Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[MissouriHack]

We still irrigate here, but I think the drought will affect us pretty soon. You might be right that the fairways will dry up in the summer for super long drives. I hope you are wrong, though. We need a lot more rain. This goes for all of CA and OR.

I hope I'm wrong too.

[billchao]

I was really speaking more to chipping. I don't really have many thoughts on the longer shots. But with chipping, I feel like I see a lot of guys trying to employ a bunch of techniques and ball positions etc and doing a decent amount of mis hitting. I feel like if they went sqare face, mid stance, and same technique every time, they would mis hit less. I might have misunderstood what was originally meant by short game. When I originally read it, I was thinking of around the greens.

Ah, ok. When I read short game, I think of everything inside of 100 yards. Most of that is pitching technique.

Honestly, I rarely chip, anyway. I have much more control over where the ball will go with a pitch, even from around the greens. Putting is also a good option, too, if it's available.

I never understood the idea of chipping on with a 7i, just on the green, and letting it roll 40' to the hole. I'd have to read the entire length of the green and my landing area to make sure the ball gets where I want it to go. Why not just pitch it 35' and only have to worry about the last five?

[Meltdwhiskey]

[QUOTE name="Meltdwhiskey" url="/t/70872/bogey-golfer-only-thread-handicap-index-from-16-22-what-are-you-going-through-working-on-sob-stories/576#post_945597"] I was really speaking more to chipping. I don't really have many thoughts on the longer shots. But with chipping, I feel like I see a lot of guys trying to employ a bunch of techniques and ball positions etc and doing a decent amount of mis hitting. I feel like if they went sqare face, mid stance, and same technique every time, they would mis hit less. I might have misunderstood what was originally meant by short game. When I originally read it, I was thinking of around the greens.[/QUOTE] I never understood the idea of chipping on with a 7i, just on the green, and letting it roll 40' to the hole. I'd have to read the entire length of the green and my landing area to make sure the ball gets where I want it to go. Why not just pitch it 35' and only have to worry about the last five?

That is a great point. I tend to agree with you. But I've never once heard that advocated. Every tip you hear from the tv says to get the ball back on the ground as soon as possible.

[billchao]

That is a great point. I tend to agree with you. But I've never once heard that advocated. Every tip you hear from the tv says to get the ball back on the ground as soon as possible.

Yea, and from the magazines, too. I don't know, it may just be me, but I have always found that I have a harder time judging how much roll I'm going to get as opposed to just landing it closer to the pin.

[MissouriHack]

I never understood the idea of chipping on with a 7i, just on the green, and letting it roll 40' to the hole. I'd have to read the entire length of the green and my landing area to make sure the ball gets where I want it to go. Why not just pitch it 35' and only have to worry about the last five?

Im under the impression that the stroke for a chip shot is shorter thats why it may be recommended. So high handicappers that have problems with their ball striking have less of a chance screwing it up. Im with you though the swing might be easier but you have to read more of the green. So its kind of a wash for me. I do play at a links style course and there are times I have hit a 7i chip from 80 yards out running it up too a front pin. but once the ball hits the ground and starts rolling it has a mind of its own.

[treebound]

I'm going to have to read thru this thread when I'm back on a computer and not using the phone browser, seems like an interesting discussion. Years ago when I played frequently my high scores were due to mistakes and bad shots and inconsistency.

[rkim291968]

Originally Posted by billchao

I never understood the idea of chipping on with a 7i, just on the green, and letting it roll 40' to the hole.

I use 9i to chip putt.  Instead of putting off green, I use 9i to get over the rough and roll on green.  It takes the rough's condition out of equation.  One could use 7i for the same reason.  With a little bit of practice, I find using 9i (or less lofted iron) is more accurate than using putter or to pitch.   It's the most recent thing I added to my short game.

[uno6518]

Let's start a series of posts with a set of goals that we think we need for each of us to get to single digits or just out of this particular thread. (Then we could start a new one?)

We all have ideas on getting there, we could start sharing them and picking them apart into realistic and attainable goals.

1) Keep drilling keys 1 and 2 to get them at or over 0.75, all the time. Every practice session will prioritize drills for these keys. Especially 2...I think. Working on drills for 1 and 2 for the last 2.5 months of last year got me more improvement than the 9 months before of just "tinkering" whenever I thought something was wrong.

2) Improve pitching from 25-40 yards out. I only have a 58 wedge, so hopefully making an investment in a nice 54 with plenty of bounce will help, as the pitching technique from this site that I've been working on gets tough with the 58 when I stretch out to 40 yards.

3) Improve lag putting. For this, I want to make a point to practice distance entirely separate from reading greens and the stroke itself. I've been doing this for the last two months, and it has helped, but obviously more work to do. MAYBE I can save some money and also take an aimpoint course this year--we'll see.

Edit:

I should add that this is certainly not with the expectation of getting to single digit anytime soon, but just to improve score-wise from the high 90's consistently right now, to low 90's/high 80's this year. I also will start tracking stats and make realistic goals to shoot for there as well.

[billchao]

Im under the impression that the stroke for a chip shot is shorter thats why it may be recommended. So high handicappers that have problems with their ball striking have less of a chance screwing it up. Im with you though the swing might be easier but you have to read more of the green. So its kind of a wash for me. I do play at a links style course and there are times I have hit a 7i chip from 80 yards out running it up too a front pin. but once the ball hits the ground and starts rolling it has a mind of its own.

That's what I'm thinking, too. It just doesn't seem to make sense, to me. You'd probably have to spend as much time learning green speeds, rollout, and club selection as you would if you just learned a better pitching technique, and the pitching motion is more versatile.

I use 9i to chip putt.  Instead of putting off green, I use 9i to get over the rough and roll on green.  It takes the rough's condition out of equation.  One could use 7i for the same reason.  With a little bit of practice, I find using 9i (or less lofted iron) is more accurate than using putter or to pitch.   It's the most recent thing I added to my short game.

That's the great thing about the short game: there's just so many ways to get it done. You've got your way, I've got my way, and as long as we're both comfortable and consistent, that's all you can really ask for. I like to pitch because I don't spend a lot of time practicing at a chipping green, so I don't get to practice rollout, but I do practice a lot in my backyard, so I'm confident in my landing areas.

BTW I don't think I've ever putt through rough, either. Is that really a viable option from the rough? I would think the putter head would get stuck in the grass.

[rkim291968]

BTW I don't think I've ever putt through rough, either. Is that really a viable option from the rough? I would think the putter head would get stuck in the grass.

I meant to say through "first cut."   But on some not so well maintained courses, 1st cut = rough.

[CR McDivot]

Thoughts on first round of 2014...

Played Buffalo Run yesterday, course was in pretty rough condition - fairways dormant, wet; greens dormant, moist and goose abused. Generally in much worse shape than my home course of Riverdale, but we could not get a tee time on short notice that fit at home (so much for the decline of golf. Well managed, maintained, and reasonably priced courses are doing quite well, thank you).

The Run had a cart path only rule that considerably slowed the game (not so much for my partner Sefa and I as we are confirmed walkers, as for the two cart aficionados we were paired with) resulting in a painfully slow 5 hour round. Probably the path only rule was unavoidable in order to preserve what was left of a usually lush but currently suffering course.

Both Sefa and I were very rusty not having played since last November and our scores were a good 8 strokes off of our typical round at Buffalo Run.

A few interesting notes:

1. Sefa scored 5 points over me (a little more than his usual 1 or 2 better).

2. Both of us stunk up the greens with 3 putts, each with a disgusting 39 putts!

3. Fairways 100% for me, 63.6% for Sefa.

4. GIR 11% for me, 17% for Sefa.

What was the issue?

My drives were as long or longer than Sefa's, and a lot more accurate. We both stunk up the greens, but Sefa hit one more in regulation.

In your opinion, how is it Sefa came in 5 up?

[rkim291968]

I am guessing Sefa had a better final approach (OB, hazards?) & chipping/pitching (duffs) game.

[inthehole]

I never understood the idea of chipping on with a 7i, just on the green, and letting it roll 40' to the hole. I'd have to read the entire length of the green and my landing area to make sure the ball gets where I want it to go. Why not just pitch it 35' and only have to worry about the last five?

I think the reason most feel chipping is easier than pitching is that it requires a much less forceful stroke.   The short stroke length for a chip lends itself to a miss not being as potentially catastrophic as with a pitch.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billchao

I never understood the idea of chipping on with a 7i, just on the green, and letting it roll 40' to the hole. I'd have to read the entire length of the green and my landing area to make sure the ball gets where I want it to go. Why not just pitch it 35' and only have to worry about the last five?

I think the reason most feel chipping is easier than pitching is that it requires a much less forceful stroke.   The short stroke length for a chip lends itself to a miss not being as potentially catastrophic as with a pitch.

I am just learning to pace off my chips, where it's not obvious how far I am. This helps a lot, and is needed for method of 12.

Pitch shots are hard to pace off, but they are the same stroke as my chips up to 50 yards with no wrist break. 60 to 80 are lob wedge distances. 90 to 110 are perfect 52 degree distances.

The feel of a full swing really gives me confidence, even if I don't break my wrists for the pitch/chip distances. What are your feelings?

[Meltdwhiskey]

Thoughts on first round of 2014...

Played Buffalo Run yesterday, course was in pretty rough condition - fairways dormant, wet; greens dormant, moist and goose abused. Generally in much worse shape than my home course of Riverdale, but we could not get a tee time on short notice that fit at home (so much for the decline of golf. Well managed, maintained, and reasonably priced courses are doing quite well, thank you).

The Run had a cart path only rule that considerably slowed the game (not so much for my partner Sefa and I as we are confirmed walkers, as for the two cart aficionados we were paired with) resulting in a painfully slow 5 hour round. Probably the path only rule was unavoidable in order to preserve what was left of a usually lush but currently suffering course.

Both Sefa and I were very rusty not having played since last November and our scores were a good 8 strokes off of our typical round at Buffalo Run.

A few interesting notes:

1. Sefa scored 5 points over me (a little more than his usual 1 or 2 better).

2. Both of us stunk up the greens with 3 putts, each with a disgusting 39 putts!

3. Fairways 100% for me, 63.6% for Sefa.

4. GIR 11% for me, 17% for Sefa.

What was the issue?

My drives were as long or longer than Sefa's, and a lot more accurate. We both stunk up the greens, but Sefa hit one more in regulation.

In your opinion, how is it Sefa came in 5 up?

There was in interesting article in one of the golf magazines last month about this.  It was a real statistical analysis - kind of like the stuff Iacas likes to throw at us.  In the article, they kinda held up the approach game as the silent assassin in scoring.  And guess who was #1 on tour at it?

I'm not sure that is what happened with you and Sefa, but he did hit one more green in regulation.  He might have hit his approaches closer even though they weren't on the green giving himself a better chance at up and down than you - notably if he three putted that extra GIR.  Your 100% fairways is awesome - but that stat only sets up a better chance at the GIR stat - which is more important.  He hit more greens despite shorter and less accurate drives, which might have made the difference.

That is an interesting study.  It is good  you had his stats and yours.

[Lihu]

Thoughts on first round of 2014...

Played Buffalo Run yesterday, course was in pretty rough condition - fairways dormant, wet; greens dormant, moist and goose abused. Generally in much worse shape than my home course of Riverdale, but we could not get a tee time on short notice that fit at home (so much for the decline of golf. Well managed, maintained, and reasonably priced courses are doing quite well, thank you).

The Run had a cart path only rule that considerably slowed the game (not so much for my partner Sefa and I as we are confirmed walkers, as for the two cart aficionados we were paired with) resulting in a painfully slow 5 hour round. Probably the path only rule was unavoidable in order to preserve what was left of a usually lush but currently suffering course.

Both Sefa and I were very rusty not having played since last November and our scores were a good 8 strokes off of our typical round at Buffalo Run.

A few interesting notes:

1. Sefa scored 5 points over me (a little more than his usual 1 or 2 better).

2. Both of us stunk up the greens with 3 putts, each with a disgusting 39 putts!

3. Fairways 100% for me, 63.6% for Sefa.

4. GIR 11% for me, 17% for Sefa.

What was the issue?

My drives were as long or longer than Sefa's, and a lot more accurate. We both stunk up the greens, but Sefa hit one more in regulation.

In your opinion, how is it Sefa came in 5 up?

Less pressure off the tee shot, and a better attitude?

[billchao]

In your opinion, how is it Sefa came in 5 up?

This:

I am guessing Sefa had a better final approach (OB, hazards?) & chipping/pitching (duffs) game.

The difference in the scores lie in the stats you did not post.

---

I think the reason most feel chipping is easier than pitching is that it requires a much less forceful stroke.   The short stroke length for a chip lends itself to a miss not being as potentially catastrophic as with a pitch.

I'll concede that a chip is a shorter stroke and thus less susceptible to error from a mechanical aspect. However, a chip uses the leading edge, making it less forgiving than a pitch.

Also, again, a chip requires you to read the green, and IMO it is harder to control distance than a pitch. I think I mentioned it before, but if a chip is an available option, then a putt probably is, too, so I'd just putt. With pitching, it's almost like throwing darts. If I pick my landing area right, I'll almost never blow it by the hole.

[CR McDivot]

In your opinion, how is it Sefa came in 5 up?

Sefa had NO penalties, I had one... lost to a lateral water hazard from drawing my new 3 wood (combined with her increased distance).

Sefa was much cleaner on his irons, from 5I through wedges, led to less strokes required on Buffalo's long par 4s. His irons on the par 3s were also more accurate than mine, though I did hit the fringe (with same 3 wood) on the notorious 13th http://thesandtrap.com/t/70872/bogey-golfer-only-thread-handicap-index-from-16-22-what-are-you-going-through-working-on-sob-stories/126#post_917632 that often bites us. Sefa's 5 wood left him with a downhill lie from the back. Neither of our chips on this hole helped either of us.

My poor iron play is IMHO the cause of my undoing in this case.

Funny thing is that at practice the day before this round my irons were hot, and my driver stunk. My putting was fair to good on the much better greens at the home course.

Sometimes golf is a cruel mistress... particularly when you have ignored her for a while!