It's All About the Ball - and Ego

[Blackjack Don]

Was watching the SBS broadcast and they put up a stat sheet on top 10 and driving distance. One of the commentators said what he doesn't like is driving accuracy has no relevance anymore. Nobilo said we'd have to go back to US Open-type conditions.

NO! Slow down the tour balls!

If the consumers--yes, us peons--want to play like the pros, then get good enough to play their balls. Titleist Prov V1x would then be impossible for me to hit. (Hell, I hit it now and it feels like hitting a rock.) Make it go 250. I can hit a soft ball 250, some days. If I tried to hit a new tour ball, I'd be lucky to get a buck-fifty. This would have many good downstream effects, I believe.

But there is ego involved, isn't there. The stats back up the fact that driving distance on the tour is JOB #1. They can brag about being the longest hitter, be the big man. But being the best putter--A. is a woosy thing, and B. evokes an image of the feminine--women can putt as well as men. So driving is manly, so butch! 

Gimme a break. Golf used to be hard. It still is for me. Make it hard for them, too. Make Par Important Again. Whining babies.

 :rofl:

[David in FL]

It is hard.  They're just really good.  

If someone wants to see the gap between the pros and themselves close, all they have to do is get better.

[CarlSpackler]

How do you propose limiting the tour balls and why would you want to do that? Even with "limited balls", the player who hits it the farthest is going to have an advantage...

[DaveP043]

17 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

But there is ego involved, isn't there. The stats back up the fact that driving distance on the tour is JOB #1. They can brag about being the longest hitter, be the big man. But being the best putter--A. is a woosy thing, and B. evokes an image of the feminine--women can putt as well as men. So driving is manly, so butch! 

Its not ego, its money.  I'm pretty sure that the statistics show that hitting it long, and in play, gives a player an advantage in scoring better.  Not that shorter hitters can't do well, but they're at a disadvantage.  

I'd have no problem with the introduction of a tour-only ball that doesn't go as far, but that means setting up separate rules for that set of golfers, as compared with the rest of the golfers in the world, and it will never happen.  And as @CarlSpackler  just said, the longer hitters will remain the longer hitters, and have the same relative advantage they have now.  

[Blackjack Don]

Is driver/lob wedge what we want to see?

How else does the Tour bring driving accuracy up in importance besides letting the rough grow six inches? They are already playing on a course I couldn't shoot 200 on. Why not a shorter ball?

It just seems to me that the game has changed because of technology, but not so much getting the ball in the hole. Now, it seems that driving is the game, and the rest of it is a pain in the ass. A putt from an inch away has always been a pain in the ass, but that's golf. Golf itself is the pain in the ass we love. We love smashing drives on the range. The pros are no different. But is it still golf, or a different game?

Further thought--

Let's say the "average" weekend golfer hits a 7 iron 150 yards. The average tour player might hit a sand wedge this far? Yet the average golfer compares himself to par. The only way I can see to make the game seem "fair" is to reverse the technology. De-tune the golf ball is a step.

Nicklaus has been saying that lengthening golf courses is suicide. Real estate is expensive. Maintenance is not only expensive, but causes non-golfers to think of wasting water. Slowing the ball down for pros is a good start.

It's only an opinion, or a good suggestion to problems we all agree are problems.

[CarlSpackler]

1 minute ago, Blackjack Don said:

Is driver/lob wedge what we want to see?

How else does the Tour bring driving accuracy up in importance besides letting the rough grow six inches? They are already playing on a course I couldn't shoot 200 on. Why not a shorter ball?

It just seems to me that the game has changed because of technology, but not so much getting the ball in the hole. Now, it seems that driving is the game, and the rest of it is a pain in the ass. A putt from an inch away has always been a pain in the ass, but that's golf. Golf itself is the pain in the ass we love. We love smashing drives on the range. The pros are no different. But is it still golf, or a different game?

Even in the days of Jack and Arnie, getting the ball closer to the hole with each shot makes the next shot easier. It's the same game assuming someone follows the rules.

[DaveP043]

Golf has always changed, and will continue to change.  At one time, 90 was a great score.  I'd bet that every generation has railed against changes that seemingly make golf easier for the next generation.  Gutta percha balls replacing featheries, steel shafts replacing hickory, and OMG you can now clean your ball any time you're on the putting green!  Change isn't new, and change isn't going to stop happening.  It was golf in the 1700's, and its still golf in 2017.  

[Braivo]

24 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Golf has always changed, and will continue to change.  At one time, 90 was a great score.  I'd bet that every generation has railed against changes that seemingly make golf easier for the next generation.  Gutta percha balls replacing featheries, steel shafts replacing hickory, and OMG you can now clean your ball any time you're on the putting green!  Change isn't new, and change isn't going to stop happening.  It was golf in the 1700's, and its still golf in 2017.  

I am not opposed to a change in the rules that limits ball flight. Let's say you reduced the distance a ball traveled by 10% by simply redesigning them. This would allow golf courses to occupy 10% less land, theoretically. As golf struggles to catch on in more populated urban areas, anything that makes the game more cost effective is a win. I would never suggest to have a different set of rules for pros, I would like this change to be universal. At the tour level they wouldn't have to modify courses to increase length as much. I wouldn't mind seeing the game be less dominated by the biggest hitters. 

[DaveP043]

Just now, Braivo said:

I am not opposed to a change in the rules that limits ball flight. Let's say you reduced the distance a ball traveled by 10% by simply redesigning them. This would allow golf courses to occupy 10% less land, theoretically. As golf struggles to catch on in more populated urban areas, anything that makes the game more cost effective is a win. I would never suggest to have a different set of rules for pros, I would like this change to be universal. At the tour level they wouldn't have to modify courses to increase length as much. I wouldn't mind seeing the game be less dominated by the biggest hitters. 

They have already instituted changes that limit distance, both for balls and for clubheads.  What they haven't done is to roll back some of the increases that occurred prior to the distance limiting rules.  I'd agree that there shouldn't be separate requirements for a small group of golfers (tour players) as compared with the rest of golfers.  But I'd still bet that big hitters will always have some advantage over shorter hitters, even with more severe distance limitations in place.

[Blackjack Don]

There already are differences. They play on a different course than the amateur. They play different clubs and balls, too. Can a twenty handicapper play an V1x? Really?

I'll betcha they changed the rules about lift-and-clean and raking sand traps because pros wanted perfect conditions which would allow them to break par. Mud on my ball isn't going to lower my handicap. Raking a sand trap isn't going to make me a better sandbox player. They change things for pros. So make par be par. You either make holes longer--which they do--or they shorten the ball. How are they going to make driving accuracy improve? Again, changing the course so it's harder for the pros. Which would be impossible for the rest of us. They have different rules for pros than the rest of us.

Why not have a ball a pro can hit 150 with a seven iron, and one the rest of us can hit 150 with a seven iron?

[DaveP043]

2 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

. They have different rules for pros than the rest of us.

The conditions are different.  The rules are the same.  I believe they should remain the same.  Nuf' said for now.

[Blackjack Don]

On 1/6/2017 at 1:43 PM, DaveP043 said:

The conditions are different.  The rules are the same.  I believe they should remain the same.  Nuf' said for now.

Okay, I submit the ball is a condition not a rule, unless they use the wrong ball, which would then make it a rule. Otherwise, the same conditions apply to all. By the way, don't they have rules about who can play?

Why not have a ball a pro hits 150 with a seven iron, and one the rest of us can hit 150 with a seven iron? 

Too many people out there are seeing this is a problem. Things are going to change. It's how much and when. Change is constant.

[CarlSpackler]

Should pro basketball players have a higher rim and larger ball? Should pro football players have to go 15 yards for a first down? Should we put something on the skate blades of pro hockey players to slow them down? Perhaps we should shrink the hole for pro golfers too. 

 

[DaveP043]

1 minute ago, Blackjack Don said:

Why not have a ball a pro hits 150 with a seven iron, and one the rest of us can hit 150 with a seven iron? 

Too many people out there are seeing this is a problem. Things are going to change. It's how much and when. Change is constant.

I agree, golf will continue to change, and the future certainly could hold greater limitations on distance.  I still prefer that we have one set of rules for all golfers.  If the ruling bodies want to roll back distance, do it for all golfers.  That certainly won't be popular, but in my opinion that would be the right way to do it.

[Blackjack Don]

Couldn't the PGA Tour decide this? Same rules for all who play in the tournament?

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Couldn't the PGA Tour decide this? Same rules for all who play in the tournament?

I imagine they could, if they wanted, and force all the manufacturers (read sponsors) to start new production lines for the PGA approved balls?  What are the chances that would happen?  

[Blackjack Don]

That's a different topic.

[boogielicious]

17 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Should pro basketball players have a higher rim and larger ball? Should pro football players have to go 15 yards for a first down? Should we put something on the skate blades of pro hockey players to slow them down? Perhaps we should shrink the hole for pro golfers too. 

 

Your team should! My team can stick with 10!

This topic has been beat to death in other threads. I recommend @Blackjack Don do a search for them.