Sharapova’s misstep prompts PGA Tour to take closer look at drug list [Golfweek]

[iacas]

On March 7, 2016 at 0:05 PM, colin007 said:

honestly, i see no issues with performance enhancing drugs in golf.  i say let them use whatever they want.  its not like theyre running around or jumping in golf. let them smoke dope, or take uppers, whatever.  makes no difference, i think.

a) I completely disagree that "professional sports don't matter." Pro sports are a HUGE industry.
b) I think it's pretty widely accepted as true that the PGA Tour's drug policy exists to help them comply so golf could get in the Olympics with other sports.

[colin007]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

a) I completely disagree that "professional sports don't matter." Pro sports are a HUGE industry.
b) I think it's pretty widely accepted as true that the PGA Tour's drug policy exists to help them comply so golf could get in the Olympics with other sports.

I can't argue that it's not a huge industry. But like I said, in "the big picture", it matters nothing to me. It falls under that category of "first world problems". Which is why I don't particularly care if they juice up and run the Olympics 100m dash in under 9 seconds. 

The "sports" issue is one where you're either on one side or the other. It's not a big deal, i just don't think golf is a sport like baseball or football or soccer. Not everything on ESPN is a sport to me.

[iacas]

Just now, colin007 said:

I can't argue that it's not a huge industry. But like I said, in "the big picture", it matters nothing to me. It falls under that category of "first world problems".

So? That's you. It matters quite a bit to enough people that we don't just allow them to use whatever drugs they want to use. If "big picture" is how you view everything, why are you wasting your life typing on a forum? Because you care enough about golf, despite the "big picture," to post.

Just now, colin007 said:

The "sports" issue is one where you're either on one side or the other. It's not a big deal, i just don't think golf is a sport like baseball or football or soccer. Not everything on ESPN is a sport to me.

Off topic for this thread, but if you've worked with or seen a modern PGA Tour player, you might change your mind. Rory is an athlete. Golf at the highest levels requires precision, speed, touch, flexibility, power, etc. And one player has to do everything. What's an offensive lineman have to do in football? Push people?

Anyway, OT for this thread. Your stance on drugs is goofy.

[colin007]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

So? That's you. It matters quite a bit to enough people that we don't just allow them to use whatever drugs they want to use. If "big picture" is how you view everything, why are you wasting your life typing on a forum? Because you care enough about golf, despite the "big picture," to post.

---

Off topic for this thread, but if you've worked with or seen a modern PGA Tour player, you might change your mind. Rory is an athlete. Golf at the highest levels requires precision, speed, touch, flexibility, power, etc. And one player has to do everything. What's an offensive lineman have to do in football? Push people?

Anyway, OT for this thread. Your stance on drugs is goofy.

How do you quote a single post and then break it into different sections? I don't seem to know how to do that.

I post on a golf forum because I have the luxury of doing so. Just because I personally like to do something doesn't mean that it matters. Because it doesn't. My hobbies and recreation are purely frivolous. I have family in South America that doesn't have that choice.

It's kind of like that judge's quote about what pornography is, that he knows it when he sees it. I know a sport when I see one. It's totally just what I think. Gymnastics? Sport. Figure skating? Not a sport. 

My stance on drugs is completely goofy, I agree. Especially for a non-drug user. 

Anyways, back to the topic. 

[iacas]

Just now, colin007 said:

How do you quote a single post and then break it into different sections? I don't seem to know how to do that.

Cut, copy, paste.

Just now, colin007 said:

I post on a golf forum because I have the luxury of doing so. Just because I personally like to do something doesn't mean that it matters. Because it doesn't. My hobbies and recreation are purely frivolous. I have family in South America that doesn't have that choice.

So? Because you think sports are frivolous, we should just let people do whatever they want? Something doesn't have to be "world changing" or "big picture important" for it to have rules that make sense. You're arguing from a position of nonsense. If we take your position and apply it to everything, why, we shouldn't have many laws. After all, what's it matter, big picture, if I turn left on red if nobody's harmed? Your life doesn't even matter, "big picture," does it?

Besides, I don't even agree that sports aren't important "big picture" events. For all of human history we've had sporting types of events - recreation is very important, and that is not even ignoring the "big picture." Without recreation, of which sports is a role, the "big picture" is drastically affected.

Just now, colin007 said:

It's kind of like that judge's quote about what pornography is, that he knows it when he sees it. I know a sport when I see one. It's totally just what I think. Gymnastics? Sport. Figure skating? Not a sport. 

I disagree. It's still off topic.

[colin007]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

So? Because you think sports are frivolous, we should just let people do whatever they want? Something doesn't have to be "world changing" or "big picture important" for it to have rules that make sense. You're arguing from a position of nonsense. If we take your position and apply it to everything, why, we shouldn't have many laws. After all, what's it matter, big picture, if I turn left on red if nobody's harmed? Your life doesn't even matter, "big picture," does it?

Besides, I don't even agree that sports aren't important "big picture" events. For all of human history we've had sporting types of events - recreation is very important, and that is not even ignoring the "big picture." Without recreation, of which sports is a role, the "big picture" is drastically affected.

 I think many people already do whatever they want. So for me, I'm only commenting on this specific, particular instance, drugs in sports. It really doesn't matter to me If people want to get roided up and run really really really fast. It's just a spectacle. Driving a car with other people around is a different issue. Btw, you should see people driving in Colombia lol...left on red, hell red lights don't mean anything half the time. People turn left across three lanes from the far right lane all the time, it's nuts. Anyways....

And depressingly, no, my life doesn't really matter in the big picture. But I try to be compassionate to people I meet, and be kinder than necessary.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

 I think many people already do whatever they want. So for me, I'm only commenting on this specific, particular instance, drugs in sports. It really doesn't matter to me If people want to get roided up and run really really really fast. It's just a spectacle. Driving a car with other people around is a different issue. Btw, you should see people driving in Colombia lol...left on red, hell red lights don't mean anything half the time. People turn left across three lanes from the far right lane all the time, it's nuts. Anyways....

It's really not "just a spectacle." People still want the sports they watch to be "fair" and so on. There was outrage over steroids in baseball people (despite everyone doing it) still disparage the NFL teams of the 70s for their steroid use… the list goes on.

[DrvFrShow]

In this particular debate involving meldonium, the question is whether or not WADA overstepped in the first place.

Sharapova was being treated with the drug for pre-diabetes. For the past 10 years she has reported this drug on her forms. Being from Russia, she was prescribed the drug to make up for low magnesium uptake. In the west, they would have prescribed magnesium, a change in diet, and increased activity levels to increase blood flow. Mind you she already is an athlete, so increasing activity levels is a little bit of a stretch.

The idea that the drug has anti-estrogenic activity stated in the Golfweek article is in error. It doesn't work that way, but it has been added to that list for some reason because it is "suspected."

From Wikipedia:

Quote

 

A December 2015 study in the journal Drug Testing and Analysis argued that meldonium "demonstrates an increase in endurance performance of athletes, improved rehabilitation after exercise, protection against stress, and enhanced activations of central nervous system (CNS) functions".

However some experts question that the effect the drug has improves athletic performance. Grindeks said in a statement, that it did not believe meldonium’s use should be banned for athletes. It said the drug worked mainly by reducing damage to cells that can be caused by certain byproducts of carnitine. Meldonium “is used to prevent death of ischemic cells and not to increase performance of normal cells,” the statement said. “Meldonium cannot improve athletic performance, but it can stop tissue damage in the case of ischemia,” which is lack of blood flow to the heart.

 

The only athletes who have tested positive are from the former Eastern Bloc countries of Russia, Georgia, Ukraine, plus one from Sweden and one from Ethiopia. I seriously doubt this drug would have that much effect on the game. Golfers have known about it for years and have been able to order it online from Eastern Europe for as long as it has been available. If has not been in widespread use by now.

Athletes are allowed to use drugs on the restricted list by prescription with a therapeutic use exemption (TUE), however, this drug is not approved by the FDA or the equivalent in the EU. It was approved for use in Russia and in the former Eastern Bloc. I suspect politics are involved here as well.

 

[newtogolf]

The list of banned drugs is getting ridiculous, many drugs on the list haven't even been proven to provide any performance enhancement.  

[BruceMGF]

On 3/12/2016 at 6:47 PM, iacas said:

There was outrage over steroids in baseball people (despite everyone doing it) still disparage the NFL teams of the 70s for their steroid use… 

NFL players in the 70s still bore some resemblance to normal human beings.  Today they're like The Incredible Hulk.  Do fans really think they were just born that way?

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, BruceMGF said:

NFL players in the 70s still bore some resemblance to normal human beings.  Today they're like The Incredible Hulk.  Do fans really think they were just born that way?

What's your point, do you still think NFL players take steroids?  If yes, then are you questioning the NFL drug testing program?  

[colin007]

3 hours ago, newtogolf said:

What's your point, do you still think NFL players take steroids?  If yes, then are you questioning the NFL drug testing program?  

i would. the players are definitely taking HGH and not getting caught. i guess it depends on if you think HGH and steroids are the same thing.

[JxQx]

43 minutes ago, colin007 said:

i would. the players are definitely taking HGH and not getting caught. i guess it depends on if you think HGH and steroids are the same thing.

They are probably also using testosterone. Now they can synthesize it from animals vs plants making it a lot harder to detect and given how wide the range is for normal testosterone levels it wouldn't be hard to make sure you are in the top end of that range.

[newtogolf]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

i would. the players are definitely taking HGH and not getting caught. i guess it depends on if you think HGH and steroids are the same thing.

It doesn't matter given both HGH and steroids are on the banned list.  Seems we are at the point where the testing isn't determining whether athletes are using but how well they cover it up.  

Martavis Bryant, gets suspended for a season, Josh Gordon suspended for life for recreational drug use but all the guys using PED's are getting away with it because they are smarter about hiding it.  

Seems like the drug policy isn't working well to me.    

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Martavis Bryant, gets suspended for a season, Josh Gordon suspended for life for recreational drug use but all the guys using PED's are getting away with it because they are smarter about hiding it.

Bryant previously failed a marijuana test, and was suspended for a season (he didn't appeal) because, according to his agents, he was "depressed and lonely" and thus failed to appear at his later drug tests, which the NFL regards the same as failing them. And for all we know he would have failed them spectacularly, but if he's depressed and that's not just BS, I wish him well in his year off from the game.

/OT

[No Mulligans]

18 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

Sharapova was being treated with the drug for pre-diabetes. For the past 10 years she has reported this drug on her forms. Being from Russia, she was prescribed the drug to make up for low magnesium uptake.

 

That is what Sharapova and her lawyer have said, and I wouldn't be surprised if her Dr. would say that also.  It was reported that Russian athletes are using this "heart medication" at a higher rate than the Russian aging population.  Given that, Sharapova's statement is very suspicious and it's hard for me to give her the benefit of the doubt.  However I'm not thinking she was trying to cheat with a PED, I think she and her team missed the change on the banned substance list.

The drug is not used for pre-diabetes.  Per Wikipedia:

Quote

Meldonium is used clinically to treat angina and myocardial infarction.^[4][5][6][7] The first clinical trial testing the efficacy of using a combination of meldonium and lisinopril, an angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitor, to treatchronic heart failure, was reported in 2005, and concluded that the combination of meldonium and lisinopril may improve the quality of life, exercise capacity, and mechanisms of peripheral circulation of patients with chronic heart failure.^{[8][dead link]} A further research report in 2008 concluded that the combination of meldonium and lisinopril improved carotid baroreceptor reflex in patients with chronic heart failure.^{[9][dead link]} In February 2010, a further clinical trial testing the efficacyand safety of meldonium in combination with standard exercise tolerance therapy in angina patients concluded that the drug candidate significantly improved the exercise tolerance of stable angina patients.^{[10][dead link] [11][third-party source needed] [12]}