Communists Ban China Golf Club Memberships

[mvmac]

Outrage! 

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/10/22/deals-coming-communists-ban-china-golf-club-memberships.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34600544

Looks like the grow the game intiatives may need to look beyond China, as reports say the Chinese Communist Party has banned all 88 million of its members from joining golf clubs.

Thanks to everyone who sent the unbylined BBC story on the party updating is "discipline rules," which also targeted things like extravagant eating and drinking and abuse of power. And golf club memberships.

The new rule on golf states that members are banned from "obtaining, holding or using membership cards for gyms, clubs, golf clubs, or various other types of consumer cards, or entering private clubs".

If caught, members could either receive a warning or be removed from the party, depending on the severity of the violation.

[GolfTheMoon]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-34600544

Turns out the commies aren't too keen on Golf. Which is a shame, because China's golf industry was EXPLODING. Ever heard of Mission Hills? They own both of the largest golf resorts in the world, and they're mind-blowingly huge and extravagant. I visited china about a year and a half ago to visit a friend who lives there now. It's important to realize that many of the rich and well off people in China belong to the Communist Party, so it's unclear how this new rule will affect the growing Chinese golf industry. It's a shame, who knows what would have happened to the golf world if they had promoted golf instead of banned it...

Here's an aerial view just one of their massive golf resorts, with a total of 216 holes:

I think it's safe to say that a ban of 88 million people from the game of golf is bad news for everyone who cares about the sport. Hopefully chinese golf will survive.

[No Mulligans]

I was confused by the 88 million members... is that the number of China golf club members, holy moley!

No, it's the number of members in the Communist Party of China, 87.9 million actually, according to Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

There are about 358,000 core golfers in China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf_in_China

With the population of China at 1.4 billion, the 358,000 represents only a tiny sliver of the population; about 3 golfers for every ten thousand citizens.

To me this seems to be a symbolic move by the party.

 

[nevets88]

Uh oh. Inklings of cultural revolution 2.0. Golf clubs into farming implements. 

Edited October 23, 2015 by nevets88

[Lihu]

Probably just means more people will join the Capitalist party in China.

[boogielicious]

Hmmm, golf....communist party.

Golf.....communist party.

I choose golf! 

Edited October 23, 2015 by boogielicious

[RandallT]

All kidding aside, this is what happens when a society does not value individual freedoms. Having read "1984" recently with my daughter, this just fits right into that. I find their way of life so depressing, sad, and devoid of any motivating factor whatsoever. The thought of being dictated to simply snuffs out the human spirit. Who would want to live in a society where you only granted the ability to do the things that the state has blessed as beneficial for society? 

While this may seem to some at first like a frivolous story about a luxury like golf (and they might say "good, golf is a ridiculous endeavor anyway, and they should be out helping the poor."), it is about a topic that I think cuts to the core of mankind: our ability to make our own way in the world and use our own time and resources as we see fit. Sure we may do frivolous things that aren't always as noble as the elite would want us all to be. But if we are compelled to be good all the time, are we really that good?  In freedom, we find our spirit to live. In tyranny, our spirit is extinguished.

Sorry, didn't mean to get so heavy on y'all!

[Lihu]

All kidding aside, this is what happens when a society does not value individual freedoms. Having read "1984" recently with my daughter, this just fits right into that. I find their way of life so depressing, sad, and devoid of any motivating factor whatsoever. The thought of being dictated to simply snuffs out the human spirit. Who would want to live in a society where you only granted the ability to do the things that the state has blessed as beneficial for society? 

While this may seem to some at first like a frivolous story about a luxury like golf (and they might say "good, golf is a ridiculous endeavor anyway, and they should be out helping the poor."), it is about a topic that I think cuts to the core of mankind: our ability to make our own way in the world and use our own time and resources as we see fit. Sure we may do frivolous things that aren't always as noble as the elite would want us all to be. But if we are compelled to be good all the time, are we really that good?  In freedom, we find our spirit to live. In tyranny, our spirit is extinguished.

Sorry, didn't mean to get so heavy on y'all!

It's this human spirit that has made more millionaires in China over the last decade than any other time in the history of the world. When people go from poor to wealthy in a few years, they act rich and unrefined. Many feel entitled to be really nasty to the poorer people. Golf courses really stand out as large exclusive and luxurious places only the rich can enjoy. So much well maintained land is used up where poorer people can only look. The workers are really poor, and not paid well at all. . .

So, to placate the other billion people the "party" is trying to "temper" these acts of "showy luxury".

[NJpatbee]

I got mixed signals from reading the article:  Are communist party members banned from using public funds to join private clubs or are they banned from joining with their own funds?  Also, with 88 million communist party members that leaves, oh, about 1 billion other Chinese potential golfers.  One last point, when did we start considering the Chinese communist party as a reasonable organization?

[Lihu]

I got mixed signals from reading the article:  Are communist party members banned from using public funds to join private clubs or are they banned from joining with their own funds?  Also, with 88 million communist party members that leaves, oh, about 1 billion other Chinese potential golfers.  One last point, when did we start considering the Chinese communist party as a reasonable organization?

Party salaries are not that high, so the approximately 100,000USD membership fees could be in the form of "donations" from "business partners"?

I'm hopeful that Golf will become more accessible in the future there. . .

[BuckeyeNut]

it's OK to murder people they consider threats to their communist way of life............but "golf" is where they draw the line!  

The premise for the entire story is such BS.........

[nevets88]

This baby at the 佛山 (Foshan) Open is really upset about it.

[billchao]

To me this seems to be a symbolic move by the party.

It's likely going to become a symbolic move because a number of people are going to ignore it and continue to play golf. Building golf courses has been illegal in China since Mao Zedong's era and there have obviously been new golf courses built in China within the last 70 years.

China's regime under Xin Jinping is cracking down on corruption in government officials, and this anti-golf decree (among others) is one of their ways to target this. Golf has traditionally been viewed as extravagant, exclusionary, and elitist in Chinese culture, which is exactly why a number of people in China who have suddenly found themselves wealthy are attracted to it. The problem is that this individualism is the antithesis of what the Communist Party stands for.

All kidding aside, this is what happens when a society does not value individual freedoms.

This is probably a hard concept for Westerners to understand, but Chinese society has never valued the individual over the collective. The Communist Party came to power because the society was receptive to its message. For thousands of years, the greatest aspiration for an individual is to rise in the ranks as a government official, using one's talents to advance the nation. Communism didn't introduce that to China.

While this may seem to some at first like a frivolous story about a luxury like golf (and they might say "good, golf is a ridiculous endeavor anyway, and they should be out helping the poor."), it is about a topic that I think cuts to the core of mankind: our ability to make our own way in the world and use our own time and resources as we see fit.

It's about differences in core values. They do not value that individualistic spirit in the same way you do. It's likely that a Chinese person would read what you wrote here and criticize you for being self-centered, claiming that the greater achievement of any individual is to advance the whole of mankind, and that's best achieved through collective goals and guidance. Ants in a colony and all that. Lots of harm can (and has) been done because of individuals pursuing their own agendas.

It's this human spirit that has made more millionaires in China over the last decade than any other time in the history of the world. When people go from poor to wealthy in a few years, they act rich and unrefined. Many feel entitled to be really nasty to the poorer people. Golf courses really stand out as large exclusive and luxurious places only the rich can enjoy. So much well maintained land is used up where poorer people can only look. The workers are really poor, and not paid well at all. . .

So, to placate the other billion people the "party" is trying to "temper" these acts of "showy luxury".

There's definitely a huge economic divide happening right now in China, but I'm not sure these things are being done just to placate the people. I'm fairly certain that Xin Jinping truly believes in abolishing corruption and will continue to crusade against it.

[boogielicious]

Nice post @billchao!

[newtogolf]

It's about differences in core values. They do not value that individualistic spirit in the same way you do. It's likely that a Chinese person would read what you wrote here and criticize you for being self-centered, claiming that the greater achievement of any individual is to advance the whole of mankind, and that's best achieved through collective goals and guidance. Ants in a colony and all that. Lots of harm can (and has) been done because of individuals pursuing their own agendas.

Great post Bill, but as China attains more of the worlds wealth the pressure on communism is increasing.  Communism seems to work best when the country is depressed and shielded from outsiders but as China gains prominence in the world not only for its military force but impact on the world economy, greed and individualism starts to put cracks in the foundation.  I've spoken to some people from China who confirm that the government is feeling pressure and this move is likely a reaction to that pressure. 

One example of where the cracks are showing is that China currently has no Good Samaritan laws and in the case of pedestrians getting hit by cars, “Double-hit cases” are not unusual, and the reason is this: If you injure someone, you have to pay for the their care for a lifetime. But if you kill them, you only pay once.  Seems the Chinese are starting to develop personal agendas, it's just a slow process.

[Lihu]

Great post Bill, but as China attains more of the worlds wealth the pressure on communism is increasing.  Communism seems to work best when the country is depressed and shielded from outsiders but as China gains prominence in the world not only for its military force but impact on the world economy, greed and individualism starts to put cracks in the foundation.  I've spoken to some people from China who confirm that the government is feeling pressure and this move is likely a reaction to that pressure. 

One example of where the cracks are showing is that China currently has no Good Samaritan laws and in the case of pedestrians getting hit by cars, “Double-hit cases” are not unusual, and the reason is this: If you injure someone, you have to pay for the their care for a lifetime. But if you kill them, you only pay once.  Seems the Chinese are starting to develop personal agendas, it's just a slow process.

People are people, anywhere. I still have friends and family in China, and they just go about their business as usual. The government on a national level is becoming less and less of an influence on their daily lives. The real issue is that there is are enormously wealth people in China and there are extremely poor people. Then there are many in between, but mostly closer to the poor. Once the rich in China start trying to improve the lives of the poor through philanthropic endeavors, the poor will be more willing to accept the rich and their lifestyles. That has not happened on a large scale yet, although I am hopeful that it will.

BTW, if you kill someone, you need to pay for the loss to their family. You could even go to prison if it's found that you were drinking or doing something else that's negligent. Killing is considered extremely bad Karma by Chinese in general. It's much better to only injure someone then pay for damages.

Kind of back on topic, I am hopeful that more middle class people will be able to afford golf when the prices to play start to drop. A "public" course currently costs about $120 to play a round. If the party members play these public courses, there might be less outrage. . .

[nevets88]

rGreat post Bill, but as China attains more of the worlds wealth the pressure on communism is increasing.  Communism seems to work best when the country is depressed and shielded from outsiders but as China gains prominence in the world not only for its military force but impact on the world economy, greed and individualism starts to put cracks in the foundation.  I've spoken to some people from China who confirm that the government is feeling pressure and this move is likely a reaction to that pressure. 

One example of where the cracks are showing is that China currently has no Good Samaritan laws and in the case of pedestrians getting hit by cars, “Double-hit cases” are not unusual, and the reason is this: If you injure someone, you have to pay for the their care for a lifetime. But if you kill them, you only pay once.  Seems the Chinese are starting to develop personal agendas, it's just a slow process.

 

If you're referring to the "repeat hit to kill so I don't have to pay for someone's long term healthcare" in China Slate piece that caused a ruckus in September, it cited 6 cases, not clear cut, over a decade, in a country w/ ~4 times the population of the US. From 6 cases to authoritatively saying not unusual is a stretch.

In the posts below, much more nuance is provided about the issue and point out all sorts of inconsistencies in the original piece and how shoddy a job of translation was done.

https://www.quora.com/Have-there-been-a-meaningful-number-of-incidents-of-drivers-in-China-intentionally-killing-the-pedestrians-that-they-hit-Is-this-a-systemic-problem-If-so-why

Edited October 26, 2015 by iacas
removed extra returns

[billchao]

Communism seems to work best when the country is depressed and shielded from outsiders but as China gains prominence in the world not only for its military force but impact on the world economy, greed and individualism starts to put cracks in the foundation.  I've spoken to some people from China who confirm that the government is feeling pressure and this move is likely a reaction to that pressure. 

@Lihu mentioned it, but I think most people have the wrong impression of the Chinese Communist government. They're not as involved in people's daily lives as many would believe they are. Chinese people enjoy plenty of freedoms, and for those that can afford it, luxuries. For the most part it's not much different than daily life here in the United States.