Geezerbill's Friend's Preshot Alignment

[Geezerbill]

I have a playing friend who's pre shot routine is to look down the line to his target, then place the club behind the ball with the nose of the club pointing on the target line.He then moves to his address position and dies his waggle etc lifting and lowering his club .I am sure he is breaking some rule by the grounding of his club  behind the ball before he takes his stance ?I don't want to suggest this to him unless I can quote the rule as he dies it with every shot.

[Ernest Jones]

Wrong forum @Geezerbill. This is a forum for members' swing videos.  

You can post your question over here: https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/10-rules-of-golf/

Pretty sure your friend isn't breaking any rules. 

[jamo]

28 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

Wrong forum @Geezerbill. This is a forum for members' swing videos.  

You can post your question over here: https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/10-rules-of-golf/

Pretty sure your friend isn't breaking any rules. 

I moved it and renamed it. 

[Valleygolfer]

If he put his club down and lined his feet up to it and then picked it up to hit his ball, that would be illegal. His current routine's only crime is "irritating you," apparently...

[Ernest Jones]

22 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

If he put his club down and lined his feet up to it and then picked it up to hit his ball, that would be illegal. His current routine's only crime is "irritating you," apparently...

I think that is legal too, as long as he picks up the indicator (in this case, club) prior to playing his shot, but I may be wrong. 

[Asheville]

Decision 8-2a/1 Club Placed on Ground to Align Feet
Q. A player places a club on the ground parallel to the line of play to assist him in aligning his feet properly. Is this permissible?

A. Yes, provided the player removes the club before playing his stroke. Otherwise, a breach of Rule 8-2a would occur.

[Valleygolfer]

1 hour ago, Asheville said:

Decision 8-2a/1 Club Placed on Ground to Align Feet
Q. A player places a club on the ground parallel to the line of play to assist him in aligning his feet properly. Is this permissible?

A. Yes, provided the player removes the club before playing his stroke. Otherwise, a breach of Rule 8-2a would occur.

I stand corrected. I was told at some point it was not permissible. I guess I believed the source.

[iacas]

Nothing your friend is doing is against the Rules of Golf, if we've understood it or the permutation where he actually lays a club down, @Geezerbill.

[Rulesman]

14 hours ago, Geezerbill said:

I have a playing friend who's pre shot routine is to look down the line to his target, then place the club behind the ball with the nose of the club pointing on the target line.He then moves to his address position and dies his waggle etc lifting and lowering his club .I am sure he is breaking some rule by the grounding of his club  behind the ball before he takes his stance ?I don't want to suggest this to him unless I can quote the rule as he dies it with every shot.

Only if he presses the grass down behind his ball is three a problem. ie does more than just let the head lie on the ground.

 

(Except when on the tee).

Edited November 14, 2016 by Rulesman

[Geezerbill]

Thanks for all the contributions,Just to clarify guys,my friend places the club head behind the ball,basically pointing towards his target with the nose of the club near to the ball,in line with his swing path,then moves and takes up his stance normally,I am concerned that he could be penalised for grounding his club in this way.

[DaveP043]

5 minutes ago, Geezerbill said:

Thanks for all the contributions,Just to clarify guys,my friend places the club head behind the ball,basically pointing towards his target with the nose of the club near to the ball,in line with his swing path,then moves and takes up his stance normally,I am concerned that he could be penalised for grounding his club in this way.

10 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Only if he presses the grass down behind his ball is three a problem. ie does more than just let the head lie on the ground.

 

(Except when on the tee).

As @Rulesman says, that only becomes a problem if he presses down excessively to improve his lie.  If he simply rests it there as a temporary alignment aid, he's fine.

 

[turtleback]

On 11/14/2016 at 11:14 AM, Geezerbill said:

Thanks for all the contributions,Just to clarify guys,my friend places the club head behind the ball,basically pointing towards his target with the nose of the club near to the ball,in line with his swing path,then moves and takes up his stance normally,I am concerned that he could be penalised for grounding his club in this way.

Based on what? You haven't indicated any rule you think he is breaking.  Doing something weird isn't against the rules just because it is weird.  You have to cite an actual rule he is violating, and as the other posts have said, there is no such rule.

[GLFTPS]

On 11/13/2016 at 6:51 PM, Valleygolfer said:

I stand corrected. I was told at some point it was not permissible. I guess I believed the source.

In a Decision on this, a player could align his feet with a club in the dew on the fairway, remove the club and use the line in the dew for alignment. It seems that it would be a violation but it is not.

Edited December 29, 2016 by GLFTPS

[Asheville]

2 hours ago, GLFTPS said:

In a Decision on this, a player could align his feet with a club in the dew on the fairway, remove the club and use the line in the dew for alignment. It seems that it would be a violation but it is not.

I don't agree.

Based on this from Decision 8-2a/0.5 Meaning of "Anyone Indicating Line of Play" and "Placing of Mark for Purpose of Indicating Line of Play" in Rule 8-2a

Rule 8-2a allows a player to have the line of play indicated to him by anyone. However, any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge, for the purpose of indicating the line of play, must be removed before the stroke is made.

[GLFTPS]

4 hours ago, Asheville said:

I don't agree.

Based on this from Decision 8-2a/0.5 Meaning of "Anyone Indicating Line of Play" and "Placing of Mark for Purpose of Indicating Line of Play" in Rule 8-2a

Rule 8-2a allows a player to have the line of play indicated to him by anyone. However, any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge, for the purpose of indicating the line of play, must be removed before the stroke is made.

You are confusing alignment with line of play.  The Rules specify that you cannot have a mark that assists in indicating the line of play. The Rules state that you may lie a club at your feet for alignment but remove it before playing a shot. There is no mention of a line in the dew created by lying the club down. I went through Rules training and passed the test and this was brought up in discussion.

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, GLFTPS said:

You are confusing alignment with line of play.  The Rules specify that you cannot have a mark that assists in indicating the line of play. The Rules state that you may lie a club at your feet for alignment but remove it before playing a shot. There is no mention of a line in the dew created by lying the club down. I went through Rules training and passed the test and this was brought up in discussion.

So did I. Making a line in the dew is illegal.

I suggest you read more of the Decisions under 8-2.

Plus the line of play includes a distance on both sides, and a parallel line can also indicate the line as well since you know it passes through the ball.

[GLFTPS]

29 minutes ago, iacas said:

So did I. Making a line in the dew is illegal.

I suggest you read more of the Decisions under 8-2.

Plus the line of play includes a distance on both sides, and a parallel line can also indicate the line as well since you know it passes through the ball.

Go to "Definitions" and read what "Line of Play" is.

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, GLFTPS said:

Go to "Definitions" and read what "Line of Play" is.

I did. It includes a reasonable distance on either side. Plus, as I said, if you draw a parallel line, you are still indicating the line of play.

Definition:

Quote

The “line of play” is the direction that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke, plus a reasonable distance on either side of the intended direction. The line of playextends vertically upwards from the ground, but does not extend beyond thehole.

Decision 8-2a/1 talks about a club placed parallel to the line of play to align the feet and is illegal. It sounds like in your opinion leaving the club there should be legal.