Annoying head movement problem I can't seem to fix

[edhalsim]

Hi again,

Watching my swing on video I've noticed a bad habit I have with my head pulling back away from the ball on my downswing.  NOT UP, which I think most people struggle with, but back a good 6-8" (away from the ball, not away from the target).  A pro I've seen says it's because my left hip is spinning behind me;  if you draw a vertical line touching my butt at address at impact my left hip/butt cheek is well behind that line.  My misses are thin/toe shots and/or big/snap hooks (I have a tendency to flip/release my hands too quickly at impact).

I'd like some suggestions as to how I can address this as it's ingrained in my muscle memory.  I can't put my head against a wall and hit balls (obviously) and I don't have someone who I can ask to left me rest my head on their hand while I swing.

Thanks for your help. 

[Hatchman]

Did he mention a centered pivot or swaying?

[edhalsim]

6 minutes ago, Hatchman said:

Did he mention a centered pivot or swaying?

I don't believe I'm swaying, at least not during my backswing.  I get loaded up on the inside of my right foot pretty well.

[Hatchman]

Yea sorry, I think you said that or implied that.  Your head pulls directly away from the ball a few inches.

[saevel25]

38 minutes ago, edhalsim said:

I don't believe I'm swaying, at least not during my backswing.  I get loaded up on the inside of my right foot pretty well.

I would stay away from this feeling. This could mean you are swaying way too much and not turning correctly. That can impact how your head moves in the swing. 

I would reference back to what @mvmac mentioned in your My Swing thread. 

 

[Buckeyebowman]

I had to read your OP 3 times to, I think, get the gist of it. If I understand correctly, your head is moving back toward your heels? Is this what you mean by "NOT UP", as in standing up in the downswing?

If that's the case, I have to say that I don't think I've ever seen that before! Most guys who move their head around go up and down (bend over, stand up), or side to side (sway).

And though you can't hit shots with your head against a wall, you can "mimic" a swing doing so! Fold your arms across your chest and assume a golf stance with the top of your forehead against a wall. Go through a swing motion. It doesn't even have to be a full swing. Even moderate movement can help you learn the feeling of "staying where you are".

[Piz]

Like @Buckeyebowman I am having difficulty visualizing the movement you describe.  The only way I can move both my left buttock, and head, straight back is by sliding my left foot back a good distance.  In that scenario I am not turning my hips; but rather moving my feet from a square to very open position...during the (slow motion) down swing.  Does your stance begin, or wind up, open?

[edhalsim]

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I had to read your OP 3 times to, I think, get the gist of it. If I understand correctly, your head is moving back toward your heels? Is this what you mean by "NOT UP", as in standing up in the downswing?

Yes, correct.  Back toward my heels.

23 minutes ago, Piz said:

Like @Buckeyebowman I am having difficulty visualizing the movement you describe.  The only way I can move both my left buttock, and head, straight back is by sliding my left foot back a good distance.  In that scenario I am not turning my hips; but rather moving my feet from a square to very open position...during the (slow motion) down swing.  Does your stance begin, or wind up, open?

Here are some pictures at address and at impact.

 

[Bryan Kasper]

I would set up just a tad farther from the ball, i had this same issue and i moved a little farther away and the issue seems to be going away and i am staying in much better balance. Maybe thats too simple. 

[RH31]

I would try one or all of these;

Keep your weight on the inside of your feet throughout your swing

maintain your spine angle throughout your swing

focus on swinging slow enough that you can see the club impact the ball every time

when working on a new feel start off with 3/4 swings.......tempo

[colin007]

honestly, that looks like a real nice impact, slight EE.  i dont see much of an issue.

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, colin007 said:

honestly, that looks like a real nice impact, slight EE.  i dont see much of an issue.

Yeah, he's not losing hip depth so not 'standing up', but upper body looks a little less bent over (less side bend).

@edhalsim from a face on view would your head be moving toward the target, away from it, or staying in place?

[edhalsim]

Just now, natureboy said:

Yeah, he's not losing hip depth so not 'standing up', but upper body looks a little less bent over (less side bend).

@edhalsim from a face on view would your head be moving toward the target, away from it, or staying in place?

From face-on, it moves some back (away from the target), then it moves too far forward so that it gets ahead of the ball a bit.

I'm going to focus on trying to keep a steady head back and through and see if I can fix that.

[natureboy]

5 minutes ago, edhalsim said:

From face-on, it moves some back (away from the target), then it moves too far forward so that it gets ahead of the ball a bit.

I'm going to focus on trying to keep a steady head back and through and see if I can fix that.

I thought it might be moving a bit toward target through impact. That could explain part of the head moving away from the ball in the down the line view. Your whole upper spine may be turning toward the target slightly in concert with your hips. Maybe work on your ability to side bend more as you come through the ball?

[Buckeyebowman]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:26 PM, edhalsim said:

Yes, correct.  Back toward my heels.

Here are some pictures at address and at impact.

 

Very good pics, edhalsim! Here is my "inexpert" opinion.

Look at your feet! At "impact" (yes, the ball is foot or two off the clubface, but it's close enough), your right heel is nearly 2 inches off the ground and your left toe is pointing up in the air!

Looks like your lower body is getting ahead of your upper body. Try keeping your right heel on the ground until you strike the ball. Eventually you want your feet to attain the positions they have in your pics, just a little further on in the swing. Maybe when the club shaft has reached horizontal or a little higher.

I would like to see the position of your right foot at the top of your backswing. I'm guessing it could be rolled to the outside of your foot. RH31 had a point. It was none other than Nicklaus who said that golf is played on the insides of the feet!

[bm85]

2 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Try keeping your right heel on the ground until you strike the ball.

Why? My right foot comes off the ground, and while in a world of perfect swings you might have some point - spending time on our trail foot behavior seems quite low on the priority list.

My advice, and I'm no more qualified than anyone here, would be to work on rotating/pivoting better, and getting rid of that straight trail arm at impact.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 1/22/2017 at 9:36 PM, bm85 said:

Why? My right foot comes off the ground, and while in a world of perfect swings you might have some point - spending time on our trail foot behavior seems quite low on the priority list.

My advice, and I'm no more qualified than anyone here, would be to work on rotating/pivoting better, and getting rid of that straight trail arm at impact.

Thanks for your post. I'm guessing the pics are not of you! You're comments are well advised, for low handicappers and better! I don't see too many guys that I play with attaining such positions!

The straight trailing arm was exactly why I encouraged the OP to keep his right heel on the ground! Get your body too far out in front of those arm positions, and you got trouble!

We all aren't pros here. If we could all hit the positions your pic showed, we'd be out there earning hundreds of thousands a year!

[bm85]

Those pics actually are of me - taken in my dreams. Lol

That's Justin Thomas, and I wasn't advocating anyone trying to copy his positions, just that his foot is off the ground and he gets it done.

Perhaps I shouldn't have asserted it is unimportant to work on the trail foot - the golf swing is tricky, and heck if I know the ins and outs. It might very well help the OP to do so, as well as me.