Killing Endangered Animals for Sport? Good Idea?

[Abu3baid]

I read the article you linked to and it said none of those things.   I would think that if you are going to reference info in an article you should link to THAT article, not a different article that does not back up what you are claiming. As to the issue, this is classic.  A story comes out with all kinds of assumptions and suppositions and gets emotions inflamed, and then the facts come out and it is less than originally stated.  Lions AREN'T endangered.  The dentist did nothing illegal.  But hey, we all feel good getting pissed off about it. This will be the animals rights equivalent of the confederate flag - using stimulated (and simulated, in some cases, IMO) emotional outrage to try to get a result that cannot be achieved by rational discourse.  IMO

I only quoted from the story I linked.. Why would I not? Here I just clicked on the link again and here is the part about the luring. I didn't claim anything, why would I make stuff up? Also, Not endangered in the sense that they don't have that designation, yet they are on the verge of extinction and agencies are working to put them on the list.. And I hope they do so that in 30 years my grandkids can still go to the zoo and see one.. edit: plus when I am stating my opinion I can base it on multiple stories I might have read and as long as I cite one of the main news distributions of the story I feel comfortable.. Although in this case, all information in the OP is from the story linked!

[newtogolf]

Given lions aren't endangered I'm not quite sure what all the outrage is due to?  Big game hunting has been going on for 100's of years, so it's interesting everyone is flocking to the issue today.  Is everyone upset because people had given the lion a name or that he was "lured" by use of a dead animal off the preserve land?   Does the fact the hunter was a dentist make you angrier?  I don't get it.

I don't hunt, shooting animals that pose no threat to me with guns or bow and arrows doesn't interest me but I'm 100% aware that people do and that when it comes to big game that it's quite expensive.

[Hatchman]

So what? Just because it's a hot topic means people can't be civil to each other? The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know. [rule] As to the OT, no, I have nothing against it, as long as it's done legally. This is only a story because the lion was a pseudo-celebrity. I support wildlife conservation and I don't have a problem with it. In fact, many conservation success stories come from business ventures. The American alligator, for example, or the scimitar-horned oryx. There may not be oryxes in the wild, but the species survives largely because of hunting ranches that breed them. The subject is a lot more complicated than "killing = bad." Interesting that the media singles out this story when countless animals die every day due to illegal poaching, yet people are getting fired up over this instead.

Right, and that's why I stated it to the moderator who commented on a few previous posts. Can't turn left and right at the same time or maybe what your implying as mutually exclusive. What direction does he wish to proceed. IMO - Not for me decide was my impression.

[Lihu]

Given lions aren't endangered I'm not quite sure what all the outrage is due to?  Big game hunting has been going on for 100's of years, so it's interesting everyone is flocking to the issue today.  Is everyone upset because people had given the lion a name or that he was "lured" by use of a dead animal off the preserve land?   Does the fact the hunter was a dentist make you angrier?  I don't get it.

I don't hunt, shooting animals that pose no threat to me with guns or bow and arrows doesn't interest me but I'm 100% aware that people do and that when it comes to big game that it's quite expensive.

I think the splash was made about this story because it was a "celebrity" lion. It would be like if someone killed "Alex" from the movie "Madagascar" if he actually existed. In the story, in fact, hunters lured the lion out of the reserve to shoot it.

The hunter and his guides were a bunch of morons, who decided that killing a reserve lion was a "manly" thing to do. Obviously, the dentist had nothing else to do with his $50,000.

[David in FL]

I only quoted from the story I linked.. Why would I not? Here I just clicked on the link again and here is the part about the luring. I didn't claim anything, why would I make stuff up? Also, Not endangered in the sense that they don't have that designation, yet they are on the verge of extinction and agencies are working to put them on the list.. And I hope they do so that in 30 years my grandkids can still go to the zoo and see one..

You may not realize that you linked another, original article, in your first quote box. That article was referenced, and apparently, let's be generous and say enhanced in the Yahoo article in what appears to be an attempt to sensationalize an otherwise non-story. Just curious, and I have to ask... ....would you be this outraged if it was a Tiger that had been killed?! :-D

[Abu3baid]

You may not realize that you linked another, original article, in your first quote box. That article was referenced, and apparently, let's be generous and say enhanced in the Yahoo article in what appears to be an attempt to sensationalize an otherwise non-story. Just curious, and I have to ask... ....would you be this outraged if it was a Tiger that had been killed?! :-D

Yes.. If it was Bengali Tiger I would be really angry :).. Have you seen how majestic they are? To me I don't care about designations or legality.. To some they need the government to tell them something is legal or illegal.. For me in this case I don't.. But everyone is free to form their opinions of course.. Btw it doesn't matter if they sensationalized it or not, the issue here is glory hunting and it is bigger than this story IMO.. I made a mistake in thee poll as I shouldn't have limited it to endangered animals..

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

You may not realize that you linked another, original article, in your first quote box. That article was referenced, and apparently, let's be generous and say enhanced in the Yahoo article in what appears to be an attempt to sensationalize an otherwise non-story.

Just curious, and I have to ask...

....would you be this outraged if it was a Tiger that had been killed?!

Yes.. If it was Bengali Tiger I would be really angry :).. Have you seen how majestic they are?

To me I don't care about designations or legality.. To some they need the government to tell them something is legal or illegal.. For me in this case I don't.. But everyone is free to form their opinions of course..

Btw it doesn't matter if they sensationalized it or not, the issue here is glory hunting and it is bigger than this story IMO.. I made a mistake in thee poll as I shouldn't have limited it to endangered animals..

I think all tigers are on the endangered species lists? http://www.worldwildlife.org/species/tiger

[David in FL]

Yes.. If it was Bengali Tiger I would be really angry :).. Have you seen how majestic they are? To me I don't care about designations or legality.. To some they need the government to tell them something is legal or illegal.. For me in this case I don't.. But everyone is free to form their opinions of course.. Btw it doesn't matter if they sensationalized it or not, the issue here is glory hunting and it is bigger than this story IMO.. I made a mistake in thee poll as I shouldn't have limited it to endangered animals..

Epic fail on my part. Given the capitalization, I was hoping you would catch the reference to a certain other type of Tiger. The golfing variety. ;-)

[Abu3baid]

Epic fail on my part. Given the capitalization, I was hoping you would catch the reference to a certain other type of Tiger. The golfing variety. ;-)

Ohhhhh... That was slick by you and I was too dense to catch on.. ;)

[Golfingdad]

Just curious, and I have to ask...

....would you be this outraged if it was a Tiger that had been killed?!

Late to the party, but ... this wouldn't fall under the category of "glory" or "trophy" killing at this point but rather euthanasia, no?

Who would have a problem with that?  Paging Dr. Kervorkian ...

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abu3baid

Because I read it in the news and thought it was worth a discussion. No other reason..

I get it. Not golf related. Guess I didn't have to respond. More for the moderator to notice who wants it civil but it's a hot topic.

Civil just means discuss the topic and don't get into the name calling, left/right, bring politics into to it direction. I was attempting to head it off at the pass. No one crossed the line, but I sent out a gentle reminder. Some posts were heading in that direction.

[rehmwa]

Quote:

“, the next lion ...... so that he can insert his own bloodline into the females"

is that what the kids are calling it nowadays?

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

I read the article you linked to and it said none of those things.

I would think that if you are going to reference info in an article you should link to THAT article, not a different article that does not back up what you are claiming.

As to the issue, this is classic.  A story comes out with all kinds of assumptions and suppositions and gets emotions inflamed, and then the facts come out and it is less than originally stated.  Lions AREN'T endangered.  The dentist did nothing illegal.  But hey, we all feel good getting pissed off about it.

This will be the animals rights equivalent of the confederate flag - using stimulated (and simulated, in some cases, IMO) emotional outrage to try to get a result that cannot be achieved by rational discourse.  IMO

I only quoted from the story I linked.. Why would I not? Here I just clicked on the link again and here is the part about the luring.

I didn't claim anything, why would I make stuff up?

Also, Not endangered in the sense that they don't have that designation, yet they are on the verge of extinction and agencies are working to put them on the list.. And I hope they do so that in 30 years my grandkids can still go to the zoo and see one..

edit: plus when I am stating my opinion I can base it on multiple stories I might have read and as long as I cite one of the main news distributions of the story I feel comfortable.. Although in this case, all information in the OP is from the story linked!

This is weird.  I did not see and still do not see any of that stuff in your original post.  Like @David in FL all I saw was the link to  https://www.takepart.com/article/2015/07/22/zimbabwe-famous-lion-now-hunting-trophy.  And none of that stuff was there.

I stand by my point.

[Abu3baid]

This is weird.  I did not see and still do not see any of that stuff in your original post.  Like @David in FL all I saw was the link to  [URL=https://www.takepart.com/article/2015/07/22/zimbabwe-famous-lion-now-hunting-trophy]https://www.takepart.com/article/2015/07/22/zimbabwe-famous-lion-now-hunting-trophy[/URL].  And none of that stuff was there.   I stand by my point.

You are free to do as you wish.. I didn't link that article I linked this one below. [URL]http://news.yahoo.com/american-dentist-killed-zimbabwe-famous-lion-192723625.html[/URL]

[Golfingdad]

You are free to do as you wish.. I didn't link that article I linked this one below.

http://news.yahoo.com/american-dentist-killed-zimbabwe-famous-lion-192723625.html

The confusion arose, I believe, because @David in FL and @turtleback may not have noticed your link.  They were clicking on the "black maned resident" blue text within your text box, not the "lion killed for sport" red text that you added a link to.  Their mistake. ;)

Regardless, the article I read ... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/29/cecil-the-lion-calls-for-prosecution-us-dentist-walter-palmer ... says that they had no permit and it was an illegal hunt.

I don't understand why anybody would defend that.

[Abu3baid]

The confusion arose, I believe, because @David in FL and @turtleback may not have noticed your link.  They were clicking on the "black maned resident" blue text within your text box, not the "lion killed for sport" red text that you added a link to.  Their mistake. ;) Regardless, the article I read ... [URL=http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/29/cecil-the-lion-calls-for-prosecution-us-dentist-walter-palmer]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/29/cecil-the-lion-calls-for-prosecution-us-dentist-walter-palmer[/URL] ... says that they had no permit and it was an illegal hunt. I don't understand why anybody would defend that.

Didn't even notice the other link there lol.. Maybe it's my fault that I didn't color it blue.. I'll do that going forward, thanks for clearing it up.. It seems like they had a permit, just not one to lure the lion off of preservation/protected land.. Many times these animals are still different than ones in the wild.. I'm assuming hunting a lion must be more difficult if you go try to kill it with a bow and arrow while it is with the pride? Maybe one will getcha from behind? So they went after the easy bait and called it a hunt..

[Golfingdad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abu3baid

I'm assuming hunting a lion must be more difficult if you go try to kill it with a bow and arrow while it is with the pride? Maybe one will getcha from behind? So they went after the easy bait and called it a hunt..

Actually, I read from somebody that bow and arrow are common for poachers because of the silence.  Not saying that's why he used one, but I wouldn't be too quick to suggest that he went with bow and arrow for the sake of difficulty.

Luring an animal that is used to humans off protected land so they can easily kill it sounds horrible.  I mean, it doesn't sound that different than if somebody snuck out to the San Diego Safari Park and enticed one of their rhinos through a hole in the fence out into the "wild" just so they could shoot it.

The source of the comment above is only a reddit user, so no authority or anything, but here's the whole quote:

Quote:

I have a friend who works in cheetah conservation in Namibia and is understandably really upset about this... but optimistic because she hopes that it'll teach a few people more about how poaching works in Africa. A few points from her on this:

• Bow hunting is basically the choice these days by poachers in her neck of the woods in Africa because a gunshot can be heard from much further away, but a bow is silent. So while the American guy's defense will be "I had a permit, I assumed everything was done correctly!", well that makes little sense. He likely knew what was up, but how they had to be quiet about it.

• Killing lions like this in Africa is doubly bad because while there are always excess males due to pride structure, hunters always want the best specimens. As such, weaker male lions get to mate who otherwise wouldn't (as the best ones/ their offspring are killed), overall diluting the gene pool.

• The reason it took 40 hours to kill Cecil is because after they shot him it was a bit late, so they went to bed to go track him further in the morning, leaving the animal in pain. Disgusting people.

• Finally, I feel obliged to mention that there is a lot of good hunting in Africa one can do that really helps the locals and that they love. There are literally millions of antelope in Africa that are not endangered, and you can't carry the meat over borders, so bonus for the local villages where they can't afford meat and it gets donated! So you have to be fairly ****ed up to decide you want an endangered species instead.

I also confess my initial reaction is a twinge at the witch hunt this has become... but then I remember seeing the mess this sociopath's life currently is may well deter others who think hunting a lion sounds like fun.

[billchao]

The confusion arose, I believe, because @David in FL and @turtleback may not have noticed your link.  They were clicking on the "black maned resident" blue text within your text box, not the "lion killed for sport" red text that you added a link to.  Their mistake. ;) Regardless, the article I read ... [URL=http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/29/cecil-the-lion-calls-for-prosecution-us-dentist-walter-palmer]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/29/cecil-the-lion-calls-for-prosecution-us-dentist-walter-palmer[/URL] ... says that they had no permit and it was an illegal hunt. I don't understand why anybody would defend that.

That would change everything. Killing the lion illegally basically makes him a poacher.