straight slice

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/29/2016 at 9:01 PM, iacas said:

@Buckeyebowman, not always (depending on what you mean by "open")… If 0° is the target line, and negative is left… please describe, with a driver, the following flights (for a right-handed golfer):

a) Clubface is -5°, path is -10°.

b) Clubface is 0°, path is -5°.

c) Clubface is 5°, path is 0°.

d) Clubface is 5°, path is -5°.

Okay, I had to revisit this because a thought began nagging at me while having my morning coffee. Did iacas indicate clubface angle relative to path or to target line? I took it to be relative to path, but if it was relative to target line, that changed everything! All my answers would be wrong. This nagged at me all day until I could get back to the computer this evening. But how to do so on the up and up?

When I clicked on the "Instruction and Playing Tips" page, and looked at the title for this thread, I saw that iacas had replied. I clicked on the title of the thread instead of the star, which would take me to the first unread post. I did not want to read his latest post, only his "quiz post", which I have again quoted above. I don't know if the mods or administrators here have any way to check this, but I swear it's the truth!

Reading it again, I realize it's time for me to eat a little crow! Iacas indicated both path and face angle relative to target line! I'm glad I didn't read his latest reply which would have, no doubt, given me a failing grade. Again, I misread iacas' post because I had too many of my own ideas in my head, and let them get in the way of my reading comprehension. THE FAULT IS ENTIRELY MINE!

However, I'm ready to give it another rip and see how it goes. So here goes...

A) To target; Path -10, Face-5. Path is well left of target, face not so much but still open to path by 5 degrees. Big pull fade or slice. Liable to end up in left rough unless it catches trees left!

B) To target; Path -5, Face 0. Same ball flight, just starts a little less left of target. Might wind up in the middle of the fairway.

C) To target; Path 0, Face 5. Again, same ball flight with Face 5 degrees open to path. Starts out at target and fades or slices right. Probably winds up in right rough.

It seems to me in the above three examples you (iacas) are describing the same swing. In every instance the clubface angle is 5 degrees open to the Path. The only difference among them is the swingpath. It starts out 10 degrees left, then 5, then 0.

D) To target; Path -5, Face 5. This is the big bazinga! The booming pull slice! With the face a full 10 degrees open to the path, this thing could wind up in the adjacent fairway, if there is one! Otherwise it's buried in the tall and uncut!

What I'm trying to do here is take a make up exam. I have no doubt in my mind that I flunked the first one! I do stand by my comment that it doesn't matter what I think "open" is. With sophisticated technology, that can be measured. However, for most coaches and instructors, it's still ball flight that provides all the clues.

And I didn't mean to dis Valleygolfer. But if he's going to tell someone to ignore me, I'd at least like one reason why.

 

[Abu3baid]

3 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Okay, I had to revisit this because a thought began nagging at me while having my morning coffee. Did iacas indicate clubface angle relative to path or to target line? I took it to be relative to path, but if it was relative to target line, that changed everything! All my answers would be wrong. This nagged at me all day until I could get back to the computer this evening. But how to do so on the up and up?

When I clicked on the "Instruction and Playing Tips" page, and looked at the title for this thread, I saw that iacas had replied. I clicked on the title of the thread instead of the star, which would take me to the first unread post. I did not want to read his latest post, only his "quiz post", which I have again quoted above. I don't know if the mods or administrators here have any way to check this, but I swear it's the truth!

Reading it again, I realize it's time for me to eat a little crow! Iacas indicated both path and face angle relative to target line! I'm glad I didn't read his latest reply which would have, no doubt, given me a failing grade. Again, I misread iacas' post because I had too many of my own ideas in my head, and let them get in the way of my reading comprehension. THE FAULT IS ENTIRELY MINE!

However, I'm ready to give it another rip and see how it goes. So here goes...

A) To target; Path -10, Face-5. Path is well left of target, face not so much but still open to path by 5 degrees. Big pull fade or slice. Liable to end up in left rough unless it catches trees left!

B) To target; Path -5, Face 0. Same ball flight, just starts a little less left of target. Might wind up in the middle of the fairway.

C) To target; Path 0, Face 5. Again, same ball flight with Face 5 degrees open to path. Starts out at target and fades or slices right. Probably winds up in right rough.

It seems to me in the above three examples you (iacas) are describing the same swing. In every instance the clubface angle is 5 degrees open to the Path. The only difference among them is the swingpath. It starts out 10 degrees left, then 5, then 0.

D) To target; Path -5, Face 5. This is the big bazinga! The booming pull slice! With the face a full 10 degrees open to the path, this thing could wind up in the adjacent fairway, if there is one! Otherwise it's buried in the tall and uncut!

What I'm trying to do here is take a make up exam. I have no doubt in my mind that I flunked the first one! I do stand by my comment that it doesn't matter what I think "open" is. With sophisticated technology, that can be measured. However, for most coaches and instructors, it's still ball flight that provides all the clues.

And I didn't mean to dis Valleygolfer. But if he's going to tell someone to ignore me, I'd at least like one reason why.

 

The reason is because it seems like you have the ball flight laws confused..  I believe you by the way that you didn't read his reply.  You still got C and D wrong..  They are both push slices and not straight or a pull slice.

Read through his response as he articulated it well.

[iacas]

Here's the problem: you kind of correctly say that ball flight is almost all you need but then you get ball flight wrong: the ball starts much closer to the face, not the path as you seem to believe.

And none of those balls finish in the left rough with any distance. 5 degrees is a big slice. The farthest left they start is 6 degrees or so. Then 1, 4 right, and 2 right in order.

[amoline]

Just wanted to say quickly that I apologize if I caused any confusion  and Iacas and the other pro instructors (which I am of course not) are more than welcome to correct if my post was misinformed. 

Good discussion and a reminder for everyone. Again sorry for any trouble caused! 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 7/2/2016 at 7:57 AM, iacas said:

Here's the problem: you kind of correctly say that ball flight is almost all you need but then you get ball flight wrong: the ball starts much closer to the face, not the path as you seem to believe.

And none of those balls finish in the left rough with any distance. 5 degrees is a big slice. The farthest left they start is 6 degrees or so. Then 1, 4 right, and 2 right in order.

Thinking about it more makes me realize that you are right. It seemed to me that a 5 degree difference between face angle and path angle was pretty significant, and should produce some severe deviation in ball flight. Also, opening the face introduces more loft, thus engendering the pop up.

The thing that hit my brain was a comment made long ago by none other than Jack Nicklaus. He claimed that when he had to hit a big, sweeping fade or slice, all he did was set up aiming left, and turned the clubface to the target. I tried this a bunch of times, and the ball always launched immediately to the right. I could play some back than, and Nicklaus was my hero, but I finally figured he had to be doing something other than what he described! Feel vs Real? 

Anyway, very interesting and instructive post!

[Valleygolfer]

On 7/2/2016 at 0:17 AM, Buckeyebowman said:

And I didn't mean to dis Valleygolfer. But if he's going to tell someone to ignore me, I'd at least like one reason why.

Honestly it didn't look like you put too much into your statement besides calling it " This is the most utter nonsense!" The posts referring to ball flight laws and thread, prior to your post would have helped you understand why if you really wanted to know. Finally @iacas is way more qualified than I am to help you with this and I knew he would be along shortly. Mostly because I think he might find people that teach incorrect ball flight a bit of a pet peeve but I could be wrong.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Mostly because I think he might find people that teach incorrect ball flight a bit of a pet peeve but I could be wrong.

Not so much of a pet peeve, just… it's so easy to get right, and so destructive if you get them wrong. Getting them wrong can literally have you working on the opposite thing that you need to do.

[Buckeyebowman]

12 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Honestly it didn't look like you put too much into your statement besides calling it " This is the most utter nonsense!" The posts referring to ball flight laws and thread, prior to your post would have helped you understand why if you really wanted to know. Finally @iacas is way more qualified than I am to help you with this and I knew he would be along shortly. Mostly because I think he might find people that teach incorrect ball flight a bit of a pet peeve but I could be wrong.

As it was! The poster I was criticizing wrote that a club face traveling square to the swing path would produce a crooked shot. And that the OP's problems were purely a "swingpath" issue! That is indeed, "the most utter nonsense"! Read the posts! And, yes, iacas is way more qualified than me to decide such things, which is why I subjected myself to his examination. And accepted the results thereof!

[Yukari]

On June 18, 2016 at 8:26 PM, cbrister said:

Struggling mostly with a straight slice with nearly every club. Sometimes it's more of a fade, but a heavy fade regardless. From what I know about the ball flight laws, am I correct in assuming that if the ball starts straight, grip is ok? The slice is caused by not turning enough? I don't have a recent video....

 

How can a slice be straight?

[Lime Shark]

It's my understanding that:

Ball clockwise rotation = curves to the right.

Ball counter-clockwise rotation = curves to the left.

Is that correct?

[GolfLug]

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 0:01 AM, Yukari said:

How can a slice be straight?

It goes straight, then it slices.. LOL!

[colin007]

35 minutes ago, Lime Shark said:

It's my understanding that:

Ball clockwise rotation = curves to the right.

Ball counter-clockwise rotation = curves to the left.

Is that correct?

An easier way to think of it would be that the ball starts where the face is pointing and then curves away from the path. The ball flies straight when the path and the face are aligned. The ball curves left when the face is pointed to the left of the path. The ball curves right when the face is pointed to the right of the path. 

[mvmac]

10 hours ago, Lime Shark said:

It's my understanding that:

Ball clockwise rotation = curves to the right.

Ball counter-clockwise rotation = curves to the left.

Is that correct?

The ball spins in one direction (backspin), what causes it to curve is the axis that it rotates on. For a draw (right handed golfer) the axis is "tilted" left, opposite for a fade. Think of it like wings on an airplane.

On 7/4/2016 at 9:01 PM, Yukari said:

How can a slice be straight?

Ball starts at the target and curves away from it.