Relief From a Drop Zone

[bkuehn1952]

When a drop zone is created, if a player's ball unintentionally ends up in the "drop zone", is he allowed relief in the same manner as GUR?  Drop zones funnel a fair number of players into a limited area.  It is not unusual to have quite a few unrepaired divot holes and generally chopped up turf concentrated within a small circle or area.  Today a player in our group hit his shot and when we arrived, his ball was within a drop zone circle.  Fortunately for him is was not in a divot hole.  Still it got me thinking that if a drop zone is created near where other players may end up, it might be reasonable to consider the drop zone as GUR except when a player is actually availing themselves of the option to use the drop zone.

I could find no mention of this in the Appendix where drop zones are discussed.  Anyone know of a prior Decision or a Rule?  Thoughts as to whether to do anything and if so , how?

[Rulesman]

It simply needs the committee to make it GUR by Local Rule.

It is not uncommon for clubs/courses to move DZs around in order to help overcome this problem.

I believe that in parts of Asia DZs are often mats and the ball may be placed.

 

[Missouri Swede]

40 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

It simply needs the committee to make it GUR by Local Rule.

I'm confused. How can a drop zone be GUR? How then would you take a drop into it?

 

[Martyn W]

44 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

It simply needs the committee to make it GUR by Local Rule.

It is not uncommon for clubs/courses to move DZs around in order to help overcome this problem.

I believe that in parts of Asia DZs are often mats and the ball may be placed.

 

Hmmm not sure about that. If the DZ is GUR, could a player using the DZ take relief after the drop and drop again outside the DZ?

[Rulesman]

Oops. Didn't think it through.

[MacDutch]

Why would they? If you hit your ball on a teebox, you also play it as it lies. Could be a lot of divots there too. Dropping zones and teeboxes are not the place you are aiming at during a round. You hit a bad shot, you are lucky to find flat surface.

[bkuehn1952]

22 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

Why would they? If you hit your ball on a teebox, you also play it as it lies. Could be a lot of divots there too. Dropping zones and teeboxes are not the place you are aiming at during a round. You hit a bad shot, you are lucky to find flat surface.

Reasonable point.  I would say that most tee boxes are quite a bit larger than the average drop zone so the concentration of play is not as high.  Drop zones can occasionally be located quite close or in places where normal play may occur.  Tee boxes typically are located well away from fairways.

In the example I just witnessed, the drop zone was one pace from the fairway and in a location where a decent drive would conceivably land and which one actually did.  The player was not in some other hole's rough, he was one pace from his fairway.

One solution, of course, is to locate drop zones so remotely that most shots won't approach the zone.  But that could possibly make the drop zone overly punitive.  I think @Rulesman idea, with a bit of a change, has merit.

"Drop zones will be considered GUR except when a player is using the drop zone as an additional option under Rule 24-2b or Rule 24-3 (Immovable Obstruction), Rule 25-1b or 25-1c (Abnormal Ground Conditions), 25-3 (Wrong Putting Green), Rule 26-1 (Water Hazards and Lateral Water Hazards) or Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable)."

[iacas]

42 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Reasonable point.  I would say that most tee boxes are quite a bit larger than the average drop zone so the concentration of play is not as high.  Drop zones can occasionally be located quite close or in places where normal play may occur.  Tee boxes typically are located well away from fairways.

In the example I just witnessed, the drop zone was one pace from the fairway and in a location where a decent drive would conceivably land and which one actually did.  The player was not in some other hole's rough, he was one pace from his fairway.

Can you give me an example of a time when a drop zone would be both heavily utilized and reasonably close to an expected high-traffic-through-normal-play location?

Most drop zones - and proper drop zones are few and far between themselves - are IMO away from the normal lines of play. If there's a water hazard beside a fairway, play it as a water hazard or a lateral, and don't have a drop zone.

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Can you give me an example of a time when a drop zone would be both heavily utilized and reasonably close to an expected high-traffic-through-normal-play location?

Most drop zones - and proper drop zones are few and far between themselves - are IMO away from the normal lines of play. If there's a water hazard beside a fairway, play it as a water hazard or a lateral, and don't have a drop zone.

Yup.

I guess it's possible, but I can't think of ever seeing a drop zone other than on a par-3.  

[Asheville]

From USGA's How to Conduct a Competition:

6. Dropping Zones Under Appendix I of the Rules of Golf, a Committee has authority to establish special areas on which balls may or must be dropped when it is not feasible or practicable to proceed exactly in conformity with:

Rule 24-2b (Immovable Obstructions),

Rule 24-3 (Ball in Obstruction Not Found),

Rule 25-1b or 25-1c (Abnormal Ground Conditions),

Rule 25-3 (Wrong Putting Green),

Rule 26-1 (Water Hazards and Lateral Water Hazards),

Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable), or

Rule 33-8 (Local Rules).

The USGA frequently uses Dropping Zones in its championships, particularly in the case of water hazards and for Temporary Immovable Obstructions such as grandstands and television towers.

They may be established in a variety of locations, not just near water hazards. Some courses need none, others need many.

 

 

[Golfingdad]

19 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

When a drop zone is created, if a player's ball unintentionally ends up in the "drop zone", is he allowed relief in the same manner as GUR?  Drop zones funnel a fair number of players into a limited area.  It is not unusual to have quite a few unrepaired divot holes and generally chopped up turf concentrated within a small circle or area.  Today a player in our group hit his shot and when we arrived, his ball was within a drop zone circle.  Fortunately for him is was not in a divot hole.  Still it got me thinking that if a drop zone is created near where other players may end up, it might be reasonable to consider the drop zone as GUR except when a player is actually availing themselves of the option to use the drop zone.

I could find no mention of this in the Appendix where drop zones are discussed.  Anyone know of a prior Decision or a Rule?  Thoughts as to whether to do anything and if so , how?

This is funny, because in my tournament yesterday, I came across a drop zone (actually a few) that were in a position to make me wonder the exact same thing.

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Can you give me an example of a time when a drop zone would be both heavily utilized and reasonably close to an expected high-traffic-through-normal-play location?

Most drop zones - and proper drop zones are few and far between themselves - are IMO away from the normal lines of play. If there's a water hazard beside a fairway, play it as a water hazard or a lateral, and don't have a drop zone.

I can, yes.   Here is my pin sheet/info sheet from yesterday; see note #4:

And here is a picture of the eighth hole.  The red rectangle I sketched in is roughly where the roped off ground under repair area was, and the two red circles were the optional drop zones:

I think the only purpose of the drop zones had to be because there were a few portions of this roped off area where you could conceivably be in perfect position in the fairway and then be required to drop in the rough.  Hole 9's GUR was very similar and I ended up in it, but just went to my NPR, not the drop zone.

Anyways, I don't think that relief could or should be granted.  After all, it's no different than a fairway where the balls all tend to funnel to a small landing area.  I think that suggesting relief might be allowed from a drop zone is indirectly saying that relief should be granted from divot holes - and we all know where we stand on that one. 

[iacas]

@Golfingdad, that's a good example but obviously the course was not playing as designed. My fault though; I didn't exclude GUR.

[sjduffers]

I've got an example of a drop zone on a par 4. Hole #9 at Eagle Ridge in Gilroy, CA.

 

It's a downhill tee shot, in a canyon which funnels balls towards the middle of the fairway from the left side, with a LWH on the right side. Down there, for the second shot, there is a forced carry over a barranca (jungle, junk) which is a WH, but the width of the opening to fly over that barranca is small, and if one considers all the angles they could be coming from hitting that second shot, it becomes impossible to line up the 4th shot with the flag and the point of entry, unless you do it very near the WH itself. To alleviate that problem, there is a DZ near the middle of the opening, just past where the fairway ends.  So, someone a little too eager with their drive could well end up in the DZ (and call themselves lucky that the ball didn't roll out another 5 yards into the WH).

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

I've got an example of a drop zone on a par 4. Hole #9 at Eagle Ridge in Gilroy, CA.

It's a downhill tee shot, in a canyon which funnels balls towards the middle of the fairway from the left side, with a LWH on the right side. Down there, for the second shot, there is a forced carry over a barranca (jungle, junk) which is a WH, but the width of the opening to fly over that barranca is small, and if one considers all the angles they could be coming from hitting that second shot, it becomes impossible to line up the 4th shot with the flag and the point of entry, unless you do it very near the WH itself. To alleviate that problem, there is a DZ near the middle of the opening, just past where the fairway ends.  So, someone a little too eager with their drive could well end up in the DZ (and call themselves lucky that the ball didn't roll out another 5 yards into the WH).

I'm looking at the picture and don't see the problem. There's no guarantee you get a good lie when you drop on that line back from the hole. Sometimes re-hitting is the best option.

[sjduffers]

Depending on where you hit from (not necessarily in front of the opening, which as you can see, if fairly small), and how far off line your shot is (after all it must have been a real bad shot, if you can't just put the ball somewhere on the other side), it could be impossible to line up the flag and the point of entry, and yes the better option might be to re-hit from the same spot, but that could be a side-hill lie, or one to the side which caused the bad second shot in the first place (remember, not everyone is a good player!).

The course management decided that to help all this (and the pace of play) that they would put a DZ right in the middle of the opening, so that it will be way easier to clear the barranca on the second try. I can't fault them for that, but it leaves the potential for someone who got a little greedy of the tee, and hit it straight down the middle in front of the opening to finish in that DZ... In other words the DZ is not out of the way, except normally most people will lay up way short of it (say 20-25 yards or more). Sometimes, the roll out in the fairway downhill is not predictable though...

[iacas]

Right. Courses over-use drop zones for pace of play reasons. If it's a tough shot and you fail, lay up or pitch out there next time.

That hole doesn't need a drop zone. Just my opinion.

[Golfingdad]

Just now, iacas said:

Right. Courses over-use drop zones for pace of play reasons. If it's a tough shot and you fail, lay up or pitch out there next time.

That hole doesn't need a drop zone. Just my opinion.

Hey, be thankful they didn't do what a few of the courses around here have done in very similar situations (I know of at least two for certain) ... which is put the drop zone on the other side of the hazard. (Where's that facepalm emoji when you need it??)

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

(Where's that facepalm emoji when you need it??)

Just type (without spaces) : doh : like