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Elmer

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1 hour ago, Gunther said:

People may view the right as extreme and certain people on both fringes are.  But the point is, conservatives are and have always been guided by the bible and the constitution.  Those have not changed in a lot of years.  Until something changes in those 2 works that would move people to the right, they remain where they have always been.  

The farther left your views are, the farther the right is from you.  But they've always been there, you probably haven't, unless you've always believed in socialism, anarchy, or other leftist themes that have become more widely accepted of late. 

Do you believe the 1950's Republican Party platform cited above is inaccurate? Or do you believe those all align with modern-day conservative positions?

Edited by drmevo

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The meme is a very brief summary. Here it is in its entirety:

The 1956 Republican Platform UCSB Link

It would pass for a modern Democratic Party platform well except for the atomic energy portion. I used to be a Republican.

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1 hour ago, Gunther said:

But the point is, conservatives are and have always been guided by the bible and the constitution.  Those have not changed in a lot of years.  

The farther left your views are, the farther the right is from you.  But they've always been there, you probably haven't, unless you've always believed in socialism, anarchy, or other leftist themes that have become more widely accepted of late. 

1) No, the conservatives have not always been guided by the bible and the constitution.  And to suggest such is pure delusion or ignorance of history and the present.

2) Anarchy and socialism aren't "leftist themes" any more than they are far-right themes.  Just more delusion.

The bible is a hodgepodge of contradicting themes, which religions of many denominations latch onto when they are convenient, and conservatives are no different.  The bible has guided their ideology no more so than any given politician.  And if the bible guided it this year, Trump wouldn't be the nominee.  As far as the constitution, do you realize how many GOP-backed laws have been struck down in federal courts over the past 2-3 years?

Edited by bplewis24

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3 hours ago, drmevo said:

 

I have big problems with these statements.  First of all, no law is preventing Evangelicals from saying whatever they want. Donald apparently doesn't understand how free speech works.  Secondly, why should churches be tax-exempt at all?  Let them write off their charitable donations and work like everyone else. 

I have a huge problem with churches or a religious house of worship and still be able to maintain tax exemption. I don't think anyone should be able to preach to a congregation and tell them that the bible or Jebus wants them voting for Trump or Clinton. That is not the stance of the Catholic Church, Judaism or Islam.
For any Evangelical who feels there church should get involved in politics, will they feel the same way when a Mosque does it?
I am with you on revoking tax exemption. We no longer live in the 1700's, back when churches were the center of town, the meeting place and a save haven!
now churches are money making ventures, that take up real estate with people like Joel Olsteen making millions to tell you what is in a book you could read for yourself!

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

Another myth/red herring I see repeated often.  Nothing pushes the right farther right, it's always been in the same position.  That is the very nature of conservatism.  

The gap between right and left has widened, yes, but it's because the left has moved farther and farther left, esp the past 8 years.

Couple examples:

Gay marriage:  not long ago this was not supported by left or right, Obama and Clinton openly opposed it.  Now it's mainstream but conservatives still don't support it.  They haven't moved farther right, they remain where they were.

Trans bathrooms:  Just a year ago, no one supported men going into ladies restrooms and locker rooms.  Now it's all the rage of the left.  The right remains opposed to it, again, they didn't move right, the left took a giant leap left.  

 

The left has not moved any further left. Those who live in the bible belt and midwest and the south have finally caught up to the rest of the world.

I have had "gay" friends for more years than I can remember. never understood a law that omitted a tax paying citizen, just because someone else only chose to read part of the bible and discount about slaves, beating wives and shellfish!

8 years ago my office required a "co-ed" bathroom. We had an employee who was in transition. We accommodated and she still works there. Most of the office did not have an issue. Those that did were informed that to deny access to a bathroom was discrimination.

And for the record "men going into ladies restrooms and locker rooms" are called perverts!
a man who is transitioning does not think themselves or see as a man. They are women. not to you, but to themselves they are women. They are not going into a bathroom to sneak a peek, they are going in as women to take a piss!

2 hours ago, newtogolf said:

 

1.  Obama was the one that made Trans bathrooms an issue, not the right, did you forget his executive order that trans could use whatever bathroom they identify with.  Up until that point (as liberals were quick to point out) many were already using the bathroom they identified with, so why the need for an executive order?

NC passed house bill 2, which banned trans in bathrooms. Obama issued an executive order.
This was not an issue until NC passed a law discriminating against a group of people.
BTW, good on NBA for pulling out the all star game!
none of this was an issue until NC looked at a group of people and said "you can't do that".
surprised they did not make them drink from separate drinking fountains!

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1 hour ago, DrvFrShow said:

The meme is a very brief summary. Here it is in its entirety:

The 1956 Republican Platform UCSB Link

It would pass for a modern Democratic Party platform well except for the atomic energy portion. I used to be a Republican.

What we've seen in the last fifty years – starting the passing of Civil Rights Act of 1964, and mostly complete by the 1994 "Republican Revolution" – is the transformation of the American two-party system from being largely drawn along socio-economic lines to ideological ones. There was a built-in moderating effect when the Republicans were the party of WASPs and the white-collars, and the Democrats were the party of immigrants and blue-collars: there were always people on the other side of the aisle who shared your position on one issue or another. Today, Republicans define themselves by how conservative they are, and Democrats, depending on which way the wind blows, either define themselves as how liberal they are or how close to the middle they are. There's no room for compromise.

24 minutes ago, Elmer said:

NC passed house bill 2, which banned trans in bathrooms. Obama issued an executive order.

This was not an issue until NC passed a law discriminating against a group of people.
BTW, good on NBA for pulling out the all star game!
none of this was an issue until NC looked at a group of people and said "you can't do that".
surprised they did not make them drink from separate drinking fountains!

More specifically, Charlotte had passed an anti-discrimination ordinance in support of the city's LGBT community, and the Republican state legislature immediately reacted by passing a bill that reversed and superseded the local law.

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23 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

What we've seen in the last fifty years – starting the passing of Civil Rights Act of 1964, and mostly complete by the 1994 "Republican Revolution" – is the transformation of the American two-party system from being largely drawn along socio-economic lines to ideological ones. There was a built-in moderating effect when the Republicans were the party of WASPs and the white-collars, and the Democrats were the party of immigrants and blue-collars: there were always people on the other side of the aisle who shared your position on one issue or another. Today, Republicans define themselves by how conservative they are, and Democrats, depending on which way the wind blows, either define themselves as how liberal they are or how close to the middle they are. There's no room for compromise.

More specifically, Charlotte had passed an anti-discrimination ordinance in support of the city's LGBT community, and the Republican state legislature immediately reacted by passing a bill that reversed and superseded the local law.

This along with the end of print journalism which had relatively high standards to digital media where anyone can publish, and television news to the 24 hr infotainment and propaganda cycle from which it is increasingly difficult to sort out disinformation from reality, little to no investigative reporting, and we get what we have today. We get a world where people don't know what the hell is going on. We get people voting on complex issues when they have little or no knowledge about what their voting - take the Brexit as the latest example when the largest search on Google in the UK the day after the vote was "What is the European Union?" My god you'd think that people would look that up before they made their decision. 

But why doesn't that surprise me when people still think our president was born in Kenya? And that building the Great Wall of America will solve our problems - oh, and somehow he'll get Mexico to pay for it. Good luck with that. And thinking that cutting taxes even more for the rich will create jobs here and help reduce the deficit. #headdesk 

And @Chilli Dipper is dead right about the anti-discrimination ordinance in Charlotte. The NC State legislature's HB 2 contained specific language that reversed that ordinance. 

The climate in this country has gotten to the point where David Duke says it's ripe for him to make a run for the US Senate. And I think he'll win. I also think Trump will win the Presidency because he'll play the fear card. Fear always beats logic.

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1 hour ago, DrvFrShow said:

This along with the end of print journalism which had relatively high standards to digital media where anyone can publish, and television news to the 24 hr infotainment and propaganda cycle from which it is increasingly difficult to sort out disinformation from reality, little to no investigative reporting, and we get what we have today. We get a world where people don't know what the hell is going on. We get people voting on complex issues when they have little or no knowledge about what their voting - take the Brexit as the latest example when the largest search on Google in the UK the day after the vote was "What is the European Union?" My god you'd think that people would look that up before they made their decision. 

But why doesn't that surprise me when people still think our president was born in Kenya? And that building the Great Wall of America will solve our problems - oh, and somehow he'll get Mexico to pay for it. Good luck with that. And thinking that cutting taxes even more for the rich will create jobs here and help reduce the deficit. #headdesk 

And @Chilli Dipper is dead right about the anti-discrimination ordinance in Charlotte. The NC State legislature's HB 2 contained specific language that reversed that ordinance. 

The climate in this country has gotten to the point where David Duke says it's ripe for him to make a run for the US Senate. And I think he'll win. I also think Trump will win the Presidency because he'll play the fear card. Fear always beats logic.

Whatever it takes to ensure HRC doesn't move into the White House is okay with me.  

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6 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Lol, true that.  Wow, Trump is having an effect.

He's doing a great job of showing how much of a crock of shit people's "conservative principles" are, that's for sure.

Incidentally, that's the same crock of shit you fellas would choose over Hillary.

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2 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

The climate in this country has gotten to the point where David Duke says it's ripe for him to make a run for the US Senate. And I think he'll win. I also think Trump will win the Presidency because he'll play the fear card. Fear always beats logic.

I'm not buying it. He's been spouting this fear crap for months and he's still struggling to keep up with Hillary in the polls. 

I don't agree with Bernie Sanders much, but he did tweet this while watching Trumps speech. 

When a presidential candidate starts speaking in absolutes and fear mongering they are leaning towards the tools dictators use. It does show a clear lack of reality that he will not be a dictator even though how much he probably would like to be. The problem with setting out economic plans, tax plans, education plans, health care plans, they are all legislative processes. 

If Trump does win the presidency I wonder how many days in office till he gets impeached. Can we do a calendar poll :-D

 

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Being fairly conservative, some of Trump's general ideas sound good, but listening to his speech leaves me wondering if he either 1) is talking down to where he believes the average voter's intelligence level stops or 2) really has no clue how to go about any of it.

I didn't need the blow-by-blow of how he is going to accomplish all of these glorious things. I just need an indication of a real plan (that will necessarily involve congress). My impression is he spouting off and using volume to sound authoritative to mask ignorance.

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14 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Being fairly conservative, some of Trump's general ideas sound good, but listening to his speech leaves me wondering if he either 1) is talking down to where he believes the average voter's intelligence level stops or 2) really has no clue how to go about any of it.

 

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2 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Being fairly conservative, some of Trump's general ideas sound good, but listening to his speech leaves me wondering if he either 1) is talking down to where he believes the average voter's intelligence level stops or 2) really has no clue how to go about any of it.

I didn't need the blow-by-blow of how he is going to accomplish all of these glorious things. I just need an indication of a real plan (that will necessarily involve congress). My impression is he spouting off and using volume to sound authoritative to mask ignorance.

Trump spoke on this, he said the average person in the US is at a 6th grade reading / vocabulary level and since he wants to appeal to all voters he tries to use simple sentences and words.  

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22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Trump spoke on this, he said the average person in the US is at a 6th grade reading / vocabulary level and since he wants to appeal to all voters he tries to use simple sentences and words.  

I don't buy it, I'm going with: 

3 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

2) really has no clue how to go about any of it.

It may be true that he uses an extremely limited 4th-grade vocabulary on purpose, but that shouldn't stop him from articulating how he plans to enact his policies.  Whenever he's pressed, he either changes the subject or says something to the effect of, "you'll see, it'll be great." He's the kid who never read the book trying to bullshit his way through the book report.  

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While the points Trump made in his acceptance speech were all footnoted, they were what are called half-truths. They were facts taken from the NYT, Washington Post, and other reputable sources, but they left out the details surrounding those facts. A Half-truth is a statement that conveys only part of the truth, especially one used deliberately in order to deceive someone. It is a tool of propaganda. 

His speech was full of them. It also was not the America I'm living in. It gave a message that America is a mess and only Trump can fix it. This is a cult of personality. The worst thing people can do is underestimate Trump.

21 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Trump spoke on this, he said the average person in the US is at a 6th grade reading / vocabulary level and since he wants to appeal to all voters he tries to use simple sentences and words.  

Quote

Hitler also knew this (from Mein Kampf): 

The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision.

All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to. Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be.

The function of propaganda is, for example, not to weigh and ponder the rights of different people, but exclusively to emphasize the one right which it has set out to argue for. Its task is not to make an objective study of the truth, in so far as it favors the enemy, and then set it before the masses with academic fairness; its task is to serve our own right, always and unflinchingly.

The saving factor is that Trump is a narcissist and very thin skinned. The biggest mistake his opponents can make is to go after him with facts. Go after him with sarcasm and humor. How trustworthy is he? Ask his ex-wives he was openly cheating on. Focus on his 4 bankruptcies. His open lie when he said he was not aware of the KKK. Really, Donald? Go negative early and often. He mentioned one time using a nuke, so show a nuclear bomb going off in a commercial - that one was done by LBJ and did in Goldwater.

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20 hours ago, drmevo said:

Do you believe the 1950's Republican Party platform cited above is inaccurate? Or do you believe those all align with modern-day conservative positions?

Got side-tracked last night but did want to respond to this.  I am not a Republican, I am a conservative or right of center.  Party platforms come and go but conservatism and liberalism are ideologies that stay fairly true.

In terms of Ike's platform, I only skimmed it but it seemed pretty reasonable with the exception of supporting the union.  It could be the unions were still necessary then, they have become corrupt engines that feed the left's coffers today and as such are detrimental to society.

The Republicans of today are pro-big government and pro-open borders.  They've given Obama all the money he needed to double the national debt and I blame them as much as Obama for the sorry state of affairs we are in today, maybe more because they had the power to reign him in.  Do you know that Hillary misplaced $6B at State?  It's gone, how could that happen without complicity from Republicans?

So, I'm a conservative voting for a Democrat this November, and my original point stands.

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