Stubborn Steepness

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, RandallT said:

You can change your swing that fast????

No.

But you knew that…

[Jack Watson]

It's impossible to say from one still if it's a functional movement or not most times.

Its like everything.  Everyone has to make decisions about how to move forward.  People use their bodies in the way they choose.

Pretty much all golfers have the same goal of improving their ballstriking.  For you clearly you made the right decision.

 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Not really, but I get what you mean.

For a lot of people, they currently swing over the plane. The face is shut, they slow their body's rotation to allow themselves the time to kind of drop the clubhead a little bit, and they fight pulls and cuts.

So for most people, "shallowing" is simply a matter of actually swinging on plane, not over it and left of it.

Oh man! Does my one buddy love doing this! He tells me that he "feels" that he initiates his downswing with his shoulders. Also, he likes to tee his Driver low. I tell him he might be really feeling what he does because it causes him to chop down on the ball from outside in and fade it.

Also, he does the opposite of what many golfers do. They will make long, flowing practice swings and then chop the backswing off short when actually striking the ball. He makes a beautiful practice swing and then reaches back for a little extra when actually playing the shot. This causes him to lay the club off. When he spins his shoulders from the top, he is sunk!

Well, he gives me a call last week telling me about 9 holes he played with his Dad. He consciously tried to shorten his backswing, and wound up nailing everything pretty much on the button! Shot a 39, his best 9 of the year. Struck many shots solidly with better accuracy and distance.

I felt like saying "What have I been telling you for 2 years", but I relented. Some of the lessons you learn on your own are more valuable. 

[RandallT]

Another good one.

Quick update on my situation, for those interested: neck injury has blocked a lot of my progress on this, but I've been doing some motions recently as my physical therapy gets me back to a point where I think I'll be able to get full range of motion in my neck and shoulders.

As I look forward to the spring to get going on this, the main takeaway for me when I try to sum up this thread is to avoid yanking the arms and hands down at the top of the downswing. Each of us may have different keys in avoiding that, but for me, I can say that the process has led to a very different mental map of how a swing works. I'm not saying it is a ground-up total rebuild of my swing, but it has been a discovery in that I've always thought about the downswing "incorrectly."

[iacas]

Here's what not to do, really:

In small doses, maybe… but still… meh.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Here's what not to do, really:

In small doses, maybe… but still… meh.

I get the idea is for them to learn the feeling of the weight of the clubhead, but wouldn't that just cause people to use their arms to fight the extra weight so they end up tipping the club more when it's gone?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

I get the idea is for them to learn the feeling of the weight of the clubhead, but wouldn't that just cause people to use their arms to fight the extra weight so they end up tipping the club more when it's gone?

Probably.

I'm generally not a fan of whatever you'd call that classification of training aids. The aids that, whether you do anything with your muscles or not, they make the motion for you.

---

That's not to say I've not put weights on the club (usually near the 14" mark, so you can still swing them a little bit, as the swingweight stays about the same) so that the player is more aware of where the weight is. That can be helpful to some people now and then.

But that's just so they can feel where the shaft is.

[zipazoid]

Had an "accidental discovery" at the range a couple of months back re steepness.

First I had the thought that I was too steep - my divots were too deep, and, being two months shy of 60, it hurt lol. So I thought, 'How do I shallow out my swing?' The conclusion I came up with was to come into the ball more from the inside - I just assumed that if the club is coming in from the inside then it's difficult to be steep.

So I made a conscious effort to take it back flatter & keep it there - don't 'over the top' it at all - flat to inside was my thought.

Well, it certainly worked, and what do you know - I started hitting a high draw! A HIGH draw. Not one of those low snipers. So over the past few months I've really been trying to ingrain that move. I find it easier to do with the shorter clubs as opposed to the longer ones, but the point is, by trying to fix one thing I fixed something else as well.

Geeked.

[boogielicious]

5 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

Had an "accidental discovery" at the range a couple of months back re steepness.

First I had the thought that I was too steep - my divots were too deep, and, being two months shy of 60, it hurt lol. So I thought, 'How do I shallow out my swing?' The conclusion I came up with was to come into the ball more from the inside - I just assumed that if the club is coming in from the inside then it's difficult to be steep.

So I made a conscious effort to take it back flatter & keep it there - don't 'over the top' it at all - flat to inside was my thought.

Well, it certainly worked, and what do you know - I started hitting a high draw! A HIGH draw. Not one of those low snipers. So over the past few months I've really been trying to ingrain that move. I find it easier to do with the shorter clubs as opposed to the longer ones, but the point is, by trying to fix one thing I fixed something else as well.

Geeked.

I am finding the same thing. I've been working on my alignments after a great lesson with Erik. Opening the face more at set up and swinging out launches the ball higher. When done right, a nice push draw.

[zipazoid]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I am finding the same thing. I've been working on my alignments after a great lesson with Erik. Opening the face more at set up and swinging out launches the ball higher. When done right, a nice push draw.

I'll have to experiment with opening the face - I imagine that's where the "push" in the "push draw" will come from. But as it is, with the inside path, the ball is starting out to the left of the target & drawing back (I'm a lefty). 

[boogielicious]

2 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

I'll have to experiment with opening the face - I imagine that's where the "push" in the "push draw" will come from. But as it is, with the inside path, the ball is starting out to the left of the target & drawing back (I'm a lefty). 

Well that's your problem! 

My feet are aligned left side of the fairway and my club head is right side. The ball pushes and draws slightly back into the fairway when I do it right. I was struggling with a hook for a long time and this is the first thing that has really helped. I mistakenly thought that the ball should end up where my feet are aligned, but that is not how it works. 

I'm still a little steep at A6, but now I'm feeling more confident about how to align.

[zipazoid]

5 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Well that's your problem! 

My feet are aligned left side of the fairway and my club head is right side. The ball pushes and draws slightly back into the fairway when I do it right. I was struggling with a hook for a long time and this is the first thing that has really helped. I mistakenly thought that the ball should end up where my feet are aligned, but that is not how it works. 

I'm still a little steep at A6, but now I'm feeling more confident about how to align.

I'm picturing Tom Lehman as you wrote this. His feet are left of the target, ball starts right, draws to the middle. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by zipazoid

[billchao]

15 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I mistakenly thought that the ball should end up where my feet are aligned, but that is not how it works. 

You have no idea how many years I spent working on my swing with a similar mentality, thinking I needed to line my body up with my target and trying and largely failing to get the ball to go there.

[boogielicious]

5 hours ago, billchao said:

You have no idea how many years I spent working on my swing with a similar mentality, thinking I needed to line my body up with my target and trying and largely failing to get the ball to go there.

Why didn’t you tell me in Connecticut!!😜

[Hugh Jars]

Hi all,

I have a question - can shortening your swing help shallow it out?

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Hugh Jars said:

Hi all,

I have a question - can shortening your swing help shallow it out?

Depends on too many things.

[Hugh Jars]

I have read many instruction articles, watched many instructional videos with what seems to be hundreds of different methods to shallow a swing. But Im still yet to come across someone who has successfully done it. Its all "a work in progress".

There is so many information out there that I don't know what to believe, what to listen to, what concepts I should stick to. There are so many gimmicky ideas and quick fixes, the Me and My Golf guys lead the way with this. All these quick fixes and drills never talk about how their gimmicks transfer into a full swing long term. Like how many reps must be done, how should their drills be progressed into a full swing, how to maintain their supposed fixes.

So Im wondering if there is anyone out there who can share their training methods on how they managed to shallow their swing out.

Ive managed to improve mine steep swing somewhat by fixing my set-up - primarily standing further from the ball, giving myself more room and not cramping myself up so much. And focussing on being as relaxed as possible throughout the whole swing.

Still, Im miles away from having a downswing that is on plane.

April 2018:

A couple of weeks ago:

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Hugh Jars

[Hugh Jars]

Something Ive realized over the last couple of days is there is something wrong with my wrist hinge. Or grip.