Jordan Spieth's Slow Play

[Golfingdad]

27 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

Nothing like that at all. I simply don't enjoy standing around and have learned that the quality of one's shots will not increase by agonizing over them any longer.

I'm going to disagree on this one a hair.  This thread came about because of Saturday's round.  Saturday is when they took 4:30 to play their 18 holes and had fallen quite a ways behind the previous group.  (Whereas yesterday, if I'm not mistaken, they kept pace for the most part)  We have another thread from Saturday's round about a ball that got blown off of a green from a resting position.  That is not an everyday occurrence.

Now, I'm not going to actually defend the slowness of any particular player, but I do think that while contending in a major championship, it's a little different than when we play.  Raise your hand if you've ever pulled a club, got ready to hit, then thought "hmm, the wind just kicked up, I may have the wrong club here" but then just hit anyway because you don't care THAT much and realized immediately afterwards that you should've swapped clubs or simply waited a second for the wind to change?

 

9 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Maybe it's gotten worse since he's become a top player and is contending in Majors routinely. Maybe we are viewing it more now that he's the main guy for golf at the Majors, so he gets more air time.

Considering that the show finished around it's normal time, and that there was also a thread last week saying the same things about Day, I would agree here.  In general, a lot of these guys are slow and we're just going to complain about the ones on TV the most.

[tdiii]

Just now, Golfingdad said:

I'm going to disagree on this one a hair.  This thread came about because of Saturday's round.  Saturday is when they took 4:30 to play their 18 holes and had fallen quite a ways behind the previous group.  (Whereas yesterday, if I'm not mistaken, they kept pace for the most part)  We have another thread from Saturday's round about a ball that got blown off of a green from a resting position.  That is not an everyday occurrence.

Now, I'm not going to actually defend the slowness of any particular player, but I do think that while contending in a major championship, it's a little different than when we play.  Raise your hand if you've ever pulled a club, got ready to hit, then thought "hmm, the wind just kicked up, I may have the wrong club here" but then just hit anyway because you don't care THAT much and realized immediately afterwards that you should've swapped clubs or simply waited a second for the wind to change?

 

Considering that the show finished around it's normal time, and that there was also a thread last week saying the same things about Day, I would agree here.  In general, a lot of these guys are slow and we're just going to complain about the ones on TV the most.

That's just not accurate.  They had fallen an entire hole behind professional rain delay, Bernhard Langer, and the telecast went 30 minutes over.  Again. 

[Golfingdad]

1 minute ago, tdiii said:

That's just not accurate.  They had fallen an entire hole behind professional rain delay, Bernhard Langer, and the telecast went 30 minutes over.  Again. 

Yesterday?  I don't believe so.  Don't forget that they don't exactly stack the tee times like at our local munis.  They start nearly a full hole behind the previous group to begin with.  So if they're putting on 17 while the group ahead is putting on 18, then they haven't fallen a hole behind.

[Gunther]

5 minutes ago, tdiii said:

That's just not accurate.  They had fallen an entire hole behind professional rain delay, Bernhard Langer, and the telecast went 30 minutes over.  Again. 

Keep in mind Smylie was blowing up through the round. Jordan waited on him a lot and I saw Jordan analyzing putts while Smylie was working through his issues.  

4:30 is not ideal but it's far from abnormal or even unaccetptable.  I don't like the back-offs either, it's one of the reasons I can't stand Furyk.  But because we're getting coverage throughout his entire preshot routine, unlike most others, it appears longer than it is.

Couple examples anecdotally because I only know what Ive read or been told.  Snedeker:  he's celebrated as a fast golfer because of what we see on camera, he gets over the shot or putt and pops it.  I've heard he's notoriously slow.  Keegan Bradley, often derided as a slow player because of his twitches and other idiosyncrasies.  I've heard he's actually a very quick player.  So, the coverage can provide false perceptions.

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Yesterday?  I don't believe so.  Don't forget that they don't exactly stack the tee times like at our local munis.  They start nearly a full hole behind the previous group to begin with.  So if they're putting on 17 while the group ahead is putting on 18, then they haven't fallen a hole behind.

Yes, yesterday, Sunday, April 10. They were near 11 green (having not putted out yet) and 12 and 13 tee were completely empty.

[boogielicious]

49 minutes ago, JimF27 said:

I get it. You're a fast player and you take a lot of pride in how fast you can play. Good for you. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't judge people until we've stood in their shoes. I don't know that anyone here has ever played in a major championship let alone led one.  Until you've been in that position, you don't know how you'd respond.

I've played some competitive golf at a fairly high level and I can tell you that it's nothing like playing a $5.00 Nassau with your friends are your club. When you add in the fact that your playing one of the most difficult golf courses in the world with the most difficult greens in the world under extremely stressful conditions everything become more difficult exponentially. 

If people watching this kind of golf take it as a message to allow them to play slowly, they are wrong. It's a very, very different game than what the rest of us play. 

 

I think that is the issue. The PGA and USGA have spent considerable effort trying to get the Pros and amateurs to play golf faster. We all complain about slow play. An not to really single out Jordan, the Pro fields in general play a lot slower than we are allowed to. They are playing harder courses yes. But they also take fewer shots. Mathematically they are taking a lot longer per shot that we are recommended to take. That is all I am saying. Many examples of the cause have been discussed above.

[newtogolf]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yes, yesterday, Sunday, April 10. They were near 11 green (having not putted out yet) and 12 and 13 tee were completely empty.

I'll take your word for it because I never heard anyone mention they were 2 holes behind during the broadcast.  If that is the case you have to blame Smylie at least half as much as Spieth but I don't see any outrage at Kaufman.  

[14ledo81]

26 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I'm going to disagree on this one a hair.  This thread came about because of Saturday's round.  Saturday is when they took 4:30 to play their 18 holes and had fallen quite a ways behind the previous group.  (Whereas yesterday, if I'm not mistaken, they kept pace for the most part)  We have another thread from Saturday's round about a ball that got blown off of a green from a resting position.  That is not an everyday occurrence.

Now, I'm not going to actually defend the slowness of any particular player, but I do think that while contending in a major championship, it's a little different than when we play.  Raise your hand if you've ever pulled a club, got ready to hit, then thought "hmm, the wind just kicked up, I may have the wrong club here" but then just hit anyway because you don't care THAT much and realized immediately afterwards that you should've swapped clubs or simply waited a second for the wind to change?

 

Considering that the show finished around it's normal time, and that there was also a thread last week saying the same things about Day, I would agree here.  In general, a lot of these guys are slow and we're just going to complain about the ones on TV the most.

 

Raising hand....  I actually have this happen quite often.

[pumaAttack]

Just now, newtogolf said:

I'll take your word for it because I never heard anyone mention they were 2 holes behind during the broadcast.  If that is the case you have to blame Smylie at least half as much as Spieth but I don't see any outrage at Kaufman.  

Huh...

You want to blame a guy for playing a poor round?  

Jordan takes a long time to commit and goes back and forth.  That is not the same as playing more shots...

[phillyk]

My biggest issue is around the greens.  I saw multiple times where players weren't bothering to start looking at their line until after the other player hit their putt.  Then they spend another couple minutes lining up the putt. 

I don't really agree too much with the whole "you don't know what it's like to play in such a major tournament" argument.  These guys do this for a living.  They've played in many tournaments with millions on the line.  Reading a putt or the wind is nothing new.  Why is it taking so long for something that is practically automatic for them?  They already know the club they intend to hit before they get to the ball.  If they change because of wind or whatever, it's not a crazy switch, it's still automatic.

4 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I think that is the issue. The PGA and USGA have spent considerable effort trying to get the Pros and amateurs to play golf faster. We all complain about slow play. An not to really single out Jordan, the Pro fields in general play a lot slower than we are allowed to. They are playing harder courses yes. But they also take fewer shots. Mathematically they are taking a lot longer per shot that we are recommended to take. That is all I am saying. Many examples of the cause have been discussed above.

This is especially true in the US Open qualifiers.  They watch the pace like hawks and make it known right away if you're a few minutes behind.

[newtogolf]

3 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

Huh...

You want to blame a guy for playing a poor round?  

Jordan takes a long time to commit and goes back and forth.  That is not the same as playing more shots...

Oh so now we're back to poorer golfers should take longer to play a round than good golfers?  In any other tournament you'd never see all the indecision you saw this past week.  Seems like some of you are just looking for reasons to hate Spieth.  Let's not pretend Spieth is the only slow golfer on the tour.  

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I'll take your word for it because I never heard anyone mention they were 2 holes behind during the broadcast.  If that is the case you have to blame Smylie at least half as much as Spieth but I don't see any outrage at Kaufman.  

You have no real proof that the few extra shots (seriously, it's not like the guy didn't break 90) accounted for the time.

But yes, as a twosome, they were behind.

The thing is, Jordan is known to be slow, and we had evidence to support that he was slow at Augusta, too. Maybe Smylie is too, but he doesn't have that reputation.

[pumaAttack]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

Oh so now we're back to poorer golfers should take longer to play a round than good golfers?  In any other tournament you'd never see all the indecision you saw this past week.  Seems like some of you are just looking for reasons to hate Spieth.  Let's not pretend Spieth is the only slow golfer on the tour.  

No...

I am saying it will take a person longer to play a round of 81 than a round of 73...  That is just basic math.

Spieth has issues committing.  He backs off the ball a lot.  He reads greens over and over.  

That is not the same as playing more shots.

[ElWagonne]

Next generation will try to emulate the new 'Big 4'.  Problem is, 2 of the 4 are turtles on the course, which does not bode well for newbies.  I did find it funny about Sir Faldo, who was no Usain Bolt on the course, telling Speith to get on with it.  Guess it takes one to know one lol.

[tdiii]

2 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

No...

I am saying it will take a person longer to play a round of 81 than a round of 73...  That is just basic math.

Not true.  I can shoot 95 quicker than Langer and Speith can shoot 66. 

[pumaAttack]

Just now, tdiii said:

Not true.  I can shoot 95 quicker than Langer and Speith can shoot 66. 

I am talking about the time to hit each shot, for a professional.  I could play 18 in 2 hours if I wanted to.  

The point was that Jordan takes a long time, much longer than those 8 additional strokes that Kaufman had, which Newtogolf wanted to half the blame for.

[Golfingdad]

25 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yes, yesterday, Sunday, April 10. They were near 11 green (having not putted out yet) and 12 and 13 tee were completely empty.

 

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

But yes, as a twosome, they were behind.

What about at the end?  I thought I remembered that they were either on or off the 17 green before Matsuyama and Langer putted out on 18.  Does falling two holes behind 7 holes prior really matter if you're able to catch back up before the end?

(For events that I've played in, the answer to that question is no.  You either finish within 13/14 minutes of the group ahead of you or you finish within the time par listed on the card (if you're a lead group or the groups in front of you are blazing fast))

[boogielicious]

11 minutes ago, ElWagonne said:

Next generation will try to emulate the new 'Big 4'.  Problem is, 2 of the 4 are turtles on the course, which does not bode well for newbies.  I did find it funny about Sir Faldo, who was no Usain Bolt on the course, telling Speith to get on with it.  Guess it takes one to know one lol.

That's it! We get Bolt to go to event and run along side these guys saying, "Hurry up Slow Pokes!"