Common root causes of flipping

[Ernest Jones]

On April 14, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Rainmaker said:

If I were a cub maker, I'd make an UBER Game Improvement iron that had a little face and grooves on the hosel.  Free idea for whoever is bold enough. 

   

Like!

[iacas]

"Now I've got good impact."

I beg to differ.

I'd look at any of the Key #2 videos at http://purestrike5sk.com/videos.php before I'd consider Shawn's stuff. He was popular because he got on YouTube early.

[Rainmaker]

Ahh Shawn Clement.  I like the guy a lot and I think he has some great tips.  But I disagree one of his main ideas . .that we are "gravity experts" and we all know, intuitively how to swing a golf club.  I just disagree. 

I really like the 5 keys system.  It makes sense to me.  I actually checked to see if there are any 5 keys teachers in my area but it looks like I'll have to make a little road trip if I want to check one out.   Maybe sometime this summer. 

[Ernest Jones]

7 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Ahh Shawn Clement.  I like the guy a lot and I think he has some great tips.  But I disagree one of his main ideas . .that we are "gravity experts" and we all know, intuitively how to swing a golf club.  I just disagree. 

I really like the 5 keys system.  It makes sense to me.  I actually checked to see if there are any 5 keys teachers in my area but it looks like I'll have to make a little road trip if I want to check one out.   Maybe sometime this summer. 

Look into Evolvr. You get access to the same instructors for peanuts. 

Shawn Clement looks like Will Farrell's long lost twin brother. I can't take anyone that looks like Will Farrell seriously. 

[Rainmaker]

Speaking of Youtube drills . .THIS . .is the one that helped me the most.  I like this one . .a lot.  I just like to hear him say "Shoulder" and "Down", lol.  But it was an eye-opener for me.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

Look into Evolvr. You get access to the same instructors for peanuts. 

Shawn Clement looks like Will Farrell's long lost twin brother. I can't take anyone that looks like Will Farrell seriously. 

is Evolvr still going on?  I looked around the site for a link and didn't find . .I thought maybe they stopped doing it.  Is there a link to it?

[Ernest Jones]

6 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Speaking of Youtube drills . .THIS . .is the one that helped me the most.  I like this one . .a lot.  I just like to hear him say "Shoulder" and "Down", lol.  But it was an eye-opener for me.

 

 

is Evolvr still going on?  I looked around the site for a link and didn't find . .I thought maybe they stopped doing it.  Is there a link to it?

http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

is Evolvr still going on?  I looked around the site for a link and didn't find . .I thought maybe they stopped doing it.  Is there a link to it?

We have never stopped. 40+ students at all times, including many forum members.

[Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

We have never stopped. 40+ students at all times, including many forum members.

I followed the link - that's a deal and a half!  I'm going to sign up. 

[Ernest Jones]

35 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I followed the link - that's a deal and a half!  I'm going to sign up. 

You'll be glad you did. 

[dchoye]

For me flipping happens when my left thumb gets too tight on the grip at 12 o'clock . The shaft comes in too vertical 

I try to feel a strong left hand grip and more over the last three fingers and palm

Also my shoulders are too level thru impact makes flip as well 

 

[Ernest Jones]

Hitting low chips is a good way to practice flat left wrist at impact. Listen for that crisp, clicky sound at contact. You'll notice when you get that sound, that your hands definitely led the clubhead. 

[Rainmaker]

2 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

Hitting low chips is a good way to practice flat left wrist at impact. Listen for that crisp, clicky sound at contact. You'll notice when you get that sound, that your hands definitely led the clubhead. 

I can do the low chip move.  I actually don't often chip that way but, if I slow down - like with a chip I can just force my left wrist however I want . .I can do it.  

I've made some progress on this - I've got the flat left wrist now.  It takes a lot of concentration for me to do it so I'm still working on it a lot.  What it feels like to me is "letting go" of my wrists through impact.  If my wrist "force" (ie - the effort I'm using to hold them in place) is maybe a 5 out of 10 on the backswing . .I try to drop it to 0 as soon as I track into the downswing. 

Then I also need the "pivot move" - which is, to me, a feeling of rolling my hips into impact and not sliding them.  I can't quite do both of those moves at the same time yet.  Sometimes, for sure . .but a lot of times I mess up one or the other. 

Got a lesson tomorrow.  PLUS I re-oriented my practice area to get a full front-on view . .PLUS I'm signing up for evolvr . .so pretty soon I'll know how on track I am or not . . .feels like I'm pretty on track to me. 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 4/20/2016 at 6:17 PM, senorchipotle said:

i'm a low single digit cap and am an OG on this board, of course I have a point! lol. Golf can become very technical in its analysis; but physically, if you can get a few moves down in proper sequence it's really not that complicated. It's just hard.

 

And of course the right hand should be aware of lag and loading... it's the body part that's doing all the work!

Don't get sore at me. I was pretty new on these boards when I made that observation, which wound up supporting you, BTW. Also, what is an OG? Original Golfer?  I'm on other boards where Mods and such are amply marked. There are some things here that are different than other boards I've been on. Such as reputation, which I see you have plenty of! One of the problems with the computer age is just learning the jargon!

[dchoye]

The explanation from Buckeye is similar to some of the bombers who discuss "late flip " and snapping their hands when the club gets stuck behind them  and this is different "flip" from higher handicapper who flip much earlier usually showing cup left wrist at impact 

Edited April 25, 2016 by dchoye

[Rainmaker]

The explanation from Buckeye really helped me, actually . .to reduce the confusion.  I think of what I'm doing as casting/throwing away lag/early release.   That has made it a lot easier to track down the right information. 

I made tons of progress - got my legs quiet.  Got my left wrist flat at impact (sometimes) . .but my hands are still way behind at impact.  I got them from my behind my right thigh to the middle of my legs at impact - but I haven't been able to get them any more forward.

Lesson today - got verification that, yes indeed, legs are not the issue anymore.  Neither is it my weight transfer or my pivot.  Not that they're perfect or anything but my big problem now is downswing path/transition/sequencing. 

I need to *increase* the lag when I start my downswing.  The way I was going, that was never, ever, ever going to happen.  Got a new drill that, of course, I can't do.  But I have an understanding of what needs to happen.  Estimate - 4 weeks of grueling/semi-obsessive effort.   

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Rainmaker

[mdg74]

I just want to share with you a drill that helped me with my flipping. I set up to a ball with a short cue stick, with the handle end against my left side (I'm sure an alignment rod will work well), then I swing without letting the "handle" end of the stick hit me in the side. I'm not a great golfer so take this for what it's worth- but it did help me a lot.

 

[senorchipotle]

On April 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

Don't get sore at me. I was pretty new on these boards when I made that observation, which wound up supporting you, BTW. Also, what is an OG? Original Golfer?  I'm on other boards where Mods and such are amply marked. There are some things here that are different than other boards I've been on. Such as reputation, which I see you have plenty of! One of the problems with the computer age is just learning the jargon!

Wasn't sore... Just joking mostly, hence the "lol." i began posting here early on when TST was up and coming. I took a long hiatus from golf and the boards, and was a forum leader before that. 

[Rainmaker]

On 4/25/2016 at 0:02 PM, Rainmaker said:

The explanation from Buckeye really helped me, actually . .to reduce the confusion.  I think of what I'm doing as casting/throwing away lag/early release.   That has made it a lot easier to track down the right information. 

I made tons of progress - got my legs quiet.  Got my left wrist flat at impact (sometimes) . .but my hands are still way behind at impact.  I got them from my behind my right thigh to the middle of my legs at impact - but I haven't been able to get them any more forward.

Lesson today - got verification that, yes indeed, legs are not the issue anymore.  Neither is it my weight transfer or my pivot.  Not that they're perfect or anything but my big problem now is downswing path/transition/sequencing. 

I need to *increase* the lag when I start my downswing.  The way I was going, that was never, ever, ever going to happen.  Got a new drill that, of course, I can't do.  But I have an understanding of what needs to happen.  Estimate - 4 weeks of grueling/semi-obsessive effort.   

 

 

It wasn't actually that bad, lol.  Although, much like the game, Othello, it may take a lifetime to master. 

So - 5 weeks after my initial post, when I "realized" how bad I was casting it . .I am no longer casting it.  I *am* still casting by strictest definition - but I'm keeping enough lag, more than the bare minimum, to hit the ball with forward shaft lean and a flat left wrist.

So - what it was . . .was that I was hitting at the ball.  I have always done that and realized I did but could never find a way to stop.  I tried everything, maybe 1.5 years ago, and then just stopped trying.  After tons and tons of practice and introspection . .I finally said to myself "Dude - just move it way forward . .like 'this'" . .and that was that, lol.   

When my swing is "aimed at the right place" - casting, the bad, bad kind, pretty much goes away by itself.   This is, for sure, the hardest change I've made in my swing.  But I feel like I'm finally not crazy anymore, lol.  I won't have to come into every lesson with a half dozen stupid questions because things just don't compute.