World Handicap System Now Out (2020)

[Rippy_72]

Does anyone know if one can start over with a new handicap, ignoring scores from 2013/2014?  I know old scores carry over into the new systems, but is there a way to start fresh?  I tried to read this whole thread and rules but did not see my situation covered.  Sorry if I missed it.

I have not played due to a medical condition and there is no way I can play anywhere close to my old level.  And since handicaps can only be revised upwards a small amount each year, it would take me years to have an accurate handicap.  I am guessing I might be able to play to an 8 Hcp now or maybe a 6, but under the new system, it will probably have me as a +2.6, which is crazy.  I am pretty sure I cannot break 80 with any consistency.  Change my name?

These are my last 10 best differentials from my sheet:  -2, -4.1, +3.1, +2, -3.1, -3, -3.1, -2.1. -2.1, -2.1  (I did not list the bad 10 scores out of 20, just top 10 of old system)

[mauricio]

The history must be carried. IF needed The player can call a review and justify why is needed to review to his Club handicap committee, they can take action if needed to make any adjustments. 

[phillyk]

4 minutes ago, Rippy_72 said:

Does anyone know if one can start over with a new handicap, ignoring scores from 2013/2014?  I know old scores carry over into the new systems, but is there a way to start fresh?  I tried to read this whole thread and rules but did not see my situation covered.  Sorry if I missed it.

I have not played due to a medical condition and there is no way I can play anywhere close to my old level.  And since handicaps can only be revised upwards a small amount each year, it would take me years to have an accurate handicap.  I am guessing I might be able to play to an 8 Hcp now or maybe a 6, but under the new system, it will probably have me as a +2.6, which is crazy.  I am pretty sure I cannot break 80 with any consistency.  Change my name?

These are my last 10 best differentials from my sheet:  -2, -4.1, +3.1, +2, -3.1, -3, -3.1, -2.1. -2.1, -2.1  (I did not list the bad 10 scores out of 20, just top 10 of old system)

2 options, either have your home club modify your index to reflect current ability or get a new number and start over. 

[Rippy_72]

I'll talk to the pro and see if I can get a new number.  Thanks.  In the USA from my experience, I have not seen a real handicap committee since the 70's.  Those were the days.  Attested cards put into the box and the committee put your HcP up on the board.

[mauricio]

Sad to hear that, so it means Brazil can be ahead of US in managing handicaps. Unbeliveable. Please let me know more about how handicap committees are working nowadays, that can be helpful for me.

[phillyk]

3 minutes ago, mauricio said:

Sad to hear that, so it means Brazil can be ahead of US in managing handicaps. Unbeliveable. Please let me know more about how handicap committees are working nowadays, that can be helpful for me.

Its more of a public versus private course thing, i think.  Public courses are more unlikely to have any sort of committee or real oversight for score posting because of the nature of having first timers often.  At a private course, more people know each other and how they play which makes have a committee easier. 

[mauricio]

@phillyk  thanks for the contribuition. 

[Rippy_72]

It is impossible to generalize but my experience at 3 clubs over the years, the computer terminal is often the peer review.  At one high end private where I was a member, the Professional was the HcP Chairmen and his assistants were the rest of the committee.  In a stroke play event, one member had three consecutive scores 10-15 shots per round better than his handicap.  I had the Pope of Slope calculate the probability of that happening randomly, it was like one out of a trillion or something silly.  No, his handicap was not revised. I cannot possibly speak to peer review in general but my observation at any club private or public is that one simply posts their score into the computer at the end of the round.  Done.

Unlike in other parts of the world, I have always viewed a USGA handicap with a lot of suspicion for many reasons.  For one reason and as an example, say a 5 Hcp playing a true championship course like Bethpage Black or either Winged Feet with narrow fairways, deep rough, firm and very fast greens is going to be a much more skilled player than a 5 Hcp on an average course with wide fairways, modest rough, slower and softer greens, etc.  What is often termed a vanity handicap is simply a difference in course conditions and difficulty.  We all know that in the UK and Ireland, handicaps were only established based upon tourney scores and no real slope or corpse rating to tilt them and there really was not a way to compare a USGA based 5 HcP to a UK 5 Hcp,

[phillyk]

50 minutes ago, Rippy_72 said:

At one high end private where I was a member, the Professional was the HcP Chairmen and his assistants were the rest of the committee.

Technically the pro’s can not be the committee. It has to be people of that “home” course. 

Another thing, when a member at a private course, a ghin is typically included and therefore easy to keep track of scores. Public course, out of 100 people, you may only have like 20-30 who keep a handicap, of which you may know 50% of them. Hard to really keep track and peer review. 

[mauricio]

@phillyk employees of the club can be in the committee, but they can't be the Committee Chairman.

[iacas]

An old GHIN # from that long ago should have lapsed and been re-assigned, if you weren't active with it for a period of 3 years or more. I'd be surprised if it's still active and assigned to you, unless you retained it (by being a member at a club or something) but just never posted a score or something.

[klineka]

1 hour ago, Rippy_72 said:

For one reason and as an example, say a 5 Hcp playing a true championship course like Bethpage Black or either Winged Feet with narrow fairways, deep rough, firm and very fast greens is going to be a much more skilled player than a 5 Hcp on an average course with wide fairways, modest rough, slower and softer greens, etc.  

Isn't the point of slope/course ratings to solve for this exact scenario?

In theory wouldn't two people that are both 5 handicaps and had never seen either of those two courses before both be expected to shoot around the same (on average) on each relative course? 

[Darkfrog]

1 hour ago, Rippy_72 said:

For one reason and as an example, say a 5 Hcp playing a true championship course like Bethpage Black or either Winged Feet with narrow fairways, deep rough, firm and very fast greens is going to be a much more skilled player than a 5 Hcp on an average course with wide fairways, modest rough, slower and softer greens, etc.

I thought handicap index calculations were normalized to course difficulty somehow using slope or course ratings.

As a 16-18 handicap index, I have found this to be accurate at various courses. I generally don't score worse with regards to course handicap at championship level courses (only really get out to places like this 1-2X a year though).

Maybe there is more nuance to this once you're a single digit that I don't understand at my ability.

[mauricio]

If the system works for you at 16-18s, will work all the way, great speech yours, that's what a handicap system does. There's a pattern, it's used to evaluate all the courses and this pattern will result a table of indexes to convert into a course handicap. It works for me the same way. I played 3 different courses last 2 months and my handicap seems to be pretty accurate.

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, klineka said:

Isn't the point of slope/course ratings to solve for this exact scenario?

In theory wouldn't two people that are both 5 handicaps and had never seen either of those two courses before both be expected to shoot around the same (on average) on each relative course? 

Yeah, @Rippy_72, be careful whether you're talking about a 5 index or a 5 course or playing handicap.

[DaveP043]

14 minutes ago, klineka said:

Isn't the point of slope/course ratings to solve for this exact scenario?

In theory wouldn't two people that are both 5 handicaps and had never seen either of those two courses before both be expected to shoot around the same (on average) on each relative course? 

Slope/CR are intended to take care of this, but may not be as effective for near-scratch golfers.  If the (score-CR) term is small, multiplying it by 113/Slope will have a pretty small influence.  The CR term has the most influence when scores are low.

Prior to the WHS, UK scores were compared to a Standard Scratch Score, which is similar to the USGA Course Rating.  There wasn't anything resembling the Slope rating, and the Handicap was based mostly on stroke-play competition scores.

Handicap Committee are made of volunteers, it requires members who are interested.  When private clubs have no committees, chances are they don't have members who care enough to want to do it themselves.  I'm sure there are some cases where the Pro or Management prefers to retain control, but I'd bet they're a minority,

For @Rippy_72, the best thing is to find out who is in charge of the handicap committee where you play.  See if your scoring history is still available.  If it is, the only HONEST thing to do is to ask to have the Committee modify your handicap.  From everything you've said, you have a reasonable basis for asking.  You should have a few "new" rounds available to post, to be a basis for your new handicap.  In my mind, it wouldn't be right to act as if you've never had a handicap before.

[Rippy_72]

40 minutes ago, klineka said:

Isn't the point of slope/course ratings to solve for this exact scenario?

 

But in opinion, it does not account for greens stimping at 12 vs 8 or fairways 20 yards wide vs 30 yards wide or the decision to mow rough to 4-5 inches versus 2 1/2-3 inches or firm and fast greens vs watered.  Just my observation or I should say my opinion.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Rippy_72 said:

But in opinion, it does not account for greens stimping at 12 vs 8 or fairways 20 yards wide vs 30 yards wide or the decision to mow rough to 4-5 inches versus 2 1/2-3 inches or firm and fast greens vs watered.  Just my observation or I should say my opinion.

Yes it does.

Those things are factored into both the course rating and slope.