Taking good balls from range buckets

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Golf dome?

In some areas of the country with harsh winters, there are driving ranges inside of domes. There is one in upstate NY in Latham and one at Turning Stone Resort as well.

[dkolo]

In some areas of the country with harsh winters, there are driving ranges inside of domes. There is one in upstate NY.

Two golfers enter, one golfer leaves.

[newtogolf]

Good point Drew. Or the guy who pays for unlimited balls each month and invites 4 of his golfing buddies to join in on the freebies every time he hits the range. Or the guy who hits his last 10 balls off the recovering grass, even though the range is clearly operating as mats only.

Honestly the debate is so minor I'm genuinely stunned that it has garnered so many replies. On a range owner's list of business concerns, the guy who pockets the 1 pro-v out of 500 that he leases probably wouldn't crack the top 50.

No one is saying this is a major crime or trying to shame anyone (at least I'm not) but no matter how minor, it's theft.  I'd rather see people just own up to it rather than attempt to justify it or defend it.  It reminded me of the "lost ball thread" where some were trying to justify why they don't follow the rules because it's not fair when you think the ball landed on the fairway and you can't find it.

@Golfingdad purchase my golf balls before I choose a stall.  If there are golf balls left behind in the stall from the previous person I take the bucket and move it outside of my stall.  I also bring my own golf balls (cheap ones that I get as gifts or won't use during a round) that I'll hit with driver and some other select clubs so I have a good idea of my current yardages since the range balls are usually pretty beat up this time of year.

[Sante TwoGloves]

No one is saying this is a major crime or trying to shame anyone (at least I'm not) but no matter how minor, it's theft.  I'd rather see people just own up to it rather than attempt to justify it or defend it.  It reminded me of the "lost ball thread" where some were trying to justify why they don't follow the rules because it's not fair when you think the ball landed on the fairway and you can't find it. @Golfingdad , I usually purchase my golf balls before I choose a stall.  If there are golf balls left behind in the stall from the previous person I take the bucket and move it outside of my stall.  I also bring my own golf balls (cheap ones that I get as gifts or won't use during a round) that I'll hit with driver and some other select clubs so I have a good idea of my current yardages since the range balls are usually pretty beat up this time of year.

Did you ask the range if it was ok to use the rent time you paid for to hit your own balls?

[iacas]

Did you ask the range if it was ok to use the rent time you paid for to hit your own balls?

That's not the same thing unless there are people waiting (and even then, not the same thing), and I suspect @newtogolf wouldn't hit his "extra" balls (that he supplies) if there are people waiting. Thus he's simply donating balls to the range.

[newtogolf]

Did you ask the range if it was ok to use the rent time you paid for to hit your own balls?

No I didn't but it usually works out to their advantage since there are usually more balls in the bucket that I won't even bother hitting because they are either chewed up or rocks compared to the ones I hit from out of my bag, but nice try.

Still trying to justify and defend why you steal golf balls I see.

[Sante TwoGloves]

I asked the pro at my club- Q- "If I discovered a brand new Pro V among the range balls, and took it, what would you say about that?" A- "Of course you should take it. It's not a range ball." Yep. Makes sense to me.

BABBA BOOEY !!!! :cheer:

[Golfingdad]

No one is saying this is a major crime or trying to shame anyone (at least I'm not) but no matter how minor, it's theft.  I'd rather see people just own up to it rather than attempt to justify it or defend it.  It reminded me of the "lost ball thread" where some were trying to justify why they don't follow the rules because it's not fair when you think the ball landed on the fairway and you can't find it. @Golfingdad , I usually purchase my golf balls before I choose a stall.  If there are golf balls left behind in the stall from the previous person I take the bucket and move it outside of my stall.  I also bring my own golf balls (cheap ones that I get as gifts or won't use during a round) that I'll hit with driver and some other select clubs so I have a good idea of my current yardages since the range balls are usually pretty beat up this time of year.

I get it, I just think that calling it theft or stealing puts it on par with actual crimes and thus diminishes those somewhat. I also think the ownership of the ball by the range due to the fact that they picked it up and cleaned it is being oversold.

[Sante TwoGloves]

No I didn't but it usually works out to their advantage since there are usually more balls in the bucket that I won't even bother hitting because they are either chewed up or rocks compared to the ones I hit from out of my bag, but nice try. Still trying to justify and defend why you steal golf balls I see.

No sir but I have to inform you that YOU are the one stealing. You are using the time to not do as was contracted and that is hit their range balls. You are using that time to hit your own balls without their consent. Hitting your own balls as I tried to establish earlier is putting hay into their system that they did not ask you to do. More manpower is required now for places who sort, more grief for the range owner trying to make his product consistent with his or her own balls, not yours. Like I said to you before, think about the range owner and not your convoluted idea of what is stealing.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

No sir but I have to inform you that YOU are the one stealing. You are using the time to not do as was contracted and that is hit their range balls. You are using that time to hit your own balls without their consent. Hitting your own balls as I tried to establish earlier is putting hay into their system that they did not ask you to do. More manpower is required now for places who sort, more grief for the range owner trying to make his product consistent with his or her own balls, not yours. Like I said to you before, think about the range owner and not your convoluted idea of what is stealing.

This discussion has become absurd.

[Sante TwoGloves]

That's not the same thing unless there are people waiting (and even then, not the same thing), and I suspect @newtogolf wouldn't hit his "extra" balls (that he supplies) if there are people waiting. Thus he's simply donating balls to the range.

Please see my explanation above. Unfortunately we have people here who are stealing and not admitting it. Sad.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sante TwoGloves

No sir but I have to inform you that YOU are the one stealing. You are using the time to not do as was contracted and that is hit their range balls. You are using that time to hit your own balls without their consent. Hitting your own balls as I tried to establish earlier is putting hay into their system that they did not ask you to do. More manpower is required now for places who sort, more grief for the range owner trying to make his product consistent with his or her own balls, not yours. Like I said to you before, think about the range owner and not your convoluted idea of what is stealing.

This discussion has become absurd.

So, you might also think it's stealing to take let's say 30 seconds to hit each ball instead of 20 seconds or something to that effect?

[Sante TwoGloves]

So, you might also think it's stealing to take let's say 30 seconds to hit each ball instead of 20 seconds or something to that effect?

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/216#post_1196023"] So, you might also think it's stealing to take let's say 30 seconds to hit each ball instead of 20 seconds or something to that effect? [/quote] You are being absurd now but try and just hang out, have a cookout, whatever. That won't work for long. You are expected to complete your contract in a timely matter that is for sure. Don't clutter up their business with your own balls when you didn't even ask permission. That certainly is stealing with my moral compass. Again, one other poster got to the heart of the matter. What would Jesus do? Ok, not religious are you? What would jack do?

[iacas]

I get it, I just think that calling it theft or stealing puts it on par with actual crimes and thus diminishes those somewhat.

Whether you steal a pack of gum or something worth more it's still theft. I haven't seen anyone equating it with grand larceny. [quote name="Sante TwoGloves" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/210#post_1196020"] Please see my explanation above. Unfortunately we have people here who are stealing and not admitting it. Sad.[/quote] Your explanation was lame. You have not rented a specific amount of time nor are you depriving the range owner of anything if the range does not have a line of people waiting. Absurd is about right.

[Golfingdad]

Whether you steal a pack of gum or something worth more it's still theft. I haven't seen anyone equating it with grand larceny. Your explanation was lame. You have not rented a specific amount of time nor are you depriving the range owner of anything if the range does not have a line of people waiting. Absurd is about right.

Not really ... There's a level below which it becomes a non issue and I think this is close. Not that it's not "technically" stealing perhaps, but rather that it's so minor. Like stealing a flower or an orange from a neighbors plant or tree. And their level of ownership is still very suspect to me.

[Mr. Desmond]

Like everything, there is a general rule and exceptions to the general rule.

I say the general rule is that taking any balls from a range and pocketing them is taking property that does not belong to you.

The exception to the general rule is asking the range/club if you find a decent ball not marked a range ball do you mind if I take one or two of them ? He'd probably mind if you went through the range or range collection basket and began searching through a hundred or a  thousand balls, but ask. My guess is that would raise eyebrows. Taking one or two with the range's permission is the exception to the general rule. BUT ask.

____

Here is a real life example from Bloomberg Business:

Your country club might not be as secure as you think. In Newtown Square, Pa., three men and a woman, all from Michigan, were arrested on April 18 for stealing golf balls out of ponds at White Manor Country Club in Willistown and Aronimink Golf Club in Newtown Square, police say. The cops found the four suspects and 8,000 golf balls inside a van with a trailer outside Aronimink Country Club, reported Malvern Patch .

Dick Naumann, general manager at Aronimink Golf Club, tells Bloomberg Businessweek that the police department usually sends a car through the property at night. Around 3:30 a.m., he says, the club’s assistant manager and golf pro received calls from officers who had pulled two individuals in wet suits out of a pond after they noticed lights on the course.

The alleged thieves include Daniel Curry, 31, who says he owns a ball-retrieval and -reconditioning business called Plus 1, but did not have permission to be at either country club, states the police report. Curry told a judge he has contracts to retrieve balls from other clubs in the area and mistakenly thought they included these two properties. The four face charges of theft, receiving stolen property, and defiant trespass, Malvern Patch reported.

Okay, so you can't walk onto a course and start taking lost balls without permission. The fact that clubs contract with others to find the lost balls and pay the club for them tells you the law considers the club owns the balls and can sell them.

“They absolutely did not have a contract with us,” Naumann says. “We don’t hire people for that. We are in the business of selling new golf balls.” Naumann was told about 800 balls were retrieved from Aronimink. Usually, the task of collecting balls is left to neighbors’ children, who make a few dollars from them.

Club members are permitted on the property at night and can dive for golf balls if so inclined, Naumann says. “You’d raise a few eyebrows if you showed up at 3:30 in a wetsuit. You wouldn’t get arrested for it, but you might get sent to the looney bin.”

Above, Member have permission to take balls.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

So, you might also think it's stealing to take let's say 30 seconds to hit each ball instead of 20 seconds or something to that effect?

You are being absurd now but try and just hang out, have a cookout, whatever. That won't work for long. You are expected to complete your contract in a timely matter that is for sure. Don't clutter up their business with your own balls when you didn't even ask permission. That certainly is stealing with my moral compass. Again, one other poster got to the heart of the matter. What would Jesus do? Ok, not religious are you? What would jack do?

You stated several times that the time it takes to hit a few extra balls as stealing, and I just asked you if taking more time to hit balls is also stealing. Logical question given your repeated statement, no?

[Sante TwoGloves]

You stated several times that the time it takes to hit a few extra balls as stealing, and I just asked you if taking more time to hit balls is also stealing. Logical question given your repeated statement, no?

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/84262/taking-good-balls-from-range-buckets/216#post_1196050"] You stated several times that the time it takes to hit a few extra balls as stealing, and I just asked you if taking more time to hit balls is also stealing. Logical question given your repeated statement, no? [/quote] You pay for the time to hit their balls, not yours. In my mind clearer more than ever you are doing the range owners a favor by not hitting non range balls into their range, and an even bigger favor taking out the weeds from their crop. To hit your own balls without permission you are stealing plan and simple.