The Future of golf

[Lihu]

I'm with Jack Nicklaus on this limit the distance the ball can fly period...this will bring the skill back and will bring back shorter courses...Roll back the size of the drivers to 250...Have courses at 5600 yds. tops...Design some courses with the first 9 holes IRON ONLY holes...the last 9 open no trees DRIVER WOOD holes...If you want to play a fast 9 you can play whichever 9 you want...Want to do drivers 9 or iron 9...or both Design some greens that have no holes just zones...different zones more points....only 2 putts allowed on some and 1 putt on others.. Get rid of bunkers...I've always thought bunkers were stupid anyway different roughs are better tests.. Only 2 elevated greens per course...This brings back pitch and runs with no bunkers..Everyone rides no walking.. Todays courses are getting to be courses you just swing out of your shoes on every shot. Just look at a airplane view of these new courses almost every hole is a dead straight hole.. Smaller faster courses that promote fast play Open driving ranges that are more like playing holes....There's a lot more they can do

I agree that playing tees appropriate for you will speed up play, but shorter ball distances will certainly do the opposite. Most people I know do not swing out of their shoes so to speak, so maybe you should also stop and play shorter courses with long distance balls?

[BubblesUSMC]

The future I see...  after all my years in this industry.

1. Certain manufactures are going to drown and die, their manufacturing model isn't sustainable.

2. About 2500 golf courses in the US need to cease to exist. We over built in the 90s and have too many absentee owners who are not in the industry and do not / will not understand the industry (I've eaten in 1000 restaurants, but it doesn't mean I know how to run one.)

3. Operators and the PGA need to step up their game and start focusing on the creation of new golfers and making the sport fun for the beginner.  Get Golf Ready, is a great step, Golf boards are awesome, Laser Glow Golf Range is sweet... many new things to see and do.

4. Executive Par 3 courses - I see these being added to courses, I plan to add one myself.  I do not see 6 hole and 12 hole courses being "built".  I see the courses that are failing being turned into 6 hole golf schools and learning centers, with club fitting and retail. Sell the rest of the land and cut expenses. (well thats what I hope they start doing because that's what our industry needs to take back over again) Get away from this big box nonsense, and get back to green grass.

5. PLAYING THE RIGHT SET OF TEES.  I'm sorry but I shame a lot of male golfers into realizing that maybe your 20 handicap means you shouldn't be playing 498 yard par 4s.  Sorry guys you arent tough, you drive as far as you think you do and you barely use 3 levers in your golf swing so you absolutely DO NOT need that extra stiff shaft with your 92mph swing speed.  Got a problem?  I just cross my arms so they can see "MARINE" tattooed across my forearms.

lol all joking aside though I'm adding a 5th set of tees, I'm flipping the colors so that Red are the Tips.  People have become so fixated on colors of tees when they should be looking at the handicap recommendations from the pro to play the appropriate set of tees!

All in all I'm excited about the future of the sport.  I'm a traditionalist and I dont think we need to change much... I think we need to get back to the roots of the sport and stop trying to gimmick everything.  Courses need to get back to focusing on service, both on the course, in the clubhouse, and retail.  And the golfer needs to start realizing that "if you dont practice, you will not improve, and no, playing a round ISNT practice".  lol but that will never happen.

[Divotmaker77]

Agree with making the courses more walker friendly.  I am at an age where I can handle longer courses with hills, etc. but some courses have really long distances to the next tee box making it impossible for someone to walk and keep pace of play.  As I get older I would love to be able to play courses that are easier to walk and keep pace of play plus get the great exercise someone wants to get by walking.

Torn on larger holes.  Not sure how to do it, but what about having two different holes on each green with a flag with a color representing which size hole you are hitting at.  Put the larger hole in an easier section of the green and the current size hole at an adequate distance away from the larger hole.  Not saying to do this on all courses, but some courses could have certain days they do this (weekends) and then take the large hole out for a few days of the week when folks want to play the traditional hole sizes without having too different flags on a hole.  Seems crazy now, but maybe it would work.

Torn on synthetic greens because I think it would be very difficult to get the ball to stick.  Tee box wise, good idea as long as courses keep the the turf in good shape and not let it wear out like you see at a lot of ranges that have the synthetic mats.

[Duff McGee]

The future I see...  after all my years in this industry. 1. Certain manufactures are going to drown and die, their manufacturing model isn't sustainable. 2. About 2500 golf courses in the US need to cease to exist. We over built in the 90s and have too many absentee owners who are not in the industry and do not / will not understand the industry (I've eaten in 1000 restaurants, but it doesn't mean I know how to run one.) 3. Operators and the PGA need to step up their game and start focusing on the creation of new golfers and making the sport fun for the beginner.  Get Golf Ready, is a great step, Golf boards are awesome, Laser Glow Golf Range is sweet... many new things to see and do. 4. Executive Par 3 courses - I see these being added to courses, I plan to add one myself.  I do not see 6 hole and 12 hole courses being "built".  I see the courses that are failing being turned into 6 hole golf schools and learning centers, with club fitting and retail. Sell the rest of the land and cut expenses. (well thats what I hope they start doing because that's what our industry needs to take back over again) Get away from this big box nonsense, and get back to green grass. 5. PLAYING THE RIGHT SET OF TEES.  I'm sorry but I shame a lot of male golfers into realizing that maybe your 20 handicap means you shouldn't be playing 498 yard par 4s.  Sorry guys you arent tough, you drive as far as you think you do and you barely use 3 levers in your golf swing so you absolutely DO NOT need that extra stiff shaft with your 92mph swing speed.  Got a problem?  I just cross my arms so they can see "MARINE" tattooed across my forearms. lol all joking aside though I'm adding a 5th set of tees, I'm flipping the colors so that Red are the Tips.  People have become so fixated on colors of tees when they should be looking at the handicap recommendations from the pro to play the appropriate set of tees! All in all I'm excited about the future of the sport.  I'm a traditionalist and I dont think we need to change much... I think we need to get back to the roots of the sport and stop trying to gimmick everything.  Courses need to get back to focusing on service, both on the course, in the clubhouse, and retail.  And the golfer needs to start realizing that "if you dont practice, you will not improve, and no, playing a round ISNT practice".  lol but that will never happen.

You bring up a good point. This could just be weird random experiences, but I feel that customer service at local munis are generally awful. You get a great worker at just about every place but also the absolute jerks who basically let you know they don't want to help you and basically hate anything to do with their jobs.

[newtogolf]

The future I see...  after all my years in this industry.

1. Certain manufactures are going to drown and die, their manufacturing model isn't sustainable.

2. About 2500 golf courses in the US need to cease to exist. We over built in the 90s and have too many absentee owners who are not in the industry and do not / will not understand the industry (I've eaten in 1000 restaurants, but it doesn't mean I know how to run one.)

3. Operators and the PGA need to step up their game and start focusing on the creation of new golfers and making the sport fun for the beginner.  Get Golf Ready, is a great step, Golf boards are awesome, Laser Glow Golf Range is sweet... many new things to see and do.

4. Executive Par 3 courses - I see these being added to courses, I plan to add one myself.  I do not see 6 hole and 12 hole courses being "built".  I see the courses that are failing being turned into 6 hole golf schools and learning centers, with club fitting and retail. Sell the rest of the land and cut expenses. (well thats what I hope they start doing because that's what our industry needs to take back over again) Get away from this big box nonsense, and get back to green grass.

5. PLAYING THE RIGHT SET OF TEES.  I'm sorry but I shame a lot of male golfers into realizing that maybe your 20 handicap means you shouldn't be playing 498 yard par 4s.  Sorry guys you arent tough, you drive as far as you think you do and you barely use 3 levers in your golf swing so you absolutely DO NOT need that extra stiff shaft with your 92mph swing speed.  Got a problem?  I just cross my arms so they can see "MARINE" tattooed across my forearms.

lol all joking aside though I'm adding a 5th set of tees, I'm flipping the colors so that Red are the Tips.  People have become so fixated on colors of tees when they should be looking at the handicap recommendations from the pro to play the appropriate set of tees!

All in all I'm excited about the future of the sport.  I'm a traditionalist and I dont think we need to change much... I think we need to get back to the roots of the sport and stop trying to gimmick everything.  Courses need to get back to focusing on service, both on the course, in the clubhouse, and retail.  And the golfer needs to start realizing that "if you dont practice, you will not improve, and no, playing a round ISNT practice".  lol but that will never happen.

Can't see how closing 2500 courses in the US helps golf.  It might help the courses that survive but for golfers it means less options and longer waits.

Executive Par 3 courses are for not popular here on Long Island.  They are fun for one or two rounds a season but no one would want to play them exclusively, not even beginners.

I agree about playing the right set of tees.  I like the idea of switching up the colors of the tee boxes.

[Lihu]

The future I see...  after all my years in this industry.

1. Certain manufactures are going to drown and die, their manufacturing model isn't sustainable.

2. About 2500 golf courses in the US need to cease to exist. We over built in the 90s and have too many absentee owners who are not in the industry and do not / will not understand the industry (I've eaten in 1000 restaurants, but it doesn't mean I know how to run one.)

3. Operators and the PGA need to step up their game and start focusing on the creation of new golfers and making the sport fun for the beginner.  Get Golf Ready, is a great step, Golf boards are awesome, Laser Glow Golf Range is sweet... many new things to see and do.

4. Executive Par 3 courses - I see these being added to courses, I plan to add one myself.  I do not see 6 hole and 12 hole courses being "built".  I see the courses that are failing being turned into 6 hole golf schools and learning centers, with club fitting and retail. Sell the rest of the land and cut expenses. (well thats what I hope they start doing because that's what our industry needs to take back over again) Get away from this big box nonsense, and get back to green grass.

5. PLAYING THE RIGHT SET OF TEES.  I'm sorry but I shame a lot of male golfers into realizing that maybe your 20 handicap means you shouldn't be playing 498 yard par 4s.  Sorry guys you arent tough, you drive as far as you think you do and you barely use 3 levers in your golf swing so you absolutely DO NOT need that extra stiff shaft with your 92mph swing speed.  Got a problem?  I just cross my arms so they can see "MARINE" tattooed across my forearms.

lol all joking aside though I'm adding a 5th set of tees, I'm flipping the colors so that Red are the Tips.  People have become so fixated on colors of tees when they should be looking at the handicap recommendations from the pro to play the appropriate set of tees!

All in all I'm excited about the future of the sport.  I'm a traditionalist and I dont think we need to change much... I think we need to get back to the roots of the sport and stop trying to gimmick everything.  Courses need to get back to focusing on service, both on the course, in the clubhouse, and retail.  And the golfer needs to start realizing that "if you dont practice, you will not improve, and no, playing a round ISNT practice".  lol but that will never happen.

Cool getting a professional's perspective on this. I like the 3rd item.

What sorts of things do you think could make the game more interesting for people who initially take up the game?

I have had some experience watching many children take up and drop out of the game. Many programs like First Tee really get kids to take up the sport, and I agree that the sustaining rate is not that good. I've watched many children drop out for lack of interest and/or talent to keep the ball in play.

As for item 5, what mid/high handicap would look at a 500 yard par 4 and think they can consistently make that length hole in 2 or 3 or 4 to the green? Honestly, I don't really see you as needing to "shame" them per se. It's just getting them to understand that it's going to be a miserable experience for them to try it.

BTW, when you talk of "levers", is this what you mean?

Can't see how closing 2500 courses in the US helps golf.  It might help the courses that survive but for golfers it means less options and longer waits.

Executive Par 3 courses are for not popular here on Long Island.  They are fun for one or two rounds a season but no one would want to play them exclusively, not even beginners.

Agree on the first point.

Par 3 courses are really great for working on your approach game. You could get some confidence hitting an actual pin instead of guessing at the driving range. Just another avenue for practicing shots from 70 to 150 yards.

[BubblesUSMC]

Cool getting a professional's perspective on this. I like the 3rd item.

What sorts of things do you think could make the game more interesting for people who initially take up the game?

I have had some experience watching many children take up and drop out of the game. Many programs like First Tee really get kids to take up the sport, and I agree that the sustaining rate is not that good. I've watched many children drop out for lack of interest and/or talent to keep the ball in play.

As for item 5, what mid/high handicap would look at a 500 yard par 4 and think they can consistently make that length hole in 2 or 3 or 4 to the green? Honestly, I don't really see you as needing to "shame" them per se. It's just getting them to understand that it's going to be a miserable experience for them to try it.

Dad (the 42 year class A PGA pro) is huge into youth golf which obviously has been passed on to my massive consideration when it comes to the subject.

We've invested highly into Birdie Ball, inflatable, fun family type golf games, and even special birdie ball 9 hole golf courses which we can set up anywhere.

To me getting the kids involved is obviously about the fun.  They love seeing the ball fly, the birdie ball flies better then any other practice ball and makes funny sounds which they love.  The simple 1 club courses we can set up with it allows us to make a course just around the clubhouse or the range, anywhere.  Which alleviates the stress to the parents and the course with having children possibly slowing the pace of play.  (when I was younger dad had a system for when he took me out golfing with him which allowed me to play, but obviously not every shot, but it kept me highly involved)

also back when I was growing up there was youth tournaments.  With the creation of the Jr. Golf League and creating more of a team aspect of the sport I think that is a GREAT step forward that the PGA has taken.

As for adults starting, it differs from male to female.  Is why I like to have female PGA / LPGA on staff for running female clinics and our 9 and wine events and such.  The ladies enjoy more of the social aspect and NOT having the guys stand over their shoulders telling them what they are doing wrong / right.  So focusing on that aspect. creating group clinics, encourages their participation and gives them a group of ladies to befriend and go out and play once they feel they are ready.

Males suffer more for what I will call "embarrassment" when starting out. embarrassed that they cannot strike the ball as well, hit as far, putt as well, equipment not as good... I know I'm generalizing but this is the reality i've seen.  Guys seem to get focused on competition in many different levels both physically and psychologically. For newer male golfers Dad likes to set goals and then allow for understanding of the mental side of the game.  We like to teach them that equipment doesnt make the player, everyone has their OWN golf swing and that is OK.  Taking their skill sets up in blocks with challenges to their practice, their goals and making sure they remember the reason we love the game is that it is fun, and requires great personal characteris and values.

I feel many operators today dont realize that by not taking these things into consideration, and just getting focused on # of rounds / year makes them lose focus of why they got into this business in the first place.  Service, atmosphere, belonging, and fun are really what makes a course more successful over another.  But it requires hard work and long hours... and too many people just want to show up at 9 and leave at 5.  My old man STILL every morning will go out and mow a bit, then come and manage a tournament or outing, then go teach some lessons / clinics, after that play a few holes, come back and socialize with the members and the guests, do a club fitting or two, then maybe break out the weed eater until dark to make sure the clubhouse looks perfect... again its not work when you love it... but the passion isnt there for everyone like it is for us.

Lastly, item #5 is really just for those guys who SWEAR to me that my Launch Monitor is WRONG and they can clearly drive 350 yards all day consistently! lol I just find that amusing.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Cool getting a professional's perspective on this. I like the 3rd item.

What sorts of things do you think could make the game more interesting for people who initially take up the game?

I have had some experience watching many children take up and drop out of the game. Many programs like First Tee really get kids to take up the sport, and I agree that the sustaining rate is not that good. I've watched many children drop out for lack of interest and/or talent to keep the ball in play.

As for item 5, what mid/high handicap would look at a 500 yard par 4 and think they can consistently make that length hole in 2 or 3 or 4 to the green? Honestly, I don't really see you as needing to "shame" them per se. It's just getting them to understand that it's going to be a miserable experience for them to try it.

Dad (the 42 year class A PGA pro) is huge into youth golf which obviously has been passed on to my massive consideration when it comes to the subject.

We've invested highly into Birdie Ball, inflatable, fun family type golf games, and even special birdie ball 9 hole golf courses which we can set up anywhere.

To me getting the kids involved is obviously about the fun.  They love seeing the ball fly, the birdie ball flies better then any other practice ball and makes funny sounds which they love.  The simple 1 club courses we can set up with it allows us to make a course just around the clubhouse or the range, anywhere.  Which alleviates the stress to the parents and the course with having children possibly slowing the pace of play.  (when I was younger dad had a system for when he took me out golfing with him which allowed me to play, but obviously not every shot, but it kept me highly involved)

also back when I was growing up there was youth tournaments.  With the creation of the Jr. Golf League and creating more of a team aspect of the sport I think that is a GREAT step forward that the PGA has taken.

As for adults starting, it differs from male to female.  Is why I like to have female PGA / LPGA on staff for running female clinics and our 9 and wine events and such.  The ladies enjoy more of the social aspect and NOT having the guys stand over their shoulders telling them what they are doing wrong / right.  So focusing on that aspect. creating group clinics, encourages their participation and gives them a group of ladies to befriend and go out and play once they feel they are ready.

Males suffer more for what I will call "embarrassment" when starting out. embarrassed that they cannot strike the ball as well, hit as far, putt as well, equipment not as good... I know I'm generalizing but this is the reality i've seen.  Guys seem to get focused on competition in many different levels both physically and psychologically. For newer male golfers Dad likes to set goals and then allow for understanding of the mental side of the game.  We like to teach them that equipment doesnt make the player, everyone has their OWN golf swing and that is OK.  Taking their skill sets up in blocks with challenges to their practice, their goals and making sure they remember the reason we love the game is that it is fun, and requires great personal characteris and values.

I feel many operators today dont realize that by not taking these things into consideration, and just getting focused on # of rounds / year makes them lose focus of why they got into this business in the first place.  Service, atmosphere, belonging, and fun are really what makes a course more successful over another.  But it requires hard work and long hours... and too many people just want to show up at 9 and leave at 5.  My old man STILL every morning will go out and mow a bit, then come and manage a tournament or outing, then go teach some lessons / clinics, after that play a few holes, come back and socialize with the members and the guests, do a club fitting or two, then maybe break out the weed eater until dark to make sure the clubhouse looks perfect... again its not work when you love it... but the passion isnt there for everyone like it is for us.

Lastly, item #5 is really just for those guys who SWEAR to me that my Launch Monitor is WRONG and they can clearly drive 350 yards all day consistently! lol I just find that amusing.

This sounds really great. What's missing is passion, just like you and your dad have for this game.

We have a local par 3 in my town that has similar passion, and it is the most popular place in our area. The owner goes out and picks balls and looks at the driving range. He even walks up to various players and helps them out. He doesn't even have an office. He just hits balls in the end stall, and does stuff when needed.

There are hundreds of kids taking up the game at this course.

Passion for the game is what's really missing. I, now, understand why you think 2500 courses should just shut down. If a person comes to golf, it should be at a place where they are totally passionate about making golfers and not just profit. . .

Thanks for the explanation.

[DrvFrShow]

The future I see...  after all my years in this industry.

1. Certain manufactures are going to drown and die, their manufacturing model isn't sustainable.

2. About 2500 golf courses in the US need to cease to exist. We over built in the 90s and have too many absentee owners who are not in the industry and do not / will not understand the industry (I've eaten in 1000 restaurants, but it doesn't mean I know how to run one.)

3. Operators and the PGA need to step up their game and start focusing on the creation of new golfers and making the sport fun for the beginner.  Get Golf Ready, is a great step, Golf boards are awesome, Laser Glow Golf Range is sweet... many new things to see and do.

4. Executive Par 3 courses - I see these being added to courses, I plan to add one myself.  I do not see 6 hole and 12 hole courses being "built".  I see the courses that are failing being turned into 6 hole golf schools and learning centers, with club fitting and retail. Sell the rest of the land and cut expenses. (well thats what I hope they start doing because that's what our industry needs to take back over again) Get away from this big box nonsense, and get back to green grass.

5. PLAYING THE RIGHT SET OF TEES.  I'm sorry but I shame a lot of male golfers into realizing that maybe your 20 handicap means you shouldn't be playing 498 yard par 4s.  Sorry guys you arent tough, you drive as far as you think you do and you barely use 3 levers in your golf swing so you absolutely DO NOT need that extra stiff shaft with your 92mph swing speed.  Got a problem?  I just cross my arms so they can see "MARINE" tattooed across my forearms.

lol all joking aside though I'm adding a 5th set of tees, I'm flipping the colors so that Red are the Tips.  People have become so fixated on colors of tees when they should be looking at the handicap recommendations from the pro to play the appropriate set of tees!

All in all I'm excited about the future of the sport.  I'm a traditionalist and I dont think we need to change much... I think we need to get back to the roots of the sport and stop trying to gimmick everything.  Courses need to get back to focusing on service, both on the course, in the clubhouse, and retail.  And the golfer needs to start realizing that "if you dont practice, you will not improve, and no, playing a round ISNT practice".  lol but that will never happen.

Coming out with three driver offerings in a single year isn't going to cut it. It just confuses the buyer who can't hit the driver they have. What we need is knowledgeable club fitters.

We have management groups locally here run by professional golfers trying to turn around some existing golf courses and make them into some decent tracks. They've done some serious maintenance work on them. These courses would have otherwise closed. They offer memberships and unlimited round. Ryan Moore is behind it.

Executive Par 3 courses - fantastic for beginners because you can get on the green in one shot. And they're nothing to sneeze at for the more advanced player either. Some of them will eat your lunch.

PLAYING FROM THE RIGHT SET OF TEES - Yeah, change the colors. Even on the championship 7400 yd course I played over the weekend they had 5 tee boxes. 5400 (Gold), 6000 (White), 6600 (Blue), 7100 (Black), and 7400 (Dynamite). But they also got creative - White/Gold combo = 5700; White/Blue combo = 6400 with par and slope ratings for both men and women for each. So even if you don't have championship tees on a course at 7100 yds or longer, courses can get creative and add combos for those of us who fall in between.

Like I'll turn a 5200 yd course into a driver - GW course. I should play 5700 yds. I should play the White/Gold combo. I like bombing it off the tee because it's fun. I had a pro show me how to crush a driver and hit it straight. Lessons. They're worth it, and they make golf fun. Plus I love my pro. He's a real cool guy.

I'm just a hacker, but I think that most of us with over 15 HC should be playing an 8 iron approach on most par 4s and that's how we should make our tee box selection. If we're hitting 2 clubs longer than that, move up a box. You'll probably score a little better, and have more fun, but your handicap probably won't be impacted due to differential.

I have a 96 mph driver swing speed and use a R shaft because that's what fits me. I'll never go to a stiff shaft because it feels like hitting with a board and I start slicing.

I disagree with Jack Nicklaus about the equipment. I agree with Gary Player about it: Leave the amateur golfer alone. We have enough trouble.

[BubblesUSMC]

Oh and I forgot to address the closing of 2500 courses.

I understand it seems like it would "hurt" golf but when you have 4 city owned courses, 2 private CCs, 5 private owned courses in a city of 130k people and 10 mile radius.  Change that to 25 mile radius and multiply those course numbers by 4... then you might be able to understand that we OVER BUILT heavily in the 90's during golf last great boom.

without going into an 8 hour lecture on the industry in the 90s, let me just put it this way.

the number of golfers IS growing... however we (the courses) SHARE these golfers.  We get that, no one really just plays the same course forever.

But just sit in at one PGA show meeting thing and you can hear all the doom and gloom about the sport as you wish... but this isnt the 90's any more where all you have to do is build a course, open the doors, and people flock to you.

[billchao]

Oh and I forgot to address the closing of 2500 courses.

I understand it seems like it would "hurt" golf but when you have 4 city owned courses, 2 private CCs, 5 private owned courses in a city of 130k people and 10 mile radius.  Change that to 25 mile radius and multiply those course numbers by 4... then you might be able to understand that we OVER BUILT heavily in the 90's during golf last great boom.

without going into an 8 hour lecture on the industry in the 90s, let me just put it this way.

the number of golfers IS growing... however we (the courses) SHARE these golfers.  We get that, no one really just plays the same course forever.

But just sit in at one PGA show meeting thing and you can hear all the doom and gloom about the sport as you wish... but this isnt the 90's any more where all you have to do is build a course, open the doors, and people flock to you.

I think accessibility is the real problem. Yea, a lot of courses were built, and still being built today, but they're all private. Most golfers can't get on them, so they're all stuck cramming in overbooked slots in municipal courses. Closing courses down would actually make this worse, since a lot of the problem courses tend to be the public ones that aren't run properly or see a lot of traffic and therefore turn into goat tracks.

They closed down a muni by me a few years ago for political reasons and now the remaining two county courses are always booked solid (and pace of play can be atrocious). On the other hand, there's a private club less than 2 minutes from my house. I can't afford it, but I wish I could, because I rarely see people playing there, especially during the times I would be available to play.

More people playing golf and less courses available to play at would be a recipe for disaster.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubblesUSMC

Oh and I forgot to address the closing of 2500 courses.

I understand it seems like it would "hurt" golf but when you have 4 city owned courses, 2 private CCs, 5 private owned courses in a city of 130k people and 10 mile radius.  Change that to 25 mile radius and multiply those course numbers by 4... then you might be able to understand that we OVER BUILT heavily in the 90's during golf last great boom.

without going into an 8 hour lecture on the industry in the 90s, let me just put it this way.

the number of golfers IS growing... however we (the courses) SHARE these golfers.  We get that, no one really just plays the same course forever.

But just sit in at one PGA show meeting thing and you can hear all the doom and gloom about the sport as you wish... but this isnt the 90's any more where all you have to do is build a course, open the doors, and people flock to you.

I think accessibility is the real problem. Yea, a lot of courses were built, and still being built today, but they're all private. Most golfers can't get on them, so they're all stuck cramming in overbooked slots in municipal courses. Closing courses down would actually make this worse, since a lot of the problem courses tend to be the public ones that aren't run properly or see a lot of traffic and therefore turn into goat tracks.

They closed down a muni by me a few years ago for political reasons and now the remaining two county courses are always booked solid (and pace of play can be atrocious). On the other hand, there's a private club less than 2 minutes from my house. I can't afford it, but I wish I could, because I rarely see people playing there, especially during the times I would be available to play.

More people playing golf and less courses available to play at would be a recipe for disaster.

That Muni isn't on "Feather" Rd. is it? If so, it's a pretty nice park now. . .

[billchao]

That Muni isn't on "Feather" Rd. is it? If so, it's a pretty nice park now. . .

Feather Bed Lane, yeah. It used to be Oak Ridge Golf Course, now it's Oak Ridge Park. Not saying it's not a nice park, but it adversely affected golfers in the area.

[flopster]

The future I see...  after all my years in this industry.

1. Certain manufactures are going to drown and die, their manufacturing model isn't sustainable.

2. About 2500 golf courses in the US need to cease to exist. We over built in the 90s and have too many absentee owners who are not in the industry and do not / will not understand the industry (I've eaten in 1000 restaurants, but it doesn't mean I know how to run one.)

3. Operators and the PGA need to step up their game and start focusing on the creation of new golfers and making the sport fun for the beginner.  Get Golf Ready, is a great step, Golf boards are awesome, Laser Glow Golf Range is sweet... many new things to see and do.

4. Executive Par 3 courses - I see these being added to courses, I plan to add one myself.  I do not see 6 hole and 12 hole courses being "built".  I see the courses that are failing being turned into 6 hole golf schools and learning centers, with club fitting and retail. Sell the rest of the land and cut expenses. (well thats what I hope they start doing because that's what our industry needs to take back over again) Get away from this big box nonsense, and get back to green grass.

5. PLAYING THE RIGHT SET OF TEES.  I'm sorry but I shame a lot of male golfers into realizing that maybe your 20 handicap means you shouldn't be playing 498 yard par 4s.  Sorry guys you arent tough, you drive as far as you think you do and you barely use 3 levers in your golf swing so you absolutely DO NOT need that extra stiff shaft with your 92mph swing speed.  Got a problem?  I just cross my arms so they can see "MARINE" tattooed across my forearms.

lol all joking aside though I'm adding a 5th set of tees, I'm flipping the colors so that Red are the Tips.  People have become so fixated on colors of tees when they should be looking at the handicap recommendations from the pro to play the appropriate set of tees!

All in all I'm excited about the future of the sport.  I'm a traditionalist and I dont think we need to change much... I think we need to get back to the roots of the sport and stop trying to gimmick everything.  Courses need to get back to focusing on service, both on the course, in the clubhouse, and retail.  And the golfer needs to start realizing that "if you dont practice, you will not improve, and no, playing a round ISNT practice".  lol but that will never happen.

The tips at my home course are 74.5 and 142 slope and the card has a 4.6 and below index recommendation for this set but we still see the 25 year olds swinging for the fences cold topping or spraying the ball all over the place, then they drive the carts over every terrain we have to find the noodle they hit 2 fairways over.

[MrDC]

1-  I don't know, there are plenty of 3 par courses around, chip and putts, or just tee it forward and play nine, I don't see this one.

2- Maybe, but I don't need anything to bring fun, I'm having a blast.

3- Always felt this was silly, more birdies? is it really a birdie? how proud can a person be playing an easy game? whoopee... a birdie is fun because it's hard.

4- Whatever, if it feels real I have no problem with synth greens, but don't touch anything else, that's where the line is drawn.


The future is this coming weekend, that's it for me.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubblesUSMC

5. PLAYING THE RIGHT SET OF TEES.  I'm sorry but I shame a lot of male golfers into realizing that maybe your 20 handicap means you shouldn't be playing 498 yard par 4s.  Sorry guys you arent tough, you drive as far as you think you do and you barely use 3 levers in your golf swing so you absolutely DO NOT need that extra stiff shaft with your 92mph swing speed.  Got a problem?  I just cross my arms so they can see "MARINE" tattooed across my forearms.

The tips at my home course are 74.5 and 142 slope and the card has a 4.6 and below index recommendation for this set but we still see the 25 year olds swinging for the fences cold topping or spraying the ball all over the place, then they drive the carts over every terrain we have to find the noodle they hit 2 fairways over.

Only 2?

BTW, there seems to be some sort of correlation between Noodle+ golf balls and far off line. Is it a fad for long but wild hitters?

[BubblesUSMC]

I think accessibility is the real problem. Yea, a lot of courses were built, and still being built today, but they're all private. Most golfers can't get on them, so they're all stuck cramming in overbooked slots in municipal courses. Closing courses down would actually make this worse, since a lot of the problem courses tend to be the public ones that aren't run properly or see a lot of traffic and therefore turn into goat tracks.

They closed down a muni by me a few years ago for political reasons and now the remaining two county courses are always booked solid (and pace of play can be atrocious). On the other hand, there's a private club less than 2 minutes from my house. I can't afford it, but I wish I could, because I rarely see people playing there, especially during the times I would be available to play.

More people playing golf and less courses available to play at would be a recipe for disaster.

I see your point but there is a huge aspect that is being missed.

You will always have private clubs, I'm not talking about those.  They will succeed or fail based on their members being hit up for money as new expenses rise, nothing like a quick $1,000 assessment / month.

The Munis are huge problem within themselves anything government (tax) subsidized is a failing business model / plan, however for some reason we keep doing it.  Without knowing your location, region, number of rounds / golfers in your specific area its hard to say if course closings in YOUR area are needed. I didnt say 2500 in your area, state, or region, i stated Nationally.  Obviously more in some areas, less in others.

In many areas its opposite of what you are experiencing.  However it still falls back on operations and market demographic.  How I ran courses in the mountains is different then how I ran them in the midwest / Iowa and will be different again with my start here in the transition zone.  Each area has its unique obstacles to over come, and assessing those specifically for each location is the only way to determine the need for each type of course.

[pumaAttack]

I see your point but there is a huge aspect that is being missed.

You will always have private clubs, I'm not talking about those.  They will succeed or fail based on their members being hit up for money as new expenses rise, nothing like a quick $1,000 assessment / month.

The Munis are huge problem within themselves anything government (tax) subsidized is a failing business model / plan, however for some reason we keep doing it.  Without knowing your location, region, number of rounds / golfers in your specific area its hard to say if course closings in YOUR area are needed. I didnt say 2500 in your area, state, or region, i stated Nationally.  Obviously more in some areas, less in others.

In many areas its opposite of what you are experiencing.  However it still falls back on operations and market demographic.  How I ran courses in the mountains is different then how I ran them in the midwest / Iowa and will be different again with my start here in the transition zone.  Each area has its unique obstacles to over come, and assessing those specifically for each location is the only way to determine the need for each type of course.

You are talking from a business objective, not a golfers perspective...

I would prefer to have 100 new courses open up near me that are public.  Not to see 1 course close.  How does that help the GOLFER not the business man?  I don't care about the businessman at all.