I gotta be" and just go on to the next hole. People don't know they're slow. 4:30 has become the accepted "standard" but that's slow as eff....

[natureboy]

How do you know they hit into the OP out of frustration? Maybe it was a genuine mistake? It was a one time thing. The OP made things worse for himself by worrying about the guys behind him far earlier than he needed to.

Re-read the quote and the post. I was responding to Buckeye's post that made the assumption or inference and that being hit into was 'inevitable' and that pace of play was relevant to that happening. I don't think there is an acceptable 'excuse' for hitting into a group intentionally & out of frustration . I doubt he was condoning it, but I objected to Buckeye's even seeming to tacitly accept this kind of response in what he wrote. There has been no confirmation of the intent of the offending group in the OP scenario. The apology is noteworthy, but it could have been insincere, particularly likely in a going for the green situation and the player / group on the green is clearly visible or clearly hasn't left the green area, unless it was a botched layup short of the green.

As far as making things 'worse for himself' by worrying earlier than need be, are you saying that maybe he should have played slow to allow them to hit into him sooner or at a more critical / 'orchestrated' time in his round? That's an interesting perspective.