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collapse's Downward Spiral (Limited Thread)


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2 hours ago, collapse said:

My point revolves around the natural hang of the arms (specifically lead arm)

When asked to clarify this point, and state it in simple, clear language, you failed to do so in the thread specifically devoted to it.

I could beat the crap out of you on the golf course taking all manner of goofy grips. It's not as important as you continue to suggest that it is.

2 hours ago, collapse said:

I posted the expressed opinions of Jack and Hogan on the importance of the grip.

Ignoring the fact that you also said "Watson" and haven't posted a single thing from him, thus far you posted things that say:

  • "golf begins with a good grip" - No kidding. We have to hold the club before we can swing it, and we may as well hold it in some fashion that's reasonably "good." That's ALL Ben Hogan said that you've quoted.
  • Jack said a bunch of stuff that says there's no one grip that works for all players.
  • Tiger Woods has used stronger grips, weaker grips, palmier grips, etc. And won using all of them.

In other words, you have the two greatest players of all time actively proving your theory wrong: Jack by saying he likes a palmy grip (which almost nobody teaches or uses at the higher levels), and how there are hundreds of variations of grips, and Tiger actively using and winning with different variations of grips.

This is so blindingly obvious that one can only conclude you're actively actively trying to remain blind. So, either you're incredibly stupid or you're trolling. I think it must be the latter, but if it's the former, recognize this and stop commenting on other people's swings, and stop sharing your theories.

And you still never cited Watson.

2 hours ago, collapse said:

I also previously posted photos of the natural arm position and the angle it takes on  with Justin Rose holding a club in a relaxed posture 

a) Justin Rose does not grip the club that way when he plays golf.
b) Justin Rose's left arm does not hang like that.
c) Justin Rose's left arm doesn't arrive at impact like it does when it's hanging by his side.
d) Justin Rose has two arms.
e) Justin Rose would kick your butt on the golf course if you gave him a strong, palmy, cross-handed grip.
f) That wasn't "relaxed." That was a freeze frame of a video where he's moving around.

2 hours ago, collapse said:

Iacas countered with a photo of Adam Scott holding a club in a seemingly contradictory way.The fact is,that Iacas photo came from an AS video in which Adam is notably taking his lead hand grip in what was almost his trademark manner yet never mentioned but for once on a PGA tour broadcast 2 or 3 years after he had begun doing it.I don't know how my point can be much clearer from what I have posted. 

I've watched Adam Scott play a lot of golf. He grips the club with the shaft pointing out toward the target slightly, with the back of the left hand in a very strong position (but the clubface wide open as well). Hell, he does this:

You and I must have very, very different definitions of "natural" because that move is not how his arms hang. His arms left arm doesn't hang with that much pronation.

What you seem to be prattling on about is a quirk of one player. Everyone else takes the grip differently. @mvmac doesn't take his grip this way, and once again, you could put Adam Scott (like Justin Rose) in a strong, palmy, cross-handed grip and he'd still kick your butt. You could completely disrupt the pre-shot routine he has and he'd still be a way, way, way, way, WAY better golfer than you. To quote myself once again:

18 hours ago, iacas said:

Please cite references from each where they say that a golfer will lower his handicap an appreciable amount just by changing their grip.

A good grip is important - you'll get no argument from anyone here on that - but it's nowhere near as important as you keep wanting it to be. It's several orders of magnitude less important. It's easy to fix, and results in very little changes to the overall motion and scoring capability of a golfer.

The blue text you've still failed to do. Not only have you failed to cite Tom Watson (one has to assume you mean Tom and not Bubba), and when you did cite people they actually said next to nothing or invalidated your point by talking about how tons of different styles of grips can work. The green you've failed to acknowledge, all while saying other things like "pros don't grip with the bottom hand first" (when confronted with a video of a top player doing just that, you predictably fail to respond to it).

Every one of your points has been refuted, often by the stuff you yourself cite as "proof." When someone refutes your points, you ignore it, fail to respond, and just keep carrying on.

Look down. That ice on which you're standing is very, very thin.

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2 hours ago, collapse said:

The importance of putting and short game are well recognized.Yet keep in mind, Sam Snead said if he had it to do all over again,he would work on the driver and 100yd in game.The old adage was Drive for show putt for dough.The new adage is ,drive for dough,putt for more dough.

No, it isn't, and you're restricted from posting in other threads until you meet the requirements in the special thread we set up for you.

It's bad advice like this - factually incorrect advice - that has lead to these kinds of requirements.

So as not to pollute the other thread, I'm going to move these to your grip thread.

The full swing matters far, far more than the short game or putting, even if you remove "driving" from the equation.

And, this post and response is a warning. You are not to post in other threads until you meet the criteria here. Again, you either:

  • You do what was asked of you in this thread.
  • You make a sincere post that addresses the topic at hand (no pun intended) and change your behavior here on the site.

Some more direct questions or responses you'll ignore:

  • What's your name?
  • Where do you live (just the city is fine - we don't care about what street you live on, or suburb).
  • Show us a video of your golf swing.
  • Show us a video of you taking your grip in some level of detail.

Until one of those conditions are met, you are not allowed to post elsewhere. Posting elsewhere may, should a moderator who is not me determine it to be a continuation of the same old behavior, result in your immediate removal from the site.

I'm going to rename this thread as it's become abundantly clear it's not going to help anyone, and the current title may mislead visitors into thinking there's good information to be found here.

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  • iacas changed the title to collapse's Downward Spiral (Limited Thread)

As I have said,the blue print quote are your words.As for pursuing the topic,I am happy to leave it where it is.I can only assume any further pursuit by you means an interest on your part.In which case I can only reply without content limitations....cheers

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2 minutes ago, collapse said:

As I have said,the blue print quote are your words.As for pursuing the topic,I am happy to leave it where it is.I can only assume any further pursuit by you means an interest on your part.In which case I can only reply without content limitations....cheers

Again you fail to respond to the questions. 

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2 minutes ago, collapse said:

As I have said,the blue print quote are your words.

They're your words paraphrased. You have told 20 handicappers that they need to work on the "small things." You told Eyad, a 36-turned-24, that you wanted to see his grip. You've repeatedly stressed the importance of the grip, while ducking the comments about how even I could kick your butt on the golf course giving you strokes with a wacky, weird, "bad" grip.

Even if we leave the blue text out of it, you've failed to cite Hogan, Nicklaus, and Watson saying what you claim they've said.

4 minutes ago, collapse said:

As for pursuing the topic,I am happy to leave it where it is.

You don't get to make that choice. You're being held accountable for the things you've said, the arguments you've picked, the responses you've ignored, etc.

5 minutes ago, collapse said:

I can only assume any further pursuit by you means an interest on your part. In which case I can only reply without content limitations....cheers

I am interested in providing good information to the millions who visit this site.

You can either continue to post here until one of the two conditions above is met, or you can leave and find another way to waste your time.

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15 hours ago, iacas said:

Great players are not often great instructors.

Great players are often a little clueless about WHY they are great players, as well.  Look at how many could relatively effortlessly flight the ball with a draw or fade while completely misunderstanding the basic ball flight laws?

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4 hours ago, iacas said:

They're your words paraphrased. You have told 20 handicappers that they need to work on the "small things." You told Eyad, a 36-turned-24, that you wanted to see his grip. You've repeatedly stressed the importance of the grip, while ducking the comments about how even I could kick your butt on the golf course giving you strokes with a wacky, weird, "bad" grip.

I'd be willing to bet that you could beat him if you took half your strokes (those from around 50 yards and in) using only a single hand, much less any "non-standard" grip.

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43 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

I'd be willing to bet that you could beat him if you took half your strokes (those from around 50 yards and in) using only a single hand, much less any "non-standard" grip.

Is anyone taking bets on whether @collapse and @mythbuster are the same person yet?

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3 minutes ago, iacas said:

I've banned @collapse. He continued right on down his merry road of bullshit.

Merry Christmas. This is my gift to many of you. :-)

Thanks. He was a complete waste of electrons.

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12 minutes ago, iacas said:

I've banned @collapse. He continued right on down his merry road of bullshit.

Merry Christmas. This is my gift to many of you. :-)

That's funny, I saw the warning notification and opened that first thinking,  "It's like an early Christmas present!", only to come here and see it in writing. 

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40 minutes ago, iacas said:

I've banned @collapse. He continued right on down his merry road of bullshit.

Merry Christmas. This is my gift to many of you. :-)

I think I played along fairly and even gave a little benefit of the doubt. You're right in this action i believe. Thank you.

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Note: This thread is 2102 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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