Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[Nutsmacker]

3 hours ago, nevets88 said:

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2017/12/19/16796228/star-wars-the-last-jedi-admiral-ackbar-fan-expectations-canon-theories-rian-johnson

Well, I respect the veterans.  What can I say?  I don't care about what some blogger writes.  I am waiting for the back story on Admiral Ackbar

[Jack Watson]

I totally missed the fact that Rey has the original Jedi texts!

I am curious to see if my opinion changes somewhat on a second viewing.

I wasn’t worried much about Ackbar.  I think that kind of thing comes from the internet speculation types.  I don’t get into all that I just watch the movies.

[saevel25]

So it seems the internet has gone crazy over The Last Jedi. 

Apparently there has been internet petitions for Disney to remake the movie. People think Rian Johnson owes them an apology for the Last Jedi. 

Here is a part of Rian Johnson's response to the Twitter backlash he has seen with an interview with Business Insider. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-rian-johnson-interview-about-the-last-jedi-fan-backlash-2017-12

Quote

I'm aware through my own experience that, first of all, the fans are so passionate, they care so deeply — sometimes they care very violently at me on Twitter. But it's because they care about these things, and it hurts when you're expecting something specific and you don't get it from something that you love. It always hurts, so I don't take it personally if a fan reacts negatively and lashes out on me on Twitter. That's fine. It's my job to be there for that. Like you said, every fan has a list of stuff they want a "Star Wars" movie to be and they don't want a "Star Wars" movie to be. You're going to find very few fans out there whose lists line up.

And I also know the same way the original movies were personal for Lucas. Lucas never made a "Star Wars" movie by sitting down and thinking, "What do the fans want to see?" And I knew if I wrote wondering what the fans would want, as tempting as that is, it wouldn't work, because people would still be shouting at me, "F--- you, you ruined 'Star Wars,'" and I would make a bad movie. And ultimately, that's the one thing nobody wants.

 

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

I am waiting for the back story on Admiral Ackbar

Plan on waiting for awhile.

He had way, way, way less screen time than Ewoks. He had less screen time than Jabba the Hutt. Hell, he had less screen time than Pizza the Hutt in Space Balls.

Seems like a funny thing to choose to care about. He was a minor character. He never advanced the plot. They used him once for exposition, and that was about it.

[Nutsmacker]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Plan on waiting for awhile.

He had way, way, way less screen time than Ewoks. He had less screen time than Jabba the Hutt. Hell, he had less screen time than Pizza the Hutt in Space Balls.

Seems like a funny thing to choose to care about. He was a minor character. He never advanced the plot. They used him once for exposition, and that was about it.

Well, I am attempting to be a bit facetious about the character... It was a joke.  I certainly don't expect there to be a back story to an extremely minor character.    

[DeadMan]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

So it seems the internet has gone crazy over The Last Jedi. 

Apparently there has been internet petitions for Disney to remake the movie. People think Rian Johnson owes them an apology for the Last Jedi. 

Here is a part of Rian Johnson's response to the Twitter backlash he has seen with an interview with Business Insider. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-rian-johnson-interview-about-the-last-jedi-fan-backlash-2017-12

 

I find this ridiculous and understandable at the same time. On the one hand, get over yourself.

On the other hand, I do get some of the frustration. First, Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back are two legitimately great movies. Star Wars was groundbreaking at the time, and the special effects were out of this world (compare the special effects of it to a Star Trek movie of the time ... there's no comparison). And then you follow it up with one of the best movies of all time - and my personal favorite - in Empire. Since then, the rest of the movies haven't touched that standard. The closet, in my view, was Rogue One. TFA and TLJ were both good, but not great. They're miles better than the prequels, though, so I'm happy. But I get that when you see the first two movies, they are spectacular (and you're younger, so plot holes don't bother you as much). So you expect all of the movies to be that good. Of course, that's an impossible standard. And you're not going to get that magic of seeing your first Star Wars movie again. It does kinda suck, but that's life.

The other thing is that the Last Jedi had a lot of stuff that was just Rian Johnson eyepoking the fans. For example, Kylo Ren taunting Rey about his nobody parents - everybody had a pet theory for who Rey was, and she's a nobody. I thought it was great, but I see how people would be pissed off about it. Snoak dies without any backstory, after people wondering where the hell he came from.

The other thing people forget is how much of the gaps the EU filled in. The Emperor had literally no backstory in the original trilogy. He barely appears in the first two movies. Ackbar was an important character in the EU, but a bit part player in the originals. Etc. Part of this is loss of the EU, which people grew up with and really enriched a lot of Star Wars beyond the movies. 

[Buckeyebowman]

I don't plan to see it.

[saevel25]

9 hours ago, DeadMan said:

The other thing is that the Last Jedi had a lot of stuff that was just Rian Johnson eyepoking the fans. For example, Kylo Ren taunting Rey about his nobody parents - everybody had a pet theory for who Rey was, and she's a nobody. I thought it was great, but I see how people would be pissed off about it. Snoak dies without any backstory, after people wondering where the hell he came from

Rian Johnsons didn't actively go out to spite the fans.

He discussed this in an interview he did recently. He related back to Empire. At the time, what would be the hardest thing for Luke to deal with as a character. Also what would make the dynamic between Vader and Luke more complex. Vader being Luke's father. It was a brilliant move. It took this heartless character and made you think more about him because you already have this hero you are rooting for. At least for some people. Luke is kinda whinny. It now allowed you to root for Vader in the 3rd movie.

He went on to talk about Rey. What would be the hardest thing for Rey to hear? That her parents are such and such, powerful Jedi, known to be heroic? No, its for her to hear that her parents were no one. That they dumped on this backwater world and left her. Then Kylo uses that as a means to try to manipulate her to join him. It is way more interesting. It makes you really want to root for Rey more. If they said, "You are related to Obi-Wan." It wouldn't be interesting at all.

Lets say that Snoke didn't die in the 2nd movie, but in the 3rd. Do you think they would spend a lot of time building his story? I doubt it. The focus is never on him. The focus was never on the emperor in the original Star Wars. People would still be wondering who the heck he was. I think people get caught up in the Marvel mold of story telling. The Star Wars Skywalker story has always been very personal. They didn't spend 20-30 minutes in the original doing flash backs to build up the Emperor.

I do think people have a legitimate beef how he died if he was this really powerful force user. It wasn't like the Emperor being caught off guard as he was gloating. Oh wait, it was like that.

[cipher]

I am trying to allow for some time to let this movie grow on me.  

[Jack Watson]

Snoke IMO was a terrible part of TFA.  Here I just started to respect his powers and BAM gone.  It was anticlimactic.  However I think it’s intended to make Kylo look more evil.  The thing about the Kylo character is his ACTIONS should have me HATING HIM with a passion.  He’s done a lot of evil deeds. But in fact I still don’t hate him or even dislike or like him much.  Maybe he should have had some evil comment or big evil grin after killing Han I dunno.

The thing is to me Driver doesn’t look like he enjoys being evil the way say the emperor did.  He lacks distinctive mannerisms and evil looks/voice and his little tantrums are pretty pathetic.  I saw a picture of him with a mustache and IMO he should have gone there.

Snoke?  I wasn’t really interested in backstory and after thinking about it I am fine with his demise.  

To me the saving grace here is that Johnson did not kill the Jedi concept as I thought he did after watching.  I am not used to a Star Wars movie making you think a bit and this one does.  It does open up a whole new potential for Star Wars as a brand.  In 77 through 83 it was like a western in space.  This new style opens up possibilities for a new more complex version maybe more advanced and appealing to the more modern moviegoer?

For me the most emotional scene in these last two movies was this...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jHtiEi52KPY

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Jack Watson

[Lihu]

The most disappointing thing for me and many similar fans is that the Skywalker/Solo family is now poised to become the evil the first several movies set out to destroy. Weird twist in my mind.

Ren could have been part of the Skywalker family if they had made Luke a little more “ethereal”. That is to say what Ren saw on that planet was a ghost like Yoda or Obi. I mean, Luke disappears into the wind at the end anyway. Her mom could have sent her to safety before being killed or something?

The plot and effects were a bit sub standard as compared to the originals which started an entirely new field of special effects.

Could have been done better for the money, but it was still enjoyable.

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

However I think it’s intended to make Kylo look more evil.

I think it highlights the conflict inside of him. Which makes him look more good, IMO.

[saevel25]

8 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Snoke IMO was a terrible part of TFA.  Here I just started to respect his powers and BAM gone.  It was anticlimactic.  However I think it’s intended to make Kylo look more evil.  The thing about the Kylo character is his ACTIONS should have me HATING HIM with a passion.  He’s done a lot of evil deeds. But in fact I still don’t hate him or even dislike or like him much.  Maybe he should have had some evil comment or big evil grin after killing Han I dunno.

That is a bit issue with trying to create an evil antagonist in Star Wars. When Vader force chokes the guy who talks back to him. You really get the idea that this guy is someone you do not mess with.

With the expansion of the Star Wars universe, and all the stuff the force users can do, it makes it difficult to have a villain who lives up to Vader. It's like these movies get stuck in the super hero scenario, were each villain has to out due the last. I am not sure I agree that Star Wars has to do that. If Kylo never lives up to the Vader hype, I am OK with that. I really would prefer if he becomes his own character.

18 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

The thing is to me Driver doesn’t look like he enjoys being evil the way say the emperor did.  He lacks distinctive mannerisms and evil looks/voice and his little tantrums are pretty pathetic.  I saw a picture of him with a mustache and IMO he should have gone there.

I know people did not like Kylo. He was a bit too whiney in the first movie. To me, Kylo was pretty much a poser in the first movie. I think they solidified him more as a villain in this movie. I like him much better in this movie. I like the dynamic between him and Rey.

This kinda goes down the Snoke might not be dead thing. What if Snoke planned his death so that Kylo could take that next step down the road that leads to him being the next Vader or more? What is bigger confidence buster then getting out under the thumb of your oppressor?

Yea, the Emperor really enjoyed being evil. I do not think Vader did. Vader wallowed in his anger about losing the only person he loved and that he could not protect her. I also think Vader accepted that he would be a tool for evil. Heck, Vader lived on the planet were Obi-Wan beat him in that duel. He clearly never let go of the past.

I am not sure what drives Kylo. Maybe he just wants to rule. Maybe he just wants power. I do not think he's in the same category of evil as the Emperor or Snoke. If he was then he probably would have out right killed Rey after Snoke. It seemed like he wanted her to join him as an equal, to rule the galaxy as the last two powerful Jedi.

9 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Could have been done better for the money, but it was still enjoyable.

They purposely shot the movie with film, not digital media. That is why it looked old school.

I had no issues with the quality of the film. The landscape shots were fantastic. The salt planet was beautiful. The still shot of the cruiser slicing through the other ships might be my favorite visual moment in any Star Wars movie.

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

They purposely shot the movie with film, not digital media. That is why it looked old school.

That’s not what I was complaining about, but film was more to do with another issue.

https://petapixel.com/2015/12/16/star-wars-the-force-awakens-was-shot-on-film-and-kodak-may-be-profitable-in-2016/

What I thought was cheesy were the little things and the lack of deep thinking to make the plot stick better.

Like I said, it was still enjoyable, but not really groundbreaking or anything. For instance, Rogue 1 was much better. Not perfect, but definitely better.

 

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I had no issues with the quality of the film. The landscape shots were fantastic. The salt planet was beautiful. The still shot of the cruiser slicing through the other ships might be my favorite visual moment in any Star Wars movie.

Yes, those were nice.

[nevets88]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think it highlights the conflict inside of him. Which makes him look more good, IMO.

17 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I know people did not like Kylo.

I agree @iacas - Adam Driver is killing it as Kylo/Ben. He is playing the conflicted son so well that we have sympathy for him. He and Rey were great casting decisions.

33 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The most disappointing thing for me and many similar fans is that the Skywalker/Solo family is now poised to become the evil the first several movies set out to destroy. Weird twist in my mind.

1 hour ago, cipher said:

I am trying to allow for some time to let this movie grow on me.  

It has grown on me and rewatches got better.

Snoke is not as charismatic as the Emperor, but the Emperor didn't have much of a back story either. I'm fine with clearing up the slate to focus on Kylo/Ben.

Imho, this is the most emotional scene of TFA, theater went beserk, still digesting TLJ, probably Luke disappearing in the backdrop of the two suns. Or him and Yoda. Or Kylo force pulling the saber to Rey. Or Leia making her way back to the ship after explosion. 

 

[saevel25]

12 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Imho, this is the most emotional scene of TFA, still digesting TLJ, probably Luke disappearing in the backdrop of the two suns. Or him and Yoda. Or Kylo force pulling the saber to Rey. Or Leia making her way back to the ship after explosion

There are so many singular moments that just draw you in.

The bomber trying to drop those bombs on the dreadnaught (an awesome ship by the way)
Leia finally using force powers to save herself (even if it was maybe subconsciously)
Rey and Kylo fighting over the lightsaber. Which was wonderful because it was what they were fighting over TFA.
Luke's final moments
Yoda trolling Luke
The first view of Snoke's Chambers
The salt planet

Probably my favorite moment, the hyperspace crash into Snoke's ship. I noticed this after the movie. There was no sound in the movie when they did the still shot of fractal pattern. Where you see the gash in Snoke's ship and how it went through some other ships. There was no sound in the theatre. No one was making a noise. You could hear a pin drop.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Probably my favorite moment, the hyperspace crash into Snoke's ship. I noticed this after the movie. There was no sound in the movie when they did the still shot of fractal pattern. Where you see the gash in Snoke's ship and how it went through some other ships. There was no sound in the theatre. No one was making a noise. You could hear a pin drop.

We had sound pretty quickly after the first big dash. And sound leading up to it as the audience realized what was about to go down.

There was only a moment of silence, and then some oohs, some ahhhhh, some cheers, a whistle or two.

Opening night.

[nevets88]

I thought of Kong, sitting on the missile in Strangelove when the bombs dropped.