Does set up affect how you swing?

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22 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

There is nothing magic in golf except the high it gives you when a "miracle" occurs, the shot is flushed, and the ball actually does what you envisioned - okay, it may not go in the hole from 170 yards, but on the green and close.

There is no one automatic move -- it is a series of patterns. For example, if one sets up well, but the arms keep moving behind you when the shoulders have stopped, you won't achieve a near miracle at impact with any consistency.

Golf is hard, and it's work.

The most challenging set up seems to lie between the golfers ears.A small amount of knowledge is a harmful thing.Golfers in this situation develop a list of golf speak terminology they want to see and hear and nothing more.

[DaveP043]

For me, a proper set-up is the basis on which the rest of the golf swing is constructed.  A good set-up does not in any way guarantee a good swing, but a poor set-up makes it much more difficult to make consistently good contact.  That's not to say that you'll always get bad results from a poor set-up, just that it makes things more difficult.  The biggest problem is that there's not just one "good set-up", but instead a vast range of acceptable set-ups.  The important things is to work to find a set-up that allows you to make consistently good contact.  If you make changes to your swing, whether intentional or not, your set-up may also need to change to keep consistent solid contact.  Sadly, there's not much about golf that's "automatic."

[Mr. Desmond]

29 minutes ago, collapse said:

The most challenging set up seems to lie between the golfers ears.A small amount of knowledge is a harmful thing.Golfers in this situation develop a list of golf speak terminology they want to see and hear and nothing more.

You turn off the "between the ears" during the execution. Just relax.

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31 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

For me, a proper set-up is the basis on which the rest of the golf swing is constructed.  A good set-up does not in any way guarantee a good swing, but a poor set-up makes it much more difficult to make consistently good contact.  That's not to say that you'll always get bad results from a poor set-up, just that it makes things more difficult.  The biggest problem is that there's not just one "good set-up", but instead a vast range of acceptable set-ups.  The important things is to work to find a set-up that allows you to make consistently good contact.  If you make changes to your swing, whether intentional or not, your set-up may also need to change to keep consistent solid contact.  Sadly, there's not much about golf that's "automatic."

How do you feel about the wrists being the hinges and the fingers the screws....get those on correctly and the door swings automatically smoothly.

[mvmac]

9 hours ago, craps said:

Set up is definitely easier to master than a swing.

Right, it's takes very little skill to address the ball correctly. 

[craps]

5 hours ago, Mr. Desmond said:

There is nothing magic in golf except the high it gives you when a "miracle" occurs, the shot is flushed, and the ball actually does what you envisioned - okay, it may not go in the hole from 170 yards, but on the green and close.

There is no one automatic move -- it is a series of patterns. For example, if one sets up well, but the arms keep moving behind you when the shoulders have stopped, you won't achieve a near miracle at impact with any consistency.

Golf is hard, and it's work.

I am certainly not talking about occasionally shots. I am talking about high percentage shots if one set up in a particular way. Hammering the nail requires set up. The swing of the hammer does not require any thought and it seldom fails unless one is not paying attention. I swing the golf club like swinging a hammer. The plane of the swing CAN be determined by how you set up. Think Moe Norman. There is nothing in his swing. Its all set up and alteration of equipment. The swing certainly can be hammer like automatic provided sufficient training have been given to pivot issues.

[rkim291968]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

For me, a proper set-up is the basis on which the rest of the golf swing is constructed.  A good set-up does not in any way guarantee a good swing, but a poor set-up makes it much more difficult to make consistently good contact.  That's not to say that you'll always get bad results from a poor set-up, just that it makes things more difficult.  The biggest problem is that there's not just one "good set-up", but instead a vast range of acceptable set-ups.  The important things is to work to find a set-up that allows you to make consistently good contact.  If you make changes to your swing, whether intentional or not, your set-up may also need to change to keep consistent solid contact.  Sadly, there's not much about golf that's "automatic."

+1.  I think it's true for most things in life.  Start with a good set up, and you will go farther.

[Mr. Desmond]

2 hours ago, craps said:

I am certainly not talking about occasionally shots. I am talking about high percentage shots if one set up in a particular way. Hammering the nail requires set up. The swing of the hammer does not require any thought and it seldom fails unless one is not paying attention. I swing the golf club like swinging a hammer. The plane of the swing CAN be determined by how you set up. Think Moe Norman. There is nothing in his swing. Its all set up and alteration of equipment. The swing certainly can be hammer like automatic provided sufficient training have been given to pivot issues.

Setup certainly helps. But as a 9hc where nothing is high percentage, I wonder how a 24hc can talk about high percentage shots? There is nothing about golf that is high percentage or automatic, I think, until you get to scratch or below. I'd like to think high percentage is 9/10, but I can't do much that is 9/10, maybe 30 yard pitches within 12 feet. Maybe 7/10. Maybe making a 3 foot putt, that's about it.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Mr. Desmond

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, craps said:

The plane of the swing CAN be determined by how you set up.

Not really. You can have a good set-up and have an A4 that looks like Nicklaus or one that looks like Zach Johnson. You can have a good set-up and swing 7 degrees across the ball or 2 degrees out.

2 hours ago, craps said:

Think Moe Norman. There is nothing in his swing. Its all set up and alteration of equipment.

I can guarantee you could set-up EXACTLY like Moe Norman and you're not going to hit it like Moe Norman. 

[craps]

If one has the privilege and time to hit few hundred balls a day, naturally the swing will be good. Its all muscle memory. Set up is all knowledge. There is no way one can manipulate halfway through a swing and be consistent.

There are little things in the set up that helps like gripping the club with the left hand by leaning the shaft  backwards a bit The grip will be much more comfortable and it helps to swing easier.

[Mr. Desmond]

51 minutes ago, craps said:

If one has the privilege and time to hit few hundred balls a day, naturally the swing will be good. Its all muscle memory. Set up is all knowledge. There is no way one can manipulate halfway through a swing and be consistent.

There are little things in the set up that helps like gripping the club with the left hand by leaning the shaft  backwards a bit The grip will be much more comfortable and it helps to swing easier.

I wish.

You can hit a few hundred balls every day, and if you have a bad swing, the bad swing remains. I am witness, not only to my swing, but the same guys I would see at a club on a daily basis, hitting balls with the same poor swings.

Good instruction, video, your own knowledge to be able to apply the lessons, hard work.

[mvmac]

1 hour ago, craps said:

If one has the privilege and time to hit few hundred balls a day, naturally the swing will be good.

If you're working on the right stuff for your swing, sure. I've known a bunch of golfers that practiced A LOT and never got better because all they did was hit ball on the range without a purpose. All they did was ingrained their "bad" swings.

[iacas]

On December 10, 2015 at 7:48 PM, craps said:

I used to swing OTT which is natural for a beginner. After countless drills I still do it . I really do not need any more people telling me that my mother is a woman. Then I begin to position my right shoulder in such a way together with placing the back of my left thumb pointing to my neck  suddennly does the trick. No more OTT eureka!!! P/S this is not a band-aid move. It is here to stay. Works every time.

Sounds like you had some bad instructors (I'm assuming they're the ones who gave you the drills), OR you didn't do them properly. Let's assume the former.

On December 10, 2015 at 3:15 AM, craps said:

Thanks for the numerous feedback and info. I can see instructors concentrate more on correcting a swing and not too much on set up. Maybe the aim is to develop the student to improve more hand eye coordination. Set up is definitely easier to master than a swing.

13 hours ago, craps said:

If one has the privilege and time to hit few hundred balls a day, naturally the swing will be good.

Not at all. Some of the worst golfers I see are those who have been playing and practicing the most.

[mythbuster]

On December 9, 2015 at 6:28 PM, craps said:

There is a thread about a poster claiming a neutral setup would produce an automatic swing. My post here is slightly different. I would like to think of the swing and set up as one whole package. Compare to someone withdrawing a sword from its sleeve. If you pull the whole sword out, it will be though to reenter the sleeve unless you stop and put the sword tip slowly into the sleeve again. If I set up in a particular way where my swing always in connection, then the swing will be deemed automatic. Right now I am very particular how I set up. How open are the legs. How to grip. How much tilt. How much forward lean. If I do what I need to do then the swing is like the sword that never leaves its sleeve.  I have done countless golf drills and none of them worked. After I began to toy with setup tweaking here and there, finally I found success to a degree which is quite satisfactory. My long game is like good. I have yet to dig deep in the short game. Anyone out there found success through set up ?

yes craps, that person you refer to was me.

look, a lot of my research has progressed exponentially since then.

when you talk about "set up" in neutral, i now am of the view that you actually make the neutral setup whilst you are standing upright, but in my case the "set' is also made with BOTH hands on the club in this upright position.

i will try and explain my own physical dilemma even though it may not relate to your circumstances, but even so, reveals itself as a real eye opener.

i have a very athletic build with broad shoulders, but the trouble is my shoulder joints are prone to separating from my chest at address and during the swing.

anyway, i isolated that particular problem and remedied it by flexing both joints, rather than trying to allow the joints to come forward at address.

but that was not the total solution.

the crux was in the grip. it is so hard to explain, as photos,etc, will not come close to revealing this panacea of conflicting, golf ailments.

ps-i have also found out by trial and error, that what most people construe as being a problem setup-bending down into position to the ball- has very little bearing on the actual golf swing.

go figure. as a budding researcher ,this reminds me of  the analogy- a can of worms- the more you dig, the more loose ends.

[LagShaft]

I think the key to the golf swing is eye sight.  Have any of the instructors bothered to have their pupils checked at the beginning of their lessons?  For instance when I where my glasses I hit the ball 100% better probably pushing scratch at least until they become smudged or foggy or start to slip down my nose(maybe third hole I sweat a lot) The problem is that I look so much cooler with out glasses so I never wear them during rounds on the course and I don't see nearly as well with my contacts and designer dark shades.  Check  that it's not all eyesight I don't want to give up the shades  I'll get back to you in a couple of days with my evolved theory but this Is gunna be good wait for it.

Edited December 17, 2015 by LagShaft

[Dave325]

On December 10, 2015 at 0:00 PM, DaveP043 said:

For me, a proper set-up is the basis on which the rest of the golf swing is constructed.  A good set-up does not in any way guarantee a good swing, but a poor set-up makes it much more difficult to make consistently good contact.  That's not to say that you'll always get bad results from a poor set-up, just that it makes things more difficult.  The biggest problem is that there's not just one "good set-up", but instead a vast range of acceptable set-ups.  The important things is to work to find a set-up that allows you to make consistently good contact.  If you make changes to your swing, whether intentional or not, your set-up may also need to change to keep consistent solid contact.  Sadly, there's not much about golf that's "automatic."

I agree with this completely... A good setup is like the foundation of a building, in which a good swing is built on top of.

[mvmac]

5 hours ago, LagShaft said:

I think the key to the golf swing is eye sight.

I don't know if it's a "key" but I think it's important to give yourself a good chance to view the ball clearly.

[LagShaft]

7 hours ago, mvmac said:

I don't know if it's a "key" but I think it's important to give yourself a good chance to view the ball clearly.

I agree it's important and I've seen that I loose focus on the ball far less after your tip in my swing thread about head movement.  While pros and people who were taught as children could probably hit a good shot with their eyes closed people as young as 30 are probably suffering from some diminished eye sight or depth perception issues.   I also note a difference between wearing glasses and contacts but not to the extent implied in my post.  When I first started I thought I'd found the key when I wore my glasses for the first time to the range and had a good session, as it turns out it's just another thing that I have to manage. Thats what I was implying with my post.

Edited December 17, 2015 by LagShaft