Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 1836 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

I hate aim point... It's funny that the guys that preach aim point also get angry about pace of play... I know once you learn it it's probably better and just as fast but it seems complicated and reminds me way to much of work...for some reason Geoff Magnum resonates with me and the idea of surveying a green on your approach walking up, having a target and working mostly on speed control just feels like the way to go... Maybe when I can quit worrying about slowing people down with my long game that will change.  So take that for what it's worth...the opinion of a high HC player who just likes to have fun but also thinks you should find a teaching technique that clicks not clacks in your head.

  • Upvote 1

  • Administrator
Posted
6 minutes ago, LagShaft said:

I hate aim point... It's funny that the guys that preach aim point also get angry about pace of play... I know once you learn it it's probably better and just as fast but it seems complicated and reminds me way to much of work...

AimPoint is the fastest AND most accurate way to read putts. Maybe AimPoint users complain about pace of play… because they can read a putt in less than ten seconds while other people are wandering around the hole for a minute or two?

6 minutes ago, LagShaft said:

for some reason Geoff Magnum resonates with me and the idea of surveying a green on your approach walking up, having a target and working mostly on speed control just feels like the way to go...

That's not really green reading, and once you have your aim point you focus on just speed with AimPoint as well.

6 minutes ago, LagShaft said:

Maybe when I can quit worrying about slowing people down with my long game that will change.  So take that for what it's worth...the opinion of a high HC player who just likes to have fun but also thinks you should find a teaching technique that clicks not clacks in your head.

I don't think you've really done much AimPoint training, though, have you?

I've been teaching it about as long as anyone. I'm not saying my experiences have to match yours (or vice versa), but I do have a fair amount of experience in working with it.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
10 minutes ago, LagShaft said:

I hate aim point... It's funny that the guys that preach aim point also get angry about pace of play...

I would say 99% of slow play happens from those who don't use aimpoint. Aim Point is not slow. 

10 minutes ago, LagShaft said:

I know once you learn it it's probably better and just as fast but it seems complicated and reminds me way to much of work..

It's not complicated. You can take a  lesson, practice a few times and you got it. Just like anything else in golf it needs practice. When I practice my putting overall I just go through the routine of getting use to slopes. It takes me what, 15 minutes to do that. Then I am good. 15 minutes a few times a week and I am a better green reader than most golfers out there. Sign me up ;)

 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
6 minutes ago, iacas said:

AimPoint is the fastest AND most accurate way to read putts. Maybe AimPoint users complain about pace of play… because they can read a putt in less than ten seconds while other people are wandering around the hole for a minute or two?

That's not really green reading, and once you have your aim point you focus on just speed with AimPoint as well.

I don't think you've really done much AimPoint training, though, have you?

I've been teaching it about as long as anyone. I'm not saying my experiences have to match yours (or vice versa), but I do have a fair amount of experience in working with it.

Agreed, I definitely don't slow anyone down with my putting routine. I use Aimpoint Express, but also know how to use the charts, and once you know what you're doing and have put in a little practice, it's just as fast as the plum-bobbing idiots and even faster when you consider how many less putts it takes you to get around the course.

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 hour ago, Ernest Jones said:

I would focus your attention on learning to control speed. IMO, that's the quickest way to lower your putts per round. I'll post a couple good practice drills a little later, kinda pressed for time right now. 

Alright, so here is my drill suggestion. Place a tee in the practice green about 5' in front of you. Place another tee about 25' in front of you. Now, putt a ball just past the first tee. Now putt a ball  just  past the ball you just putted. Keeping putting a ball just past the last one and see how many balls you can fit between the two tees without leaving one short. If you leave one short, meaning it didn't pass you last ball, start over. Once you can make it all the way to the 25' tee, start putting just short of your last ball and see how many you can fit coming back. 

Also, read this:

Something that I do, may or may not work for you, is to develop a feel for how heavy the putter head feels on the backstroke for any given distance. The farther back you bring the putter head, the heavier it will feel. I actually thing in terms of weight as opposed to speed, but YMMV.

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)

Bwahaha easy guys I thought that may strike a nerve... I don't often troll but when I do I admit it lol.  I've read through every thread about aim point on this site.       I've also watched a lot of aim point videos and carting a card ruler and a turpedo level onto each green with me has no appeal... I have to think this guy will watch the same videos so so convince us otherwise with out insult if you would be so kind... And @iacas if there is one thing that I can teach you in my experience it's that telling people how much experience you have is meaningless because if your good people will know... And if your not... Well then it really doesn't matter how much experience you have now does it.

Edited by LagShaft

  • Administrator
Posted
Just now, LagShaft said:

I've also watched a lot of aim point videos and carting a card ruler and a turpedo level onto each green with me has no appeal.

That's not how you do AimPoint. That's how you learn AimPoint. It would be illegal to use AimPoint if you had to use a level and a ruler… So, do you understand AimPoint? I'm not seeing a lot of evidence saying you do. If you're just trolling, well, stop.

Just now, LagShaft said:

And @iacas if there is one thing that I can teach you in my experience it's that telling people how much experience you have is meaningless because if your good people will know... And if your not... Well then it really doesn't matter how much experience you have now does it.

That's a goofy thing to say, isn't it?

Being "good" has nothing to do with this: I've taught a heck of a lot of people AimPoint, and they all read greens faster than the average golfer who hasn't learned AimPoint. That's all the "experience" comment speaks to - I have more than a small sample size by which to judge the relative speed of reading greens.

And I'm quite good, too. :-)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
10 hours ago, LagShaft said:

Bwahaha easy guys I thought that may strike a nerve... I don't often troll but when I do I admit it lol.  I've read through every thread about aim point on this site.       I've also watched a lot of aim point videos and carting a card ruler and a turpedo level onto each green with me has no appeal... I have to think this guy will watch the same videos so so convince us otherwise with out insult if you would be so kind... And @iacas if there is one thing that I can teach you in my experience it's that telling people how much experience you have is meaningless because if your good people will know... And if your not... Well then it really doesn't matter how much experience you have now does it.

Then why do it? All it does is lower the value others may have of your opinion. 

I've done AimPoint for 4 years now and frankly no one notices. I even played with a teaching pro in Florida, who complimented me on my putting and he had no idea. I am among the best putters in my league, maybe the best. It's quick, it's easy and it's is dead-on-balls accurate. 

Your impression of how AimPoint is done is also based on cursory knowledge. I've read a lot of Geoff Magnum's stuff and he has a lot of good information. But his opposition to AimPoint is more of an ego thing. He even went as far as trying to invent a very similar system, but it was stunningly complicated.

Your other comment about Magnum's approach, "surveying a green on your approach walking up, having a target and working mostly on speed control just feels like the way to go." applies to all green reading methods including AimPoint. So there is nothing  unique to Geoff there.

What AimPoint does do it dispel the myths in putting like, "the ball will always break toward water or away from the mountains etc." The ball will always break downhill period. AimPoint shows you how to measure that quickly and accurately.

We are trying to help a new member with some putting issues. Your comments are not helping, they are not constructive and go as far belittling the help. If you don't have anything constructive to add, then why post?

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 5 years later...
  • Moderator
Posted

I had a group lesson with @iacas, we had 6 or 7 people in the group.  I believe we spent maybe 1-1/2 to 2 hours.  For a private lesson, a full hour seems reasonable, but I don't have much to compare it to.

  • Thumbs Up 1

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
31 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

How long is a typical Aim Point lesson.  There is one close to me who teaches a 1 hour private lesson.

It has been a few years since I took the Aimpoint class.   In one hour they taught me putts with only one break.    A second class which covered multiple breaks wasn't included in the class that I took.    They have since changed and now have a speed class.  The best idea is to talk to the instructor and ask the question.   They'll be responsive to your questions.

From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
2 hours ago, SemperFi said:

How long is a typical Aim Point lesson.  There is one close to me who teaches a 1 hour private lesson.

If it’s private, one hour may be fine. I’ve only done group lessons and they were two hours. It’s well worth it.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted

One hour for a private one is pretty normal. In a group, 90-120 minutes.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I‘d like to come back to the idea that a putting strategy can mean paying attention to where to leave the ball if you miss (e.g. below the hole giving you a straight uphill putt). This really starts with the approach shot - if I am chipping from around the green, I will try to leave myself an uphill putt, i.e. the putting strategy starts before you even get to the green.


Posted
On 2/25/2021 at 5:28 PM, SemperFi said:

How long is a typical Aim Point lesson.  There is one close to me who teaches a 1 hour private lesson.

I will be doing AimPoint in March and it will be a 90 minute private lesson.  He said since only me he could cover everything in 1 session so no 2nd lesson. He offers free refreshers if I feel the need.

  • Thumbs Up 1

Stuart M.
 

I am a "SCRATCH GOLFER".  I hit ball, Ball hits Tree, I scratch my head. 😜

Driver: Ping G410 Plus 10.5* +1* / 3 Hybrid: Cleveland HIBORE XLS / 4,5 & 6 Hybrids: Mizuno JP FLI-HI / Irons/Wedges 7-8-9-P-G: Mizuno JPX800 HD / Sand Wedge: Mizuno JPX 800 / Lob Wedge: Cleveland CBX 60* / Putter: Odyssey White Hot OG 7S / Balls: Srixon Soft / Beer: Labatt Blue (or anything nice & cold) 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted
9 hours ago, graham57 said:

I‘d like to come back to the idea that a putting strategy can mean paying attention to where to leave the ball if you miss (e.g. below the hole giving you a straight uphill putt). This really starts with the approach shot - if I am chipping from around the green, I will try to leave myself an uphill putt, i.e. the putting strategy starts before you even get to the green.

That’s not advisable. You score worse doing that than just trying to get the ball close to the hole.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1836 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Day 78 - 2026-03-10 Backswing work at the net with foam balls, a few real ball swings.
    • Day 525 - 2026-03-10 Got some work in before lessons today (was going to play after but it decided to POUR). Then like three minutes in later on.
    • Day 2 (10 Mar 26) - Worked on weight shift feel using slap stick drill (hands about 6” apart - coming back weight on trail foot - down - thru weight on lead foot….moved it to hitting chips w/9i playing what I call “leap frog” - hit 1st about 10yds, the next a couple past the 1st, for about 6 balls total.  Love it as the lies change, the distances vary making each swing slightly different. 
    • The first post is here:   Do you have an overly long backswing that ruins sequencing and leads to poor shots? In nearly 20 years of teaching, I've found 5 common faults. You don't have to swing like Jon Rahm, but a shorter swing will probably help you #PlayBetter golf. Which is your fatal flaw? #1 - Trail Elbow Bend Average golfers ♥️ bending their trail elbows. It can feel powerful! Tour players bend their trail elbows MUCH less. A wider trail elbow creates a longer hand path and preserves structure. It also forces more chest turn; not everything longer is bad! Overly bending your trail elbow can wreak havoc on your swing. It pulls your arms across/beside your body. It requires more time to get the elbow bend "out," ruining your sequencing. The lead arm often bends and low point control is destroyed. The misconception is that it will create more speed, but that's often the opposite of what happens. Golfers often feel they swing "easier" but FASTER with wider trail elbows. Want to play better golf with a shorter backswing? Don't bend your elbow so much. #2 - Hip (Pelvis) Turn I see this all the time: a golfer's hips are only 5-10° open at impact, but he turns them back 60°+ in the backswing. Unless your father is The Flash, your hips are probably not getting 40° open at impact from there! That's more rotation than Rory! Golfers who over-rotate their pelvis often over-turn everything - trail thigh/knee, chest/shoulders, etc. They have more work to do in the same ~0.3 seconds as a Tour player who turns back ~40° and turns through to impact 40° or so. Want to shorten the pelvis turn a bit? Learn to internally rotate into the trail hip, externally rotate away from the lead hip, and do "less" with your knees (extending and flexing) in the backswing. Learn some separation between chest and pelvis. #3 - Rolled Inside and Lifted Up Amateurs love to send the club (and their arms) around them. You see the red golfer here all the time at your local range. The problem? Your arms mostly take the club UP, not around. Going around creates no height until you have to hoist the club up in the air because you're halfway through your backswing and the club is waist high and three feet behind your butt! 😄  Learn to use your arms properly. Arms = up/down, body = around. Most golfers learn how little their arms really have to do in the backswing. The picture here is all you've gotta do (but maybe with a properly sized club!). #4 - Wide Takeaway Width is good, no? Yes, if you're wide at the right time and in the right spots. Golfers seeking width often don't hinge the club much early in the backswing… forcing them to hinge it late. Hinging the club late puts a lot of momentum into the club, wrists, and elbow just before we need to make a hairpin turn in transition and go the other direction at the start of the downswing. When you're driving into a hairpin curve, you go into it slowly and accelerate out of it. Waiting to hinge is like coasting down the straightaway and accelerating into the hairpin. Your car ends up off the road, and your golf ball off the course. Give hinging at a faster rate (earlier) then coasting to the top a try. You'll be able to accelerate out of the hairpin without the momentum of the arms and club pulling in the wrong direction.   #5 - Sway and Tilt Some sway is good but sometimes I see a golfer who just… keeps… swaying… Their chest leans forward a bit for balance, resulting in a whole lotta lean. The green line below is the GEARS "virtual spine." Pros sway a bit, but stay ~90°. This sway often combines with the extra pelvis turn because this golfer is not putting ANY limits on what the "middle of them" (their pelvis) is doing in the backswing. These golfers spend a lot of energy just to get back to neutral! The best players begin pushing forward EARLY in the backswing. Often before the club gets much past their trail foot! Pushing forward (softly) first stops your backward sway and then begins to get your body moving toward the target. Push softly, but early!  
    • I  no longer spend the time and effort trying to sell something I no longer need. Instead, if the clubs are in good condition, I go to my local golf shop or even Dicks Sporting Goods. Trade the clubs in for store credit and pick up something I need, like a hat. Cause you always need another golf hat!
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.