Mirror work - how?

[b101]

First off, apologies if there's already a thread on this - searching 'mirror work' brought up forty odd pages...

So this is a fairly simple question - how exactly do you go about doing mirror work? When do you check particular things, at what speeds etc. - particularly for the downswing? I'm trying not to make it too specific for me, but I'm running into two particular problems. One is the 'leap' between work in a mirror on the downswing and actual practice downswings. For example, I'll practice the move two or three times slowly, then try to make a practice downswing at a slow tempo and I'm just not sure when to stop and check. If I'm working to a position where my arm is parallel to the ground, I could just go to there, but if I do that, it doesn't seem to transfer through to the 'full' downswing as there's a bit of a disconnect. If I try to go the full way through, how do you check you're hitting the position that you think you are?

The second problem I'm finding is that I've always found Key 1 - Steady Head a real challenge. If I'm moving my head to check various positions in a mirror, is that making things worse with this or ingraining that feeling somewhat? I guess what I'm asking is "Is there actually a good way of checking a steady head in the mirror?"

I assume the obvious answer is that I should be recording myself to check progress and I totally get that, but I'm hoping to use the mirror to speed up the process so that I can get instant feedback. Many thanks to anyone that can help or has experience with this.

Thanks,
Ben

[Lihu]

It's limited compared to a camera, but using a mirror provides instant feedback. When making a move you can decide if immediately to make a change in position.

Sometimes I use it in conjunction with a web cam, then replay as often as needed. Unfortunately, I don't use these setups every practice. Still setting up that system with motion capture that can be used daily for me and my kids.

[Ernest Jones]

19 minutes ago, b101 said:

First off, apologies if there's already a thread on this - searching 'mirror work' brought up forty odd pages...

So this is a fairly simple question - how exactly do you go about doing mirror work? When do you check particular things, at what speeds etc. - particularly for the downswing? I'm trying not to make it too specific for me, but I'm running into two particular problems. One is the 'leap' between work in a mirror on the downswing and actual practice downswings. For example, I'll practice the move two or three times slowly, then try to make a practice downswing at a slow tempo and I'm just not sure when to stop and check. If I'm working to a position where my arm is parallel to the ground, I could just go to there, but if I do that, it doesn't seem to transfer through to the 'full' downswing as there's a bit of a disconnect. If I try to go the full way through, how do you check you're hitting the position that you think you are?

The second problem I'm finding is that I've always found Key 1 - Steady Head a real challenge. If I'm moving my head to check various positions in a mirror, is that making things worse with this or ingraining that feeling somewhat? I guess what I'm asking is "Is there actually a good way of checking a steady head in the mirror?"

I assume the obvious answer is that I should be recording myself to check progress and I totally get that, but I'm hoping to use the mirror to speed up the process so that I can get instant feedback. Many thanks to anyone that can help or has experience with this.

Thanks,
Ben

1

Mirror work is best suited to mapping. Mapping is making reeeaaalllly sloooooow motions and holding at checkpoints so you can check in the mirror that you are actually in a decent position. From there you work on identifying what it feels like to be in the correct positions and what it feels like moving slowly through them. You use those feels to guide the changes you are trying to make in the full swing. Once you are working with full swings at varying speeds you'll need to move to a camera.

Mirror work is fine for steady head work in the FO view. You should only need to raise your eyes a bit to check. You might need to lift your chin a tiny bit, but you should be able to do that without moving your head too much.

I like to use an iPad with the front facing camera. That gives you a mirror and video at the same time. 

[nevets88]

I would use painter's tape/masking tape running perpendicular to the ground to mark the left and right side extremities of your head, basically the equals sign turned 90 degrees, pause at the top and see where you are relative to the tape. This is not my idea, I saw someone else use tape to map their swing plane, using tape in other ways seems obvious after seeing that demonstration. I'd also mark the top of your head, sometimes trying to keep the head still might make it go up.

I like having a mirror in front of me and behind me simultaneously, seeing both views at once. It lets you see what the dtl view will look like when you have a change to the fo view, vice versa.

Jim Waldron has an audio file, somewhere around 2 hours about practicing with a mirror. I've been meaning to buy it, but too busy. Will write something about it when I eventually get time to listen to it. One of his suggestions is that it is better done with no distractions - no tv, etc... Makes sense.

[b101]

Brilliant - thank you all for such quick and good advice. Long story short, I guess, is that the camera is what I really need for the downswing and there's no shortcut for that part. I'll keep doing the slow-motion stuff and checking the backswing in the mirror, but use the range time to work on the downswing stuff with the camera there. Again, many thanks.

[Ernest Jones]

48 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

 

I like having a mirror in front of me and behind me simultaneously, seeing both views at once. It lets you see what the dtl view will look like when you have a change to the fo view, vice versa.

 

1

A little OT, but I like setting up 2 iPads. Then I can sync up the swings on Analyzr and see DTL and FO of the same swing simultaneously. #FullOnSwingGeek

[b101]

3 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

A little OT, but I like setting up 2 iPads. Then I can sync up the swings on Analyzr and see DTL and FO of the same swing simultaneously. #FullOnSwingGeek

Don't even have one 

[Ernest Jones]

5 minutes ago, b101 said:

Don't even have one 

Cameras, phones, whatever...

The nice thing about the iPad, as I mentioned before, is that you get a mirror (albeit a small one) and video at the same time.

[nevets88]

You could also jury rig a laser pointer so that if your head moves too much laterally, red dot is gone.

[b101]

5 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

Cameras, phones, whatever...

The nice thing about the iPad, as I mentioned before, is that you get a mirror (albeit a small one) and video at the same time.

Sadly, I have a very cheap phone which I wouldn't trust to take any sort of decent video. The camera is good though and gets a lot of use! Great idea though, should I get an iPad

Just now, nevets88 said:

You could also jury rig a laser pointer so that if your head moves too much laterally, red dot is gone.

Another phenomenal idea...

[nevets88]

I find to do feel ain't real experimenting, where you try different feels to see how it looks on camera, you don't need anything fancy. Once things speed up, yeah, you need the higher frame rate, but trying out things like steepening your backswing, trying moves to keep your head more still, mostly any camera will do.

[Ernest Jones]

4 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I find to do feel ain't real experimenting, where you try different feels to see how it looks on camera, you don't need anything fancy. Once things speed up, yeah, you need the higher frame rate, but trying out things like steepening your backswing, trying moves to keep your head more still, mostly any camera will do.

Agreed. I have the luxury of several cameras that will record in high speed but I've also done tons of stuff with my previous phone that didn't do high speed and it was fine for what I needed. Just run it through movie maker or something so you can slow it down. I think you can slow it down through YouTube editing as well but not sure. 

Things like steady head, weight forward and path can be evaluated without ultra clear frame by frame resolution. 

[billchao]

6 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

Mirror work is best suited to mapping. Mapping is making reeeaaalllly sloooooow motions and holding at checkpoints so you can check in the mirror that you are actually in a decent position. From there you work on identifying what it feels like to be in the correct positions and what it feels like moving slowly through them. You use those feels to guide the changes you are trying to make in the full swing. Once you are working with full swings at varying speeds you'll need to move to a camera.

Most definitely this. It's ok to exaggerate, too. Once you try to hit a ball, you're not going to change as dramatically as you can in front of a mirror.

[boogielicious]

Sorry I came late to this thread. To build on what @Ernest Jones said about mapping, I usually do the following when I do my mirror work. My gym has mirrors on two adjacent walls, so I can see my front and DTL view.

1. Loosen up first. This is a must for me because I'm 56 and need a bit of time to get warmed up.
2. I start with set up and the backswing. I do slow backswings focusing on a centered hip turn.
   1. This was one of my priority pieces and I also review each one.
   2. In the mirror, my right hip should move up and back. 
   3. I do 5 or 6 of these.
3. Next I go up to A4, then down to A5. 5 or 6 times.
   1. I have a tendency for the shaft to steepen from 4 to 5, so I go to five and exaggerate a flattening shaft. 
   2. I look back into the mirror to verify the flat shaft and also that my right elbow is ahead of my shirt seam.
   3. This will put my left arm further out, which helps eliminate the OTT move.
   4. I am also working on getting my hips to rotate more as I go from A4 to 6.
4. Next I go up to A4, then to A6, same idea. Focus on the my new priority piece of turning hips faster.
5. Next same as for, then finish to A8. I have a mat and use a rubber tee to swing at to simulate hitting.
6. Lastly, I will do 5 or 6 full swings at maybe 50% to get the feel down.

I replicate this at the range too. Using the mirror helps me know that what I am feeling is correct. I film my swing at the range and check it too. When I map at the range, I will swing at a ball too. 

FWIW, you don't need a club to practice this either. When I go to the Y on weekends, I use a bar they have for one of the exercise machines in lieu of a club. 

[Mr. Desmond]

I recently purchased the tathatagolf.com program as I've tried using ground forces for over a year to no avail.  This 60 day program is into ground forces.

The program maps 10 basic moves and repeat them every day (a 60 day program). I map them in front of a mirror on a daily basis to make certain I am performing the moves as the models do in the video.

Interesting series and am only on day 4 -- gets you into feeling pressure and not releasing the energy until the swing is complete.

It does not seem to interfere with my lessons -- in fact, they seem to follow a lot of 5SK regarding head movement, legs bowed at setup. I imagine it will differ in some ways, too. I need to start a thread on it when I get into it on the course/range.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mr. Desmond

[Rainmaker]

For me - the mirror is mostly for checking things.  I will get in front of the mirror and make extremely slow-motion swings and check myself.  I've been able to use the mirror to identify problems - but, so far, not to fix them.