Playing Lesson or Range Time?

[Wanzo]

17 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

(One day, one or more of the kids will start wanting to golf all of the time and then it'll be off to the races!)

I'm in the exact same boat.  As a dad with 4 girls under age 9, I'm hoping and praying for this day soon.  Actually just got a couple more cheap junior clubs in the mail yesterday.  I leave kids putters and foam balls laying around the house hoping they start playing with them. unfortunately as of now, no real interest except when I take them to the course and let them drive the cart.

[GolfLug]

16 minutes ago, Wanzo said:

I'm in the exact same boat.  As a dad with 4 girls under age 9, I'm hoping and praying for this day soon.  Actually just got a couple more cheap junior clubs in the mail yesterday.  I leave kids putters and foam balls laying around the house hoping they start playing with them. unfortunately as of now, no real interest except when I take them to the course and let them drive the cart.

Holy granola!!...... Awesome!!

[dkolo]

On 12/22/2016 at 5:58 AM, RandallT said:

I am not an instructor, but for the past couple years, I've been getting a bit more serious about learning via video lessons. Here are my thoughts:

1. For a new player who is anything higher than, say, a 10 handicap- I'd think the default position for an instructor is to work significantly on the full swing- both driver and irons. Fix the swing problems. That will get you to a point where golf is more fun- hitting greens or getting near them consistently. Yes, there's short game and putting work that could be done too, but no huge need to do an assessment on course.
2. As you get down to lower handicap players, the more fine tuning is involved, and perhaps a coach can help identify a targeted spot for improvement. BUT. Even then, playing a single round is anecdotal. If you are just there to analyze their swing fundamentals for each skill area, then you could just do that in the practice area.
3. To assess a player's putting, you could just give them an assignment. Tell them to go off and play "18 holes" on the practice green with representative putt lengths people see on the course (average proximity of 17ft-ish, a few putts well beyond that, but over half under 15ft). Then just do a strokes gained analysis of that. Heck, you could give them 2 "rounds" to do, and have them tell you their total putts.
4. Ditto for short game. I'd think you could give them some assessment they could go do, and you could score them. Plus, you could just watch them do a few different style shots and likely know right away if their technique is wildly off.
5. Plus, playing a round with them would cost a lot and take a long time, wouldn't it? 
6. If the cost and time involved is reasonable for everyone, I think playing a round would be the best way to truly know the player (keeping in mind the anecdotal nature of one round). Getting out and playing a round with someone is a great experience. Not even for just sizing up the golf skills- but for getting a sense of their personality and how they deal with adversity. All that intangible stuff that may or may not help an instructor, but it's a way to get to the person in a way that hanging out on the practice tee isn't.

Anyway, I'm more on the stats geek side of things, so I know what I'd do. I get people to assess their rounds all the time. I see crazy rounds sometimes that don't fit their profile. I see people who are inaccurate with their feel on their strength/weakness. So I like to do this for multiple rounds and average them out:

They simply fill out their distance to the hole and their lie for the start of every shot. Everything else calculates. Gives you a sense of their blow up holes, how consistently they can get on or near the green, etc. Visually you see their trouble with the yellow and red shades. You can easily spot how much they putt with the green cells. Plus, you get this, derived from PGA data found here:

Instant assessment.

Absolutely. The biggest reason why I persist with game golf is so that I have a better idea of where I need to improve in the future. The rich data would be great to show an instructor before a lesson or at least use it as a guide for what you ask to work on. 

[Club Rat]

23 hours ago, Wanzo said:

unfortunately as of now, no real interest

Check with the junior programs at your club, Winghaven's program has over 160 kids and kids often become more enthuse when with other kids.
The program introduces golf to kids at various levels and teaches them many aspects other than just a swing.
Kids start in 3-hole (short or long family tees) and progress to 5-hole in the beginning. Afterwards they usually move to nine holes.
The program is 6 weeks with play on course on Tuesday evenings and clinics on Thursday's during the day.
They have group clinics with set times, usually one hour.
They also need Dads to help keep score which allows you to observe and enjoy the activities along with them.
 

[Wanzo]

41 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

Check with the junior programs at your club, Winghaven's program has over 160 kids and kids often become more enthuse when with other kids.
The program introduces golf to kids at various levels and teaches them many aspects other than just a swing.
Kids start in 3-hole (short or long family tees) and progress to 5-hole in the beginning. Afterwards they usually move to nine holes.
The program is 6 weeks with play on course on Tuesday evenings and clinics on Thursday's during the day.
They have group clinics with set times, usually one hour.
They also need Dads to help keep score which allows you to observe and enjoy the activities along with them.
 

Yeah,that sounds like a good program. I think our club has something, and I need to check it out this year.  Last year I had our older two (8 and 6) go to a summer golf camp for girls where they just went one morning a week for about 2 hours for 6 weeks or something.  they really liked that.  I'm just hesitant to push it on them, I really want them to like it.  But I am going to try to expose them to it more this year, take them with me to the course and let them drive the cart etc..  I might try to have them take a group lesson or something, instruction just seems to work better coming from someone other than dad.  Thanks for the reply.

[The Recreational Golfer]

I have playing lessons every year. I have a good idea how to hit the basic shots. In playing lessons I learn how to hit unusual shots so there isn't a problem the course can give me that I don't have a solution for. Still working on that, probably always will, but these lessons pay off in spades.

[Blackjack Don]

Please expand. Details. What have you learned? How many times have you had a playing lesson? What are your goals when you take a lesson? This sounds interesting. I'm a long way from that point, but I'd like to take the look ahead. This isn't something I've seen much if at all in the literature.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Blackjack Don - the first playing lesson I ever had consisted of going out to the course to places where I had run into trouble because I didn't know what shot to play from there (shots around the green, mainly). I would drop a ball and ask the pro, what shot do I hit and how do I hit it?  I still do that. In another playing lesson I learned how to hit off the fairway from uneven lies -- there's a lot to that that you would never figure out yourself.

Once you have learned the basic skills of golf, getting better involves learning more shots so you don't lose a stroke or two because you got into a spot where you had no idea what to do.

 

[Blackjack Don]

8 minutes ago, The Recreational Golfer said:

In another playing lesson I learned how to hit off the fairway from uneven lies -- there's a lot to that that you would never figure out yourself.

I agree. This is my opportunity to learn from someone who has figured it out. This skips a whole bunch of steps for me. What have you learned? How long did it take you? Did you figure something out, only to find out later it was wrong?

I heard a pro say that his pro told him to keep the names and addresses of everyone he teaches in the beginning, so he could go back and send them apologies for all he told them he's now learned was wrong. No doubt you've learned some of those along the way.

Consider this a virtual playing lesson, so when I find one of these lessons or skills I can say "I remember when The Recreational Golfer told us about this." That would make this a valuable topic, even more valuable. Good job. Sincerely.

Don

[Rainmaker]

Interesting topic and I definitely fall on the side of practice over playing . .as I did in the range time vs playing lesson thread, too.  

Here's the thing . . .imo - unless you've got a pretty good swing you're not really playing golf.  Golf has got to be the hardest game to learn how to play as well as having the largest number of participants who can't actually play the game.  Shooting 95?  Not playing golf.  I'm not saying you're not having a good time, not enjoying fresh air and camaraderie, etc . .but you're not playing the game of golf.  

A real good golfer once said to me - "To be able to play golf, you've got to do 2 things . .control your distance and control your spin.  If you're not doing those things . .what are you doing"? 

So, in my view, if you want to actually play golf . .you want to improve . .you need to practice way more than you need to play.  There probably comes a time . .when you're handicap is in the high single digits, perhaps . .that more playing time starts to become really important to keep improving (unless, of course, you have access to a killer practice facility with sand traps and practice holes, etc)...until then I believe you should practice as much as possible (as much as your interest level allows, anyway).   

Just the opinion of a guy who can't play golf . . .your mileage may vary.