Rushing Because of Faster Players Behind

[MrDC]

Wait, even if there's room in front you won't let them play through? Because you aren't slow? That's irrelevant, you are slower than them and if there is room for them to play through then the right thing to do is allow them to do so.

They way I play and how far I hit compared to them, I could have teed off and hit my second shot before they were even able to finish teeing off. Heck, their second shots wouldn't even have made it to my drive....

And what if they get held up ahead and we have to wait?

[Jeremie Boop]

And what if they get held up ahead and we have to wait?

I did say if it's open in front then you should let them through.

[eich41]

The groups I play with play at what I feel is a normal pace, I've never had a group ask to play through, nor stand around waiting for us to play, because we move along, but being a walking group we have had those riding in front get ahead, that's natural, as long as the players riding know how to do it right they'll beat a walker every time.

So for me, I'll be very reluctant to let a faster group behind play through, the reason being is we're not slow, and the only thing that playing through does for us is create a possible backup ahead, why should we wait? if the group behind is fast and waiting for normal pace of play it's just a congestion issue, I say too bad for them, better luck next time.

Again, another fine example of why slow play is an issue.  SLOWER groups should let FASTER groups play through if there is room ahead.  It's a relative term.  It does not matter if you consider yourself to be a fast group (I don't need to know how quickly you play because it's irrelevant).  If you play at a pace of 3 hours (without a group directly ahead of you) and the group behind is playing at 2:30, then you should by the rules of golf etiquette let them play through.

Furthermore, the logic of "what if they hit a log jam ahead of us and we have to wait for an extra group?" is more silliness.  So you don't let faster groups play through, because somewhere up ahead there could be a log jam that you eventually catch with the group now ahead of you.  So you guarantee that the group(s) behind you will have a slower round because there is a remote possibility that you might have to wait on that group, making your round 5 minutes longer?

It's obviously different when you have a group directly in front of you, especially if you're already waiting on them, but to not let someone play through when there is room ahead of you because you've deemed yourself a fast player is the exact logic that has made slow play a huge issue.

What is it that makes people have such a hard time letting someone play through?  Ego? The thought that someone may be a better golfer? Entitlement?  Whatever the case, you should realize that you are absolutely not following golf etiquette regardless of what pace you've deemed yourself to play at.

[eich41]

I did say if it's open in front then you should let them through.

He seems to be talking about a remote possibility that between his group and 18, there is somewhere the group playing through would get stuck.  Therefore, because that is a possibility, he feels it's his right to dictate everyone's pace behind him, because there is a slight possibility that he may have to wait for an extra group later in the round.  All this despite the fact that he isn't keeping pace with the group ahead as far as he knows....

[Moppy]

Not exactly a fair and unbiased statement.

That's what  I mean. It is not enough to let people who don't really enjoy many of the pleasures of golf to play through, you always have to also acknowledge their superiority too!

[saevel25]

I hate when you are finally let through you suddenly have crappy hole as a collective and the group you just passed is not waiting on you ;)

[Moppy]

And what if they get held up ahead and we have to wait?

This is nonsense. Deal with it if it happens. The golf course is full of human beings who need to get along with each other as best they can in an imperfect world.

[MrDC]

Correct, if there is an open hole ahead, and there is a group waiting behind me, and it's clear they are moving faster then us, we'll offer to let them play through.

But I don't think I've ever seen that scenario, because I'm not a slow player, and this thread is not about slow play, if you want to address that issue, the slow play discussion is that way>

I'm addressing fast play.

I'll try to be more clear- if I'm generally keeping up with the group ahead, but they're moving a bit faster because they're in carts and I'm walking, let's say they leave the green ahead and we're just teeing off, I have no reason to ask a group behind that is playing faster than normal to play through, why should I? the only thing that could happen is we'll get stuck waiting ahead.

I could argue that fast players create a problem on a course as well, because they're rushing it will cause the group behind to rush and then a wait happens, there's a perfect pace to golf, and thankfully I see it on my home course every weekend, because there's never a wait, and there's always golfers playing, its perfect.

[Jon Hoover]

The groups I play with play at what I feel is a normal pace, I've never had a group ask to play through, nor stand around waiting for us to play, because we move along, but being a walking group we have had those riding in front get ahead, that's natural, as long as the players riding know how to do it right they'll beat a walker every time.

So for me, I'll be very reluctant to let a faster group behind play through, the reason being is we're not slow, and the only thing that playing through does for us is create a possible backup ahead, why should we wait? if the group behind is fast and waiting for normal pace of play it's just a congestion issue, I say too bad for them, better luck next time.

It is people like you who ruin pace of play at courses and if your handicap is correct at 36.4 your probably one of the slowest groups on the course. Who made you golf god that you have the power to dictated the pace of play that people have to play behind you, I hope that one day karma takes it revenge on you, matter fact you should probably give up the sport entirely.

[bigwave916]

OK, this thread was an interesting read. Bottom line to me is don't overthink this stuff.....if you can't keep up with the group ahead of you let faster players behind you play through.

[eich41]

It is people like you who ruin pace of play at courses and if your handicap is correct at 36.4 your probably one of the slowest groups on the course. Who made you golf god that you have the power to dictated the pace of play that people have to play behind you, I hope that one day karma takes it revenge on you, matter fact you should probably give up the sport entirely.

That's a bit harsh, but some truth there.  I can't reiterate enough that golf etiquette calls for slowER groups to let fastER groups play through provided there is room in front.  MrDC and the OP seem to think that golf etiquette calls for slow groups to let fast groups play through when there is room.  Those two are NOT the same thing.  Shaq is tall, but Manute Bol is taller.  If they were lining up by height, Shaq would not go to the front because he is tall (although it appears that many people would simply say "well Shaq is tall enough").  You cannot justify keeping faster groups behind you rather than letting them play through because you've deemed yourself to be playing "fast", "fast enough" or "within the allotted time".  Your absolute pace or speed is absolutely positively irrelevant. If there is someone playing faster then the rules of golf etiquette dictate that you let them play through if there is room.  Any attempt to justify otherwise is simply denial and adds to the issue of slow play on the course.

[bubble]

I would invite them through quickly as they are faster and no one is in front of me (or I haven't kept the pace with the players in front witch can happen on a 4 ball behind several two balls and followed by a fast 2-3 ball, this is rare, normally there is a 4 ball somewhere pacing the play on the whole course).

Concerning the fact they hit on me, I would wait to talk immediately and eventually make them eat my SW.

I find very good thought that since no one was ahead of you, you enquired actively on the games behind.

what is very abnormal is that the party behind you never seamed to have to wait even 30 seconds and hit on you on the only hole you were in play.

I think they would have eaten my 4 wedges directly. then saw there bags go in the hazard, then a report for dangerous play at the club house, then there cars dammaged.

beware of many cart golf lovers. they do go fast and want to although it's not golf. it's very often push the ball 7 times on a short par 4 for "speed golfers". If you leave space before you let them go as fast as possible.

[trackster]

It is people like you who ruin pace of play at courses and if your handicap is correct at 36.4 your probably one of the slowest groups on the course. Who made you golf god that you have the power to dictated the pace of play that people have to play behind you, I hope that one day karma takes it revenge on you, matter fact you should probably give up the sport entirely.

I would invite them through quickly as they are faster and no one is in front of me (or I haven't kept the pace with the players in front witch can happen on a 4 ball behind several two balls and followed by a fast 2-3 ball, this is rare, normally there is a 4 ball somewhere pacing the play on the whole course).

Concerning the fact they hit on me, I would wait to talk immediately and eventually make them eat my SW.

I find very good thought that since no one was ahead of you, you enquired actively on the games behind.

what is very abnormal is that the party behind you never seamed to have to wait even 30 seconds and hit on you on the only hole you were in play.

I think they would have eaten my 4 wedges directly. then saw there bags go in the hazard, then a report for dangerous play at the club house, then there cars dammaged.

beware of many cart golf lovers. they do go fast and want to although it's not golf. it's very often push the ball 7 times on a short par 4 for "speed golfers". If you leave space before you let them go as fast as possible.

Well, this thread escalated quickly.

[Moppy]

I do know a guy who absolutely hates to let anybody through. It usually takes me two holes to convince him that I am not enjoying feeling** rushed by people behind me before he gives in. He is a very good friend in regular life, but he becomes a bit of a jerk on the course. It is kind of strange.

** Please note that I fully agree that this is in my own head.

[eich41]

I do know a guy who absolutely hates to let anybody through. It usually takes me two holes to convince him that I am not enjoying feeling** rushed by people behind me before he gives in. He is a very good friend in regular life, but he becomes a bit of a jerk on the course. It is kind of strange.

** Please note that I fully agree that this is in my own head.

There is truly some sort of psychological barrier for some people.  Some make the conscious decision like your friend for whatever reason, and some just try to speed up or just ignore that there are groups that are faster behind them.  As I stated earlier, even ignoring that golf etiquette calls for letting faster groups play through, the result is a more enjoyable experience for everyone.  Faster groups aren't held up and waiting, and the slower groups don't feel rushed by having someone waiting on them.  Instead you have the logic that's shown up in this thread where players justify not letting a faster group play through for a variety of reasons, none of which hold water, but make them feel better about contributing to the problem of slow play.

[MrFlipper]

I would invite them through quickly as they are faster and no one is in front of me (or I haven't kept the pace with the players in front witch can happen on a 4 ball behind several two balls and followed by a fast 2-3 ball, this is rare, normally there is a 4 ball somewhere pacing the play on the whole course).

Concerning the fact they hit on me, I would wait to talk immediately and eventually make them eat my SW.

I find very good thought that since no one was ahead of you, you enquired actively on the games behind.

what is very abnormal is that the party behind you never seamed to have to wait even 30 seconds and hit on you on the only hole you were in play.

I think they would have eaten my 4 wedges directly. then saw there bags go in the hazard, then a report for dangerous play at the club house, then there cars dammaged.

beware of many cart golf lovers. they do go fast and want to although it's not golf. it's very often push the ball 7 times on a short par 4 for "speed golfers". If you leave space before you let them go as fast as possible.

I think the OP may have made that part up, so much of his story makes no sense. Besides, they were nice and apologetic in his narrative. It happens sometimes. No reason to think they did it on purpose, if it even happened at all.

Correct, if there is an open hole ahead, and there is a group waiting behind me, and it's clear they are moving faster then us, we'll offer to let them play through.

But I don't think I've ever seen that scenario, because I'm not a slow player, and this thread is not about slow play, if you want to address that issue, the slow play discussion is that way>

I'm addressing fast play.

I'll try to be more clear- if I'm generally keeping up with the group ahead, but they're moving a bit faster because they're in carts and I'm walking, let's say they leave the green ahead and we're just teeing off, I have no reason to ask a group behind that is playing faster than normal to play through, why should I? the only thing that could happen is we'll get stuck waiting ahead.

I could argue that fast players create a problem on a course as well, because they're rushing it will cause the group behind to rush and then a wait happens, there's a perfect pace to golf, and thankfully I see it on my home course every weekend, because there's never a wait, and there's always golfers playing, its perfect.

If its a par 3, ok. But if its a par 4, you are a gap behind and getting worse. If someone behind you is playing faster, you should let them through. You won't get stuck behind them, they are faster than you. If its a par 5, worse, you are 2 gaps behind, which is a lot.

Maybe the pace of play is perfect for you, but that means nothing to anyone else. Since you are never waiting, odds are you are slower than everyone else. I wonder if the players behind you think it is "perfect". You are just making excuses to not let anyone through. Its ok if others play faster than you. Just don't drive 56 in the fast lane and expect everyone to slow for you because you don't want to go faster or move over.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwave916

Any speculation on what their logic might have been? There are several reasons that I adopted the practice recommended in the "older" rule books. One of them is that when I'm with a group of 3 or 4 and we have to let several singles through in the middle of 18 it does disrupt one's rythm. I play fast as do most people I play with, and I avoid playing with people who play slow.

I guess if it gets more people playing, or keeps people playing, it's good for the game, perhaps that's why they changed their stance. I think I'll stick to my practice of trying to be more flexible when playing as a single.

well, if there are three singles in a row, I'd expect them to join up in to one group rather than to expect to each play through me. Seems very inefficient for them to be seperate groups. I'd also blame the pro shop for allowing that.

A more likely scenario is a group sees a single at 3, 7, 11, 15; in which case, I don't think your timing would be off if your group follows the procedure I outlined earlier in this thread which is to create a foursome for 1.5 holes.

Amen to this!  Those multiple singles are just being selfish if they expect to be allowed to repeatedly delay a foursome while playing through consecutively.  A single does have standing under the Rules of Golf, but his standing is no greater than that of the players he feels entitled to play through.  He has an obligation to respect the foursome just as they have the obligation to respect him.

[No Mulligans]

I sure love it when a slow group let's my group play through.

On the flip side...  There's a course I play, Tecolote Canyon, that has many singles in the early morning.  I've had rounds were our foursome has let 4 different singles play through at some point on a really early morning round (an 18 hole par 58 executive that we generally play in 2 hours).  That probably slowed us down by 15 - 20 minutes.  It's frustrating when by the time you let one single through there's another one immediately on your tail.  I blame it on the course for not pairing up the singles.