Does mental game affect your swing?

[Lihu]

There were a couple threads where I found myself at odds with other posters, and this topic below would be off topic.

So, please explain why you think mental game affects your swing, and describe a specific situation where it does.

Mental game doesn't affect my full swing, primarily because I use 5SK. As crappy as my swing is, I can fix specific mechanical parts like a mechanic fixing a car using 5SK as a guide. I watch video, note the faults and fix the glaring one(s) at the range or wherever "5 minutes a day". I attempt to apply them on the course. It's very much a mechanical process. Hence, not dependent upon my mood or mental game.

Here's what I am thinking looking down an "intimidating" shot. "As I stand over a hilltop looking down on a narrow landing with over 200 yards of bush and natural vegetation between me and the narrow landing. I make my practice swing. Did I finish correctly? Did I get my centered turn? Did my weight shift enough? Is my lead wrist palmered? Is my follow through indicating enough hip turn? No? Do it again. Setup the shot. Ball positioned correctly for the club in hand? Shift. Shift. Shift until everything is in place. Do a little takeaway, then let down, address the ball. Make swing." Basically, this is what I do on every swing, and takes like 10-12 seconds.

Is there anywhere in that entire sequence that I am affected by mental game? Not really. I'm so busy self checking that I got the 5 simple keys to the best of my ability, I don't have time to think about how I'm going to mishit.

Even though I would self rate my on course swing at 1.8 keys which is not that good a swing, my swing is very much mechanical. Any failure, is a mechanics failure, not a mental one.

What I think is a reasonable swing is one that is greater than roughly 1.5 keys. That's enough to get around the course and enjoy your game. If it is built mechanically, you should be scoring much better than bogey on average.

So, if you are still not convinced that a swing should not be dependent upon mental game, please explain the specifics.

[dennyjones]

I believe that the mental aspect of the game is huge.   There are several threads here that talk about being a better player if they could focus better or had a different attitude toward a specific part of their game.   

My golf partner last year always had trouble with a par 5 that was about 500 yards.   With a good drive and a good second approach it was just a chip shot to the elevated green.   He would almost always have trouble with his second shot because he believed it would be difficult.  No other hole gave him trouble, it was the mental part of his game that he needed to improve.

[Lihu]

 

I believe that the mental aspect of the game is huge.   There are several threads here that talk about being a better player if they could focus better or had a different attitude toward a specific part of their game.   

My golf partner last year always had trouble with a par 5 that was about 500 yards.   With a good drive and a good second approach it was just a chip shot to the elevated green.   He would almost always have trouble with his second shot because he believed it would be difficult.  No other hole gave him trouble, it was the mental part of his game that he needed to improve.

What was he thinking and feeling as he was setting up for his swing? 

I'm a little confused why the second shot was so difficult? Was it over water? Tight?

Does he drive far enough that it can be played as a par 5? Does he drive 200, 3W-180, have 120 left?

Maybe the right strategy would be to reduce the length of that second shot?

Sounds like a course management issue rather than a mental one?

[Ernest Jones]

I guess for me, the mental game comes down to trusting the swing. Otherwise you start to tinker on course and that's a killer. Believe 100% in the swing you brought to the course regardless of score and don't tinker. Play golf not golf swing. As long as I am playing golf instead of golf swing, I am more or less happy, the lower scores will come. 

[newtogolf]

So, if you are still not convinced that a swing should not be dependent upon mental game, please explain the specifics.

Ideally a swing "should" not be dependent upon mental game but in reality it is.  I see good golfers make bad shots under pressure quite often.  

Of course every bad swing from a professional golfer can be analyzed in slow motion where mechanical flaw(s) can be be seen.  The question is why at that particular point did someone who usually swings mechanically sound fail to do so.  Is it the randomness of their swing or is it mental?  

I've seen a lot of good golfers mess up their drive at the first tee box when there are strangers waiting to tee off.  Is it coincidence, poor mechanics or did the golfer feel added pressure to hit a good drive that resulted in added tension in their hands and body that caused them to slice or pull hook?  

Yes, ultimately most bad shots are a result of a mechanical flaw, but it's the cause of the mechanical flaw that some of us attribute to mental where as you seem to not.  

[Ernest Jones]

Edit* obviously the better your swing, the easier it is to trust it. That's why technique trumps mental game. Tiger's (old Tiger ) mental game and my swing will probably score a few shots better than my average. But my metal game and Tiger's swing, is going to tear it up. PLUS my mental game is going to be pretty bangin' if I get to use Tiger's swing. 

[Lihu]

 

I guess for me, the mental game comes down to trusting the swing. Otherwise you start to tinker on course and that's a killer. Believe 100% in the swing you brought to the course regardless of score and don't tinker. Play golf not golf swing. As long as I am playing golf instead of golf swing, I am more or less happy, the lower scores will come. 

Exactly, you have to trust that the stuff you were practicing was correct. On the course you just implement what you practiced.

At least that's what I am currently attempting to do. Takes any emotional aspect out of my game, because I try to say to myself "Didn't work, more work for the next practice session."

Of course, that's hard to do. I'm still making changes on the course, but with video feedback and the whole package that comes with that. My playing partners are very patient.

[Jakester23]

For me I guess it's more about going through my preshot routine and commitment to each shot.  I've never felt like my mental game is holding me back unless I skip the two things in the previous sentence. My score is going to reflect how good my full swing is for the most part. I do feel like hitting a good tee shot on the 1st hole can boost your confidence. That being said I've also started birdie birdie and managed to screw up the back 9. 

[phillyk]

As I responded in the other thread, if anything happens in your personal life that is very traumatic, playing golf gets a lot harder.  I'm sure everyone has that one day that they can't get something out of their head.  Try all you want to make good swings and putt well, but with that thing bulging out of your head, it is really hard to play well.  Although, this isn't a everyday mental thing for most people, it is a situation @Lihu is asking for. 

I wonder if anyone could do this experiment.  Someone says to you that they'll give you a million dollars for shooting your average score at a certain course.  Can you do it?  It's just you, no one else.  For the first few holes, it may not mean a lot, but as you are coming down the stretch, that score gets in your head and you may start thinking too much.  The opposite is also possible, where it makes you play better with the added pressure.  But some people peel under pressure and some enjoy it (I think most people fall under the "peel" category).  That added pressure may help or hurt the swing, but it is still a mental disturbance that may make you better or weaker.

I think it we agreed in the other thread about game planning being not a mental issue.  But what about deviating from that game plan.  I think that would fall under mental, right?  Your in a match down one, coming to a drivable par 4 with trouble around the green.  Normally would take a long iron to be safe, but you have to make birdie to win the hole, so you switch to driver and try to swing just a bit faster.  It could be the right choice or not, but the point is, any thought whether a good outcome or bad that deviated from the "plan" was a mental choice (mental game).

Edited March 24, 2016 by phillyk

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

Quote

So, if you are still not convinced that a swing should not be dependent upon mental game, please explain the specifics.

Ideally a swing "should" not be dependent upon mental game but in reality it is.  I see good golfers make bad shots under pressure quite often.  

Of course every bad swing from a professional golfer can be analyzed in slow motion where mechanical flaw(s) can be be seen.  The question is why at that particular point did someone who usually swings mechanically sound fail to do so.  Is it the randomness of their swing or is it mental?  

I've seen a lot of good golfers mess up their drive at the first tee box when there are strangers waiting to tee off.  Is it coincidence, poor mechanics or did the golfer feel added pressure to hit a good drive that resulted in added tension in their hands and body that caused them to slice or pull hook?  

Yes, ultimately most bad shots are a result of a mechanical flaw, but it's the cause of the mechanical flaw that some of us attribute to mental where as you seem to not.  

I suppose I am still working on my swing and am still so busy going through all the checkpoints to notice anything else? This combined with the inability to have more than one thought in my mind at a time probably allows me to forget everything else. I have this unique ability of not being able to see the forest for the trees.

 

21 minutes ago, phillyk said:

As I responded in the other thread, if anything happens in your personal life that is very traumatic, playing golf gets a lot harder.  I'm sure everyone has that one day that they can't get something out of their head.  Try all you want to make good swings and putt well, but with that thing bulging out of your head, it is really hard to play well.  Although, this isn't a everyday mental thing for most people, it is a situation @Lihu is asking for.

Depending upon the situation, I'm not sure I would even be playing golf. Unless, it was to alleviate some of the pain from that situation. Basically, golf would allow me to shut out that pain. I assume so, because I had a situation like that before a shooting competition, and I ended up shooting about the same as I always shoot. It gave me a reprieve from the pain I was feeling otherwise.

 

21 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I wonder if anyone could do this experiment.  Someone says to you that they'll give you a million dollars for shooting your average score at a certain course.  Can you do it?  It's just you, no one else.  For the first few holes, it may not mean a lot, but as you are coming down the stretch, that score gets in your head and you may start thinking too much.  The opposite is also possible, where it makes you play better with the added pressure.  But some people peel under pressure and some enjoy it (I think most people fall under the "peel" category).  That added pressure may help or hurt the swing, but it is still a mental disturbance that may make you better or weaker.

I think it we agreed in the other thread about game planning being not a mental issue.  But what about deviating from that game plan.  I think that would fall under mental, right?  Your in a match down one, coming to a drivable par 4 with trouble around the green.  Normally would take a long iron to be safe, but you have to make birdie to win the hole, so you switch to driver and try to swing just a bit faster.  It could be the right choice or not, but the point is, any thought whether a good outcome or bad that deviated from the "plan" was a mental choice (mental game).

Once you are hitting balls from the tees to holes, it seems like that million dollars goes out of your mind and you just focus on every shot one at a time? For me, it would be the very first shot that I might still be thinking about the money, but after that it would be just motoring through course.

 

1 hour ago, Jakester23 said:

For me I guess it's more about going through my preshot routine and commitment to each shot.  I've never felt like my mental game is holding me back unless I skip the two things in the previous sentence. My score is going to reflect how good my full swing is for the most part. I do feel like hitting a good tee shot on the 1st hole can boost your confidence. That being said I've also started birdie birdie and managed to screw up the back 9. 

That's exactly how I "feel" too.

I've had good rounds end up terrible and great rounds come from bland playing. The common denominator for me was how well I was swinging.

[baller7345]

Ideally your mental outlook shouldn't effect your play.  Unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world.  For me its specific holes on my home course that I let get into my head.  For instance #6 is a 406 yard dogleg right par 4 that shouldn't be that hard if you are able to hit something with distance while cutting the dogleg (a lot of people have trouble clearing the tree line with driver....never been an issue with me).

I almost never have a problem off the tee and rarely have any real issues with the approach (GIRs aren't as high as I'd like but I'm almost always around the pin after 2), but I've had a lot of short game issues on that hole in the past and I start over thinking how I'm going to play my chip/pitch/putt.  I 3 putt that green more than any on the course (and its not that hard of a green), I also flub more chips there and generally am more likely to take what should be a par and turn it into a double bogey on that hole.  Its not all due to a lack of ability, that stupid hole is in my head.  I've been a little better at it this year, but last year it was nightmarish.  It may start off not actually being mental, but I believe eventually it can become a mental problem.

Also, if the mental side of the game didn't affect your swing then the yips wouldn't be the nightmare it sometimes is for the pros.

[bkuehn1952]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

... please explain why you think the mental game affects your swing, and describe a specific situation where it does.

I suspect your situation is fairly unique.  Trying to logically explain an essentially illogical, emotional reaction to someone who does not think the same way may be impossible.

[pumaAttack]

It absolutely does.

If I am having a good round, say close to par, I will get ahead of myself.  When that happens I lose focus and let a few mechanics slip.  This is especially the case with short putts.  I can get nervous over a three footer for par and tighten my grip and push the putt.  These are putts I would never miss on a normal scenario. 

 

Since mental energy is needed for golf, when your tire mentally your golf swing will suffer.

[phillyk]

13 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

It absolutely does.

If I am having a good round, say close to par, I will get ahead of myself.  When that happens I lose focus and let a few mechanics slip.  This is especially the case with short putts.  I can get nervous over a three footer for par and tighten my grip and push the putt.  These are putts I would never miss on a normal scenario. 

 

Since mental energy is needed for golf, when your tire mentally your golf swing will suffer.

This is very true.  When I was going into 18 at -7, one of my lowest rounds ever, I was shaking.  It's tough to remained focused when all you can think about is how awesome the day was, and if you'd birdie that to be at -8.

[Valleygolfer]

@Lihu, I hope I get to play with you sometime because I will talk the whole time you are swinging the club, set off firecrackers and shoot a gun... Doesn't matter because you aren't thinking or could be affected by anything mentally. According to what you say you are a machine.

 

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

@Lihu, I hope I get to play with you sometime because I will talk the whole time you are swinging the club, set off firecrackers and shoot a gun... Doesn't matter because you aren't thinking or could be affected by anything mentally. According to what you say you are a machine.

 

Sure, we should try to hook up. I'd love to see what the course Marshall has to say about the firecrackers.

I am not a machine, otherwise, I would be shooting 60s without stopping after 13-14 holes.

 

43 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

I suspect your situation is fairly unique.  Trying to logically explain an essentially illogical, emotional reaction to someone who does not think the same way may be impossible.

This thread already had two people respond in a similar fashion to me and they are also mid/high handicappers.

OTOH, my not seeing the forest for the trees mentality might make it easier for me.

[JetFan1983]

For me it does yes. Frustration prevents me from playing my best and very often triggers regression during the course of a round. Right now, I'm working on changing my mental approach in that I'm specifically trying to be more process oriented and observational about what I'm feeling as opposed to being results oriented and playing with emotion. 

At this point I'm trying to train my mind to not care at all what the ball does once I hit it. Instead, I'm going to be observational as to what I'm feeling so hopefully my pattern can tighten. I think I already have the mechanics to shoot lower than I am, so I think tightening my mental approach can only help things. It's not something I've ever really focused on before, and it's very possible that this type of work is "a priority piece" or me in conjunction with whatever mechanical changes I'm working on as well. 

Mental game after all is an SV skill, even if it's only an SV1 skill. Don't ignore it, it can save you strokes... and dare I say, help in enjoying the game more. Golf is frustrating at every single level, so just the right mindset given your current abilities is key IMO. 

 

 

 

 

[ScouseJohnny]

The (academic) psychological literature has quite a lot to say about golf - apparently it's a game that is fruitful (in terms of data) for psychologists.

This is rather interesting....some Australian research: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.500.1605&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Summarizing it rather broadly:

"Elite" golfers (touring professionals, top college players etc) - have almost eliminated any mental element at all:

when performing at their peak, the golf swing was effortless and automatic, requiring little
if any conscious thought to control movement. Peak performance was also characterized by a
narrowly defined focus of attention and total immersion in the task at hand. All felt in control of
themselves, their emotions, thoughts, level of arousal, and their performance. More than 80% of
the sample reported a high level of self-confidence during peak performance. They played
without fear, unconcerned by the negative consequences of poor shots. They felt physically and
mentally relaxed, and enjoyed the experience of playing well and achieving their goals. Other
characteristics of peak performance, including the use of clear and vivid imagery, were reported
less frequently by this sample of elite golfers.

Low handicap amateurs vs high handicap amateurs:

Skilled golfers (those with lower handicaps) reported greater mental preparation characterized by pregame and preshot planning, rehearsal, and visualisation. They were also found to have a higher level of concentration when playing golf, greater psychomotor automaticity and consistency in the various facets of the game, and higher levels of commitment to performing well in the sport. The better golfers in this sample were less troubled by negative emotions and cognitions. They were less likely to be nervous or anxious, frustrated or angry, and were less inclined to think of past mistakes, missed opportunities, or other negative thoughts when performing in competitions.