Share your New Strokes Gained Data from GAME Golf!

[dsc123]

29 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I agree. Probably the best way is to take a picture of my last putt and ball, then editing when I get home.

That's probably just as time-consuming.  I would lose patience quick if the guy I was playing with kept taking pictures. 

Just note in on your score card or try to make a point of remembering.

[iacas]

Back to the topic again now please.

Yes inputting the best data gives you the best data out.

[glinks]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

Back to the topic again now please.

 

You used Strokes VS scratch for your statistics
I am 18 HCP, I can use Strokes Vs 20 ...
How is the HCP adapted?

I guess the calculations are made from the Pro Baseline used on the PGA tour.

[Big Lex]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2015 at 5:41 PM, iacas said:

I have a sneaking suspicion they're not really doing this the right way.

I'm going to see if we can't have a little time to see some examples and explore in some detail how they're calculating these things.

Because, as I have said at least twice now, the driving and approach shots stats seem to be resulting in far fewer strokes lost than "the eye test" (as well as the research Dave and I, as well as Mark Broadie, have done).

Just a couple pages into the thread, I noticed that immediately. LSW research suggests that for medium and high handicap golfers (and maybe all handicap golfers....), the first two bars (tee shots, approach shots) in the GG Strokes Gained graph should be higher than the last two (short game, putting). But they aren't.  There was mention of lots of improvements.....as of this point in 2016, is there an update regarding improving the SG computations?  Second, there is a lot of mention of changing the pin location in editing rounds. Makes sense....But as someone who doesn't have the product yet, how accurately can you really do this in the software? Presuming your course is in the database, do you place it according to an actual overhead photo of the green? Or do they give you a generic cartoon green and you move the pin on that to the approximate location?

[iacas]

8 hours ago, glinks said:

You used Strokes VS scratch for your statistics
I am 18 HCP, I can use Strokes Vs 20 ...
How is the HCP adapted?

I guess the calculations are made from the Pro Baseline used on the PGA tour.

They use their own handicaps from the players and their own strokes gained for players in those categories.

1 minute ago, Big Lex said:

There was mention of lots of improvements.....as of this point in 2016, is there an update regarding improving the SG computations?  Second, there is a lot of mention of changing the pin location in editing rounds. Makes sense....But as someone who doesn't have the product yet, how accurately can you really do this in the software? Presuming your course is in the database, do you place it according to an actual overhead photo of the green? Or do they give you a generic cartoon green and you move the pin on that to the approximate location?

Just look at any of the rounds anyone has posted. Or a review. You'll see it uses a map not a drawing.

As for improvements and insights to the improvements, our "task force" has not yet started on that, but we have uncovered areas of improvement like people not marking first putt distances (hole location), etc.

[Big Lex]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Just look at any of the rounds anyone has posted. Or a review. You'll see it uses a map not a drawing.

As for improvements and insights to the improvements, our "task force" has not yet started on that, but we have uncovered areas of improvement like people not marking first putt distances (hole location), etc.

Regarding the first comment....If the answer to my question was obvious from the things I've seen in the thread, I wouldn't have asked it. Yes, I have looked at the posted rounds and seen the photographs. I've also seen postings showing data presented in drawings. So to someone new to the program, it isn't immediately obvious how editing works. And yes I could re-read reviews and probably find the information there. But this forum is here, I am here, and I decided to ask the question here.

Regarding the second comment...I also wondered about issues similar to first putt distances that occur on other areas of the course. You mentioned one in another comment, I believe, regarding the error that could be introduced if, for example, the program does not know that you took the shot from behind a tree. Anyway...is there a timetable for the task force?

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

Regarding the first comment....If the answer to my question was obvious from the things I've seen in the thread, I wouldn't have asked it. Yes, I have looked at the posted rounds and seen the photographs. I've also seen postings showing data presented in drawings. So to someone new to the program, it isn't immediately obvious how editing works. And yes I could re-read reviews and probably find the information there. But this forum is here, I am here, and I decided to ask the question here.

No need for attitude JP. I answered your question. Concisely, as I'm attending a USGA seminar right now.

Yes, it's a question you could have answered yourself. And no, a forum is for discussion, not to indulge laziness.  

18 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

Regarding the second comment...I also wondered about issues similar to first putt distances that occur on other areas of the course. You mentioned one in another comment, I believe, regarding the error that could be introduced if, for example, the program does not know that you took the shot from behind a tree. Anyway...is there a timetable for the task force?

There's no timetable. The data is still very usable even if it's not perfect.

Read through this thread and you'll find bits of that discussion.

[Lihu]

On 3/15/2016 at 4:03 PM, Lihu said:

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/lihu/insights/share/0f0dc44848

I guess this means that if my short game were better I too could be a single digit player?

My putting stats are going to be off because I don't edit the hole locations. I don't usually have time to fix things unless I have a 400 yard drive from having not tagged a shot or something stupid like that.

If these tips are true, I'll work on my putting from 10 feet and in and short game. I think I need to take those shots more seriously than just setup and putt/chip. My drives have been pretty erratic since going back to graphite shafts, but I feel like it will improve some. 8i, 7i and 6i definitely need some work. My range shots are still a lot better than my on course shots with these clubs. That should change once I go from Mizuno MP-32 to Ping i20 when I get the i20 re-fitted to standard lengths.

 

Well, this makes a little more sense, I will get 10 rounds in with "edited" last putts within a month or so. I don't get the "Off the tee" stats. I hit wide left and right, why doesn't the program catch that and make note that I could improve a lot more than it seems to think? Short game must have been some weird shot I made. 10 more rounds will even things out a bit.

I edited the putting on my last 2 rounds, but there is no choice for 2 rounds. Need to wait another couple days to get those.

My only objection is that I need to "write down" the distance of my last putt somewhere (like where? I have a smart phone ).

 

[glinks]

On 18/3/2016 at 5:13 PM, iacas said:

They use their own handicaps from the players and their own strokes gained for players in those categories.

Thank you for your answer

[No Mulligans]

On 3/18/2016 at 9:08 AM, Big Lex said:

 Second, there is a lot of mention of changing the pin location in editing rounds. Makes sense....But as someone who doesn't have the product yet, how accurately can you really do this in the software? Presuming your course is in the database, do you place it according to an actual overhead photo of the green? 

How accurate?  I think I get my last putt within a foot by marking stroke and location on my card.  The other putts which I seldom edit are probably within a couple feet + or -.

The 1st image below is an unedited hole.  The second image is an expanded view and an edited flag position, it's just a click drag of the flag while watching the number of feet change.  Note, I marked 6w on my score card (for a 6 foot putt towards the west).  Accurate to the foot.

 

[Big Lex]

Thank you. That is very helpful.

[iacas]

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/iacas/round/793790

I wanted to discuss this a bit.

I hit 83% GIR and made one birdie and one bogey. I had 33 putts.

My first putt distances were roughly (in feet, with * meaning I made it): 4*, 19, 7, 22, 18, 21, 20, 6*, 39, 36, 7, 20, 22*, 28, 15, 42, 24, 23. Except for the 40-footer I left short on one hole (to three feet), every second putt was a tap-in (1 foot). (Note: first putt distances above are almost all from GG, but in this round that's somewhat accurate as every putt I hit today had basically dead weight).

Compared to a PGA Tour pro, that's… losing less than a stroke to par. A quick analysis says -0.91 or so:

So why does GG tell me that I lost 2.09 strokes to a scratch golfer?

My theory is still that golfers are not really putting in their distances properly, particularly on putts. If they chip on to six feet and make, but GG thinks they holed a 20-footer, my stats will look worse than if they put the proper distance in.

[Dave2512]

You do have to be sure putts are tagged where they actually were in the editing process, and yeah 1 putts are usually the problem. Goes both ways too pretty sure GG assumes the last putt is close to the hole. 1st putts past the hole can muddle up the data if it shows something like a 6' 1st putt and 10' putt coming back that was really 1.5' feet. Limitations of the GPS and a people not catching it is the issue not the calculations.

My SG stats are pretty much dead on for how I play and my GG handicap but I am a careful editor. I know I struggle from the tee and I know my iron play is better than my handicap. Without seeing the numbers I would have reached the same conclusion. Anyone new to GG with funky stats just needs to keep signing rounds it gets better, more accurate, with more data.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

My SG stats are pretty much dead on for how I play and my GG handicap but I am a careful editor. I know I struggle from the tee and I know my iron play is better than my handicap. Without seeing the numbers I would have reached the same conclusion. Anyone new to GG with funky stats just needs to keep signing rounds it gets better, more accurate, with more data.

Mine do not appear to be dead on. Again, yesterday, GG says I lost 2.09 strokes putting to scratch while Strokes Gained from Broadie's data says I lost about 0.9 to a PGA Tour player.

If that's because they're mixing in the strokes gained putting data from people who don't care about or edit their putting data, then that could explain why.

[Lihu]

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/lihu/insights/share/0f0dc44848

Makes sense, my entire game is weak compared to a scratch.

But approach is still weak compared to a normal 10 HC. I really depend a lot upon my driver. Without a working driver, I pretty much play bogey golf as seen in the last several rounds. I knew this anyway. . .

One thing that might help is using more forgiving irons than the MP-32. Another is to just continue to work with those clubs and try to improve my GIR.

Still weak compared to a 15 HC:

 

Lot's of work to do, but my short game is not as horrific as previously posted, which I knew anyway.

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Mine do not appear to be dead on. Again, yesterday, GG says I lost 2.09 strokes putting to scratch while Strokes Gained from Broadie's data says I lost about 0.9 to a PGA Tour player.

If that's because they're mixing in the strokes gained putting data from people who don't care about or edit their putting data, then that could explain why.

Mine is similar. My GG says i lost 0.43 strokes to scratch but I was +0.034 versus PGA Tour players.

GG says I could improve by 1.6 strokes if I improved my putting from 10-33' compared to scratch. I was only -0.110 strokes off PGA Tour players in that range. GG thinks that scratch golfers are 1.7 strokes worse from 10-33 feet than PGA Tour players? That doesn't sound right. 

 

[Dave2512]

The Smart Tips appear to be not so smart, I ignore those.

The last one on my list says work to improve shots from the rough at distances greater than 250 yards to improve my score by .35 strokes per round. I'll get right on that.

[Lihu]

3 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

The Smart Tips appear to be not so smart, I ignore those.

The last one on my list says work to improve shots from the rough at distances greater than 250 yards to improve my score by .35 strokes per round. I'll get right on that.

Yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.