Golf should be kicked out of Olympics

[natureboy]

21 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

If you're going to keep golf out of the Olympics, how about kicking out basketball. Golf is, at least, as universal a game as that! I've been wondering for years why golf was being kept out! OK, maybe the current format doesn't work. It's their first shot at it in a while. In another thread I suggested several ways the IOC could work with golf's ruling bodies world wide, in order to make one more acceptable.

Basketball has country level / city level leagues across Europe and in China too, I believe. Not as big as 'football' / soccer, but far more universal than golf. Just think about what's required to play the two games.

19 hours ago, rkim291968 said:

55% of votes so far are "no" or "don't care" ones.  Considering that  vast majority of voters here are ardent golfers, I am surprised that only 45% are saying "yes."    

It's too early to tell if golf will be a regular fixture at the Olympics.   But if baseball was any indication, I can see golf making a few appearances before it is gone from the Olympics for another 100 years.   

I think it's too early to tell. Golf is probably about as universal as tennis was, maybe slightly less. I think baseball,might be even less universal than cricket (at least in terms of countries that play it) cricket has a pretty wide base in southeast Asia / Australia.

[rkim291968]

Golf is "universal" at all.   There are many nations only with a few golf courses which are used mostly by tourists and the well to do.   Outside of few countries in Europe, Asia, and North America, golf is not a sports played by many.  For it to stay in the Olympics, it will have to spread.   The top players who are opting to skip the Olympics in its return after a long hiatus aren't doing any service to the sports which made them multi-millionaires.   My 2 cents.

[ElWagonne]

I voted yes.  But it should be a hybrid solution.  Each team has 5 golfers, 3 amateurs & 2 pros.  The first 3 rounds are like qualifying for a NCAA tournament event.  Low am after 3 rounds gets the gold + exemptions to the next years' majors.  Top 4 teams play match play after that to determine a team gold.  

[natureboy]

13 minutes ago, ElWagonne said:

I voted yes.  But it should be a hybrid solution.  Each team has 5 golfers, 3 amateurs & 2 pros.  The first 3 rounds are like qualifying for a NCAA tournament event.  Low am after 3 rounds gets the gold + exemptions to the next years' majors.  Top 4 teams play match play after that to determine a team gold.  

Interesting idea. Do you think 'just' a team gold would be enough motivation for the top pros?

I would prefer three match rounds for a total of 8 teams in the mix so there's at least one potential 'Cinderella story'.

[ElWagonne]

25 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Interesting idea. Do you think 'just' a team gold would be enough motivation for the top pros?

I would prefer three match rounds for a total of 8 teams in the mix so there's at least one potential 'Cinderella story'.

I think it would for those that don't get a chance to play for the Ryder Cup.  8 teams would be cool too, but the flip side of that would be are the pros willing to play 6 rounds of golf.

[natureboy]

2 minutes ago, ElWagonne said:

I think it would for those that don't get a chance to play for the Ryder Cup.  8 teams would be cool too, but the flip side of that would be are the pros willing to play 6 rounds of golf.

Yeah, 6 rounds is a lot, but isn't the Olympiad 2 weeks? Do the women and men need a full week each? It's the Olympics, you're supposed to get tired.

A possible issue with seeding for medal round position I thought about is intentional tanking for position against a weaker opponent. Think that's a possibility? I would not want to see that.

If 6 is too many rounds total then, I'd go to 2 rounds of stroke play for individual amateur medal and team seeding for top 8 countries then

EITHER 2 rounds of 9-hole single elimination (drama! pressure!) followed by full 18-hole medal rounds (total of 4 rounds in Olympic tournament with non-medalists only playing 3).

OR 4 rounds of 9-hole seeded play plus full 18-hole medal matches (total of 5 rounds in Olympic tournament with non-medalists only playing 4):

• 1st 9-hole round 1 plays 8 & 2 plays 7 etc.
• 2nd 9-hole round 1 plays 5 & 2 plays 6 etc.
• points for win-lose-draw advance to 2 9-hole medal qualifiying rounds with ties broken by stroke play seed rank #
• 1st 9-hole medal qual round 1 plays 4 & 2 plays 3
• 2nd 9-hole medal qual round 1 plays 3 & 2 plays 4
• points for win-lose-draw advance to either gold/silver or bronze 18 hole-match with ties broken by stroke play seed rank #

The latter is clearly more convoluted, but I like it because it creates more of a potential mix of team matches, makes the original seeding matter a lot, and allows possible recovery from an off round.

[tdiii]

I don't see a place for it in the Olympics.  The Olympics should be the pinnacle of any sport -- and, yes, to me, this would suggest tennis, soccer/football, and basketball really don't belong.  Additionally, coverage, at least in the U.S., will be cr@ppy.  I am hopeful it is a positive for the women's game, but it is silly for the men's game. 

[natureboy]

5 hours ago, rkim291968 said:

Golf is "universal" at all.   There are many nations only with a few golf courses which are used mostly by tourists and the well to do.   Outside of few countries in Europe, Asia, and North America, golf is not a sports played by many.  For it to stay in the Olympics, it will have to spread.   The top players who are opting to skip the Olympics in its return after a long hiatus aren't doing any service to the sports which made them multi-millionaires.   My 2 cents.

It's clearly not as universal in terms of numbers as soccer / football, but the Olympics are not the big event for that sport either.

Yes it tends to be a middle class / upper middle class game, but there's also a tradition of caddies like Ben Hogan and Byron Nelson reaching the pinnacle.

Golf has a long tradition of top level male and female players from around the world in countries besides the U.S. including: U.K., Ireland, France, Australia, Argentina, South Africa, Spain, New Zealand, Belgium, Japan, Sweden, Canada, Holland, Mexico, South Korea, Malaysia, Italy, Thailand, Taiwan, & Fiji. India & China seem to be up and coming.

[rkim291968]

2 hours ago, natureboy said:

Golf has a long tradition of top level male and female players from around the world in countries besides the U.S. including: U.K., Ireland, France, Australia, Argentina, South Africa, Spain, New Zealand, Belgium, Japan, Sweden, Canada, Holland, Mexico, South Korea, Malaysia, Italy, Thailand, Taiwan, & Fiji. India & China seem to be up and coming.

That's not a big list.  IOC will continue to evaluate which sports stay in, and which will be kicked out.   If golf does not expand fast enough, they will be kicked out like baseball did.    I give it 2 - 3 more Olympics before it gets dropped.  

[Chilli Dipper]

5 hours ago, rkim291968 said:

That's not a big list.  IOC will continue to evaluate which sports stay in, and which will be kicked out.   If golf does not expand fast enough, they will be kicked out like baseball did.    I give it 2 - 3 more Olympics before it gets dropped.  

It's a longer list of contending countries than a lot of sports already in the Olympics, and it covers every continent except Antarctica. I can't make much of an argument that golf isn't a more global sport than, say, table tennis or badminton (whose medal tables consist nearly exclusively of Asian countries).

[Braivo]

17 hours ago, WUTiger said:

I like the idea of match play. Regional qualifying as per World Cup futbol, then the top 128 male and female golfers have a 36-hole medal play qualifier to determine the final 64. Then, do match play.

The US Amateur Championships (men's and women's) use this format.

You would have both an individual and a team champion. A nation would score points for having a player reach the round of 128 (medal), and more points as they advance.

As for coverage, have ESPN and The Golf Channel (TGC) do spot coverage of the regionals, and then the global Round of 128. After that, people can tap into TGC for the match-play rounds.

AS a goodwill gesture, the Television gurus might arrange for TGC feeds to be free, to promote good will and "grow the game."

Quite seriously, would any of you fellow TSTers be interested in working up a 2020 Olympic golf game plan to present to Olympic officials? 

I think not matter what it should end with a match play like the WGC match play championship. It would be fun to have a gold medal match and bronze medal match going on the final day. In fact, the tournament setup like the WGC is probably the simplest, easiest solution. 

As it stands now, by doing stroke play, half the field will be out of contention after day 1 or 2, then what? They really don't have anything to play for since there's no money or points. Lame. 

[rkim291968]

3 hours ago, Chilli Dipper said:

It's a longer list of contending countries than a lot of sports already in the Olympics, and it covers every continent except Antarctica. I can't make much of an argument that golf isn't a more global sport than, say, table tennis or badminton (whose medal tables consist nearly exclusively of Asian countries).

Table Tennis is not a good example as it is played world wide in every corner.   Just b/c only Chinese are winning medals does not mean it's in the same situation as golf.   Golf is not being played in big numbers in overwhelming number of countries.   It will, however, attract more support (e.g, Chinese government) the longer it stays in Olympics.   The better comparison I can make with golf is equestrian, a sport more financially/socially more exclusive than golf.  That should have been kicked out but that is a topic for another thread in another forum.

[newtogolf]

7 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

Table Tennis is not a good example as it is played world wide in every corner.   Just b/c only Chinese are winning medals does not mean it's in the same situation as golf.   Golf is not being played in big numbers in overwhelming number of countries.   It will, however, attract more support (e.g, Chinese government) the longer it stays in Olympics.   The better comparison I can make with golf is equestrian, a sport more financially/socially more exclusive than golf.  That should have been kicked out but that is a topic for another thread in another forum.

There are a lot of events in the Olympics are that not played in a lot of counties.  How many countries bobsled, ski or have curling competitions, etc.  Cricket is probably played in more countries than baseball.  The staple events, track & field, boxing, weightlifting, wrestling, gymnastics, swimming and maybe ice skating are probably popular throughout the world, but the rest are probably only popular because they exist in the Olympics.  

 

[Chilli Dipper]

1 hour ago, rkim291968 said:

Table Tennis is not a good example as it is played world wide in every corner.   Just b/c only Chinese are winning medals does not mean it's in the same situation as golf.   Golf is not being played in big numbers in overwhelming number of countries.   It will, however, attract more support (e.g, Chinese government) the longer it stays in Olympics.   The better comparison I can make with golf is equestrian, a sport more financially/socially more exclusive than golf.  That should have been kicked out but that is a topic for another thread in another forum.

There's a difference between table tennis and golf that has something to do with cost/ROI. The cost of entry for table tennis is substantially lower than in golf, yet the extent of table tennis as an elite competitive sport is limited nearly entirely to Southeast Asia. Golf is played in comparatively fewer places than table tennis, but elite competition producing international-level talent exists in every country that has developed a sizeable golfing culture. (You can say the same thing about equestrian sports, for that matter.)

[natureboy]

12 hours ago, rkim291968 said:

That's not a big list.  IOC will continue to evaluate which sports stay in, and which will be kicked out.   If golf does not expand fast enough, they will be kicked out like baseball did.    I give it 2 - 3 more Olympics before it gets dropped.  

You may be right that it ultimately doesn't last, but it clearly has more worldwide presence than baseball. It may last longer.

Maybe the backup option is for it to be amateur only (for men at least) or only part of the mix in Olympics where there is a championship caliber course already close enough to the site so one doesn't have to be built in a country where participation is low.

[grantisadrummer]

My thought on the issue is that any sport being in the olympics advertises it on a world scale. Maybe making it more accessible to people who haven't seen it before or haven't taken an interest. I'm all for that.

[Strandly]

On 6/30/2016 at 0:19 PM, rkim291968 said:

Golf should be out of the Olympics?   List your reasons as to why, or why not.

Good question.

The Olympics are filled with individual sports so in that regard golf fits nicely.  But it's also still a rich man's sport and many people around the world probably couldn't play it even if they wanted to, so in that regard I think it should go.

The real question, I think, is what the Olympics should be about.  When it was started years ago the sports were basic things like running, jumping, swimming, wrestling, etc?  Stuff that showcased athleticism that pretty much everyone could do regardless of economic status and that didn't require much, if any, equipment.  Were these sports picked because they were the most popular sports at the time, or because they were accessible to everyone?

The Olympics today seems confused.  You've still got various timed things like running and swimming, which in my opinion is boring as hell to watch and could be done with a stopwatch and a chunk of pavement anywhere in the world any day of the week.  And then you have obscure sports like badminton or skeet shooting that I'm guessing hardly anyone (worldwide) has played.

If the Olympics are supposed to be about broad appeal then golf (and probably a bunch of other sports) should go, but if it's about showcasing high levels of skill then it's not any worse than a bunch of other sports that are already part of the games.

Anyway, I voted don't care.

[rkim291968]

59 minutes ago, Strandly said:

Good question.

The Olympics are filled with individual sports so in that regard golf fits nicely.  But it's also still a rich man's sport and many people around the world probably couldn't play it even if they wanted to, so in that regard I think it should go.

The real question, I think, is what the Olympics should be about.  When it was started years ago the sports were basic things like running, jumping, swimming, wrestling, etc?  Stuff that showcased athleticism that pretty much everyone could do regardless of economic status and that didn't require much, if any, equipment.  Were these sports picked because they were the most popular sports at the time, or because they were accessible to everyone?

The Olympics today seems confused.  You've still got various timed things like running and swimming, which in my opinion is boring as hell to watch and could be done with a stopwatch and a chunk of pavement anywhere in the world any day of the week.  And then you have obscure sports like badminton or skeet shooting that I'm guessing hardly anyone (worldwide) has played.

If the Olympics are supposed to be about broad appeal then golf (and probably a bunch of other sports) should go, but if it's about showcasing high levels of skill then it's not any worse than a bunch of other sports that are already part of the games.

Anyway, I voted don't care.

I agree except the example badminton.  It is the 2nd most popular sports  in participation after soccer according to an ESPN article back in 2004.