"Playing From a Position" à la Jim Venetos

[RussUK]

A friend of mine told me the other day that he had decided to take up golf which is great. Now, im happy to give him tips on how to do it on the cheap (balls, shoes, clubs etc.) but i have always said i wouldnt give him swing advice as it wouldnt seem right.

Anyway, he sends me a very excited text" Russ, i have just seen this bloke on the net with a fool proof swing, check him out he's call Jim Venetos"

I humoured him and took a look. Some of you may have seen him. He presets, as he puts it "setup, backswing and impact and plays from a position" by pivotiing on to his lead foot then swings his arms with no lower body movement. He wants about 85% weight on the lead foot. 

Im happy working on my center pivot swing and thanks to explanation of pressure by @iacas its going quite well

My mate kept on at me to have a look so to shut him up i tried it. Put it this way, contact was easy and power seemed ok, but holy crap, the amount of pressure it puts on the left hip was imense and i still aching!

I dont want to tell him not to use it if it works....but..... could the pivot/twist onto the lead foot then the lack of "give" during the swing cause pain in the hip? 

[iacas]

My thoughts, in brief:

Not a bad plan if you want to become quasi-proficient faster. Especially if you can swing your arms fast with little body motion. Without hip turn, he also gets very little shoulder turn.

A bad plan, though, if you want to learn to play your best golf. This will most likely install a ceiling on your improvement, and then you're going to struggle when you start to add in the more traditional components to the golf swing.

And the swing isn't foolproof. You can still move around a little. You can still flip your wrists. You can still toe it, shank it, chunk it, blade it… Pull-hook it, etc.

Kinda depends on your goals in golf. If you just want to get proficient and then stay at that level, go for it. If you want to be as good as you can, there's a reason the more traditional components exist in the swing.

@RussUK, you don't have a Member Swing thread. You - and your new friend - should start one. Even if he wants to use this method of swinging, people can respect that.

https://jimvenetosgolfacademy.com

Also, this looks a lot like the Kiran Kanwar swing. The "Minimalist Golf Swing."

Except that she wants (but never seems to actually achieve) "no wrist hinge."

[Vinny Cap]

The Venetos swing hurt my back just watching it.

42 minutes ago, iacas said:

You can still flip your wrists. You can still toe it, shank it, chunk it, blade it… Pull-hook it, etc.

This is all I thought of when trying the swing out.  To each his own!

[RussUK]

58 minutes ago, iacas said:

My thoughts, in brief:

Not a bad plan if you want to become quasi-proficient faster. Especially if you can swing your arms fast with little body motion. Without hip turn, he also gets very little shoulder turn.

A bad plan, though, if you want to learn to play your best golf. This will most likely install a ceiling on your improvement, and then you're going to struggle when you start to add in the more traditional components to the golf swing.

And the swing isn't foolproof. You can still move around a little. You can still flip your wrists. You can still toe it, shank it, chunk it, blade it… Pull-hook it, etc.

Kinda depends on your goals in golf. If you just want to get proficient and then stay at that level, go for it. If you want to be as good as you can, there's a reason the more traditional components exist in the swing.

@RussUK, you don't have a Member Swing thread. You - and your new friend - should start one. Even if he wants to use this method of swinging, people can respect that.

https://jimvenetosgolfacademy.com

Also, this looks a lot like the Kiran Kanwar swing. The "Minimalist Golf Swing."

Except that she wants (but never seems to actually achieve) "no wrist hinge."

Thanks @iacas. I plan on starting a swing thread once the weather here improves and time allows me to get out (christmas is fast approaching, cue the family visits!). My friend (not new, known him for a good few years, but new he's new to golf) basically wants to get out and enjoy golf so, like you said, it "may" help in improve to a degree and if he chooses to use it then fair play plus another person to golf with.

I can understand why a swing like this is tempting for some (i have dabbled with the weird and wonderful in the past), when you see the guy using it it looks so simple. Doesnt show you the potential problems, like you mentioned above.

I googled the swing and a number of people on forums said they struggled with two main things, hooking and lead hip fatigue/pain. For the former, Jim Venetos recommends users moved to better player irons, regardless of how long they have been playing, to stop hooking by decreased offset.

On a seperate point. He reckons the power comes from the shaft flexing. What is your opinion?

 

[iacas]

51 minutes ago, RussUK said:

I googled the swing and a number of people on forums said they struggled with two main things, hooking and lead hip fatigue/pain. For the former, Jim Venetos recommends users moved to better player irons, regardless of how long they have been playing, to stop hooking by decreased offset.

Decreased offset has almost nothing to do with it.

Offset, I strongly believe, helps players who slice because it simply helps them line up farther to the left. But you can aim them right if you look at the grooves or whatever to line them up.

51 minutes ago, RussUK said:

On a seperate point. He reckons the power comes from the shaft flexing. What is your opinion?

That has almost nothing to do with it. Shaft flexing "helps" but ultimately it's how fast you can swing the clubhead. I could flex the heck out of a shaft and let it kick into the golf ball… and I might get a good chip length shot out of it.

[Patch]

The video of Venetos looks alot like one of my practice regimine swings. I get into my set up, address position, then work on 1/2, 3/4, and full swings from a set position at the end of my back swing. 

Not only does it help me with my club swing, it helps me work on my legs, and hip movements in a slow motion sort of way. 

[RussUK]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

Decreased offset has almost nothing to do with it.

Offset, I strongly believe, helps players who slice because it simply helps them line up farther to the left. But you can aim them right if you look at the grooves or whatever to line them up.

That has almost nothing to do with it. Shaft flexing "helps" but ultimately it's how fast you can swing the clubhead. I could flex the heck out of a shaft and let it kick into the golf ball… and I might get a good chip length shot out of it.

Thanks Erik, sounded a little far fetched tbh. 

in regards to a swing thread, are we ok with mobile phone vids?

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, RussUK said:

in regards to a swing thread, are we ok with mobile phone vids?

Yes, particularly if they're high speed.

https://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing

[natureboy]

Might be okay place to start for an absolute beginner just to get the feel for how the arms and wrists work and take out some moving parts initially that would be added in over time?

Seems to help a less skilled player more easily avoid a spin-out, achieve a hands ahead of the ball impact position and possibly cleaner contact, which can add some yards.

[JonMA1]

I was using a similar method last year for gap wedge, pitching wedge and 9 iron shots. It provided accuracy and clean contact with little loss of distance vs a full swing with those clubs... for a while.

As I see it, the trouble with any swing - regardless of how simple - is that there's always a way to screw it up. What ended up happening is that even though the weight started forward, I'd unknowingly slide the weight back just enough to throw everything off.

Overall, I don't think there's anything wrong with experimenting with unconventional instruction. It hasn't worked out well for me, but neither has conventional instruction.

[chilepepper]

It looks like that abbreviated follow through would be a distance killer. The whole thing looks like a 3/4 swing

[Baba]

It's really easy for everyone to dismiss Jim's methodology.

Here's what I have been through.

I play to around 10-12.

Whenever I play a tournament I play to 18+

I struggle with atleast 1 triple and a couple of double bogeys every round.

In my mind I am way better than I play but lack consistency.

Am good at chipping and have really improved my putting using an unconventional method.

What I figured was my long distance wood/iron play completely lacked consistency. And as the round came to close I would get worse.

Also I would every now and then hit weak fades with my woods, lack consistency with my hybrids. Could never hit a 3,4,5 irons. But was good with my 8,9,pw.

Lastly I would have many swing thoughts which by the time came to hitting the ball I would lose steam.

Out of desperation to get rid of my over the top swing I came across jims YouTube video.

I tried it at the practice range gave me almost the same distance as my normal  swing but with a little more consistency on the first day itself.

I took it to the course.

I found the same distance with a huge jump in consistency and ball striking. My fault was  I still would fall back to my old method for a few shots. Over the years have come to realise that no matter who the coach is some of the things will work for you and some will not. I still use my old method for driving but from a 3 wood to a pitching wedge I find Jims method  great and a lot less strenuous on my hip and back.

Over a month am very impressed with the distances. It's increased by an iron. More than the distance  I find from a habitual slicer have been able to hit the ball straight. I get approximately 160 yards carry with my 7.

I've never hit my 3 wood so consistently as do now.  I do not use his methods for chipping or for putting.

What I am trying to say is whoever you maybe and if you been struggling this is worth a shot.

The golf swing is very complicated for most of us. The weight shift, the timing , the tempo, the positions etc. If this method  works for you you'll end of thanking Jim, if it doesn't you can always go back to your normal Swing.

I am going to work on Jim's swing till I know what's a keeper and what's not, as of now am just surprising alot of my friends with my shot making.

 

[Jim Venetos]

Hello all...I see you are chatting about the swing I teach. Based on some of your comments it's clear to me that you are misperceiving what I teach, which is understandable because what I teach is very different from traditional golf instruction. 

I'll say this briefly...

If you are experiencing any pain in the swing I teach, you are not properly executing the swing. The swing has been proven to be bio-mechanically sound by doctors at USC.

If you think this swing is only for beginners you are gravely mistaken. Every great ball striker on tour has always had a left dominant swing...from Bobby Jones to Nicklaus to Tiger at his best and now Finnau and Koepka. My system simply allows you, the general public and average golfer, to be able to experience this same skill. 

My only goal is to share and help those golfers who are tired of the inconsistencies, disappointments and physical pain of the traditional swing and are ready to move on to a logic based, universally applicable system that eliminates a slice and empowers you with the clarity and physical skill to hit a draw as your stock shot.

If you have any questions I'd be glad to answer them. Best of luck to all and Stay Still.

Jim

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, Jim Venetos said:

If you are experiencing any pain in the swing I teach, you are not properly executing the swing. The swing has been proven to be bio-mechanically sound by doctors at USC.

Jim, I'll give you some slack, but let's try to avoid stuff like this. At the end of the day these are still athletic movements, and people sometimes have pain writing with a pencil and paper, or walking, or doing anything with their shoulders, arms, backs, wrists, etc. It's quite possible that someone can have pain doing an athletic movement.

17 minutes ago, Jim Venetos said:

If you think this swing is only for beginners you are gravely mistaken. Every great ball striker on tour has always had a left dominant swing...from Bobby Jones to Nicklaus to Tiger at his best and now Finnau and Koepka. My system simply allows you, the general public and average golfer, to be able to experience this same skill.

Oh boy.

[Jim Venetos]

Iacas, is it not fair for me to respond with the knowledge I have from teaching this swing for 25 years or would you prefer I allow erroneous statements to be made? I stated that the swing is biomechanically sound. That means when executed properly the swing works in coordination with the body’s natural movements. 

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, Jim Venetos said:

I stated that the swing is biomechanically sound.

At the end of the day, any good golf swing is going to put stresses and strains on the body. It's a fairly violent action.

I'm not particularly interested in talking about "biomechanically sound" golf swings, in the sense that a bunch of golf swings have been deemed "biomechanically sound" by bunches of people with medical degrees, biomechanics degrees, etc.

Few of us here are medical doctors.

Some of us here, myself included, do know quite a bit about the golf swing. So let's stick to talking about that stuff, not medical stuff you can get a ton of people to say.

Hell, I know a guy who can't practice putting for more than about three minutes at a time because of the strain it puts on his lower back. That doesn't mean his putting stroke isn't "biomechanically sound."

[chspeed]

34 minutes ago, Jim Venetos said:

Iacas, is it not fair for me to respond with the knowledge I have from teaching this swing for 25 years or would you prefer I allow erroneous statements to be made? I stated that the swing is biomechanically sound. That means when executed properly the swing works in coordination with the body’s natural movements. 

Jim, I'm sure you're a nice guy, and may even be a good teacher, but most of us here have been around golf long enough to roll our eyes when he hear things like "what I teach is very different from traditional golf instruction" and "USC doctors" and "biomechnically sound".

Please save that pitch for late night TV. As @iacas said, we're here to talk golf.

Edited April 24, 2019 by chspeed
https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/mention-members/

[Jim Venetos]

Iacas, I simply responded to your claim that the swing I teach hurts the body. I'm not interested in a debate especially since you haven't tried the swing. I suggest to you if you are going to be involved in forums that discuss golf instruction maybe you should try the system before you knock it. 

Very best to you all and like I said, if you have a question I'm happy to answer it. My intention is simply to help golfers play better without the inconsistencies and undue stress on the body of the traditional swing.

Wishing you all stillness in your game and in your posts.

I think this video applies to this topic.