One Plane vs. Two Plane Swing (Reprise)

[Kalnoky]

At what point in your golf career did you settle on a one OR a two plane swing? When did you realize you were better suited to one vs. the other? How does an instructor determine what is the best swing for you? Do they evaluate your physique?

There was another golfer at the range who briefly showed me this one plane swing, where the takeaway was the same, but the head is still and the backswing feels “flat”. I went through 30 balls this way and struck maybe 2/3 of them solidly in the vicinity of the flag. The best part was, I didn’t feel like I was fighting my body. 

It occurred to me I am being taught a two plane swing for almost a year now. I find this method so unreliable, and so hard to wrap my mind around (this latter part cannot be understated).. I know I am not supposed to contaminate my golf instruction by looking elsewhere, but damn man.. something is not right when you put in 100% effort and only improve 15%. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Kalnoky

[iacas]

I don't think things fit as neatly into boxes as people typically want to put them.

[mvmac]

On 3/2/2017 at 0:10 PM, Kalnoky said:

At what point in your golf career did you settle on a one OR a two plane swing? When did you realize you were better suited to one vs. the other? 

IMO you figure it out by making a good pivot and where ever the arms naturally go just let them do it. Don't "force" a certain arm position because a certain player is flat or upright. The only time an arm plane position should be corrected is if it's interfering with something on the downswing. 

I know Hardy's definition goes beyond arm plane but that's basically what it is. There are players with upright swings that have steepish shoulder turns.

If you cropped out their arms below, the pitch of the pivots are pretty darn similar.

[ghalfaire]

I read the book and enjoyed it, found it interesting.  Not sure as teaching tool just how useful it is.  But it did get me started on the road to a more upright swing as I was persecuted by a hook for years. 

[Hacker James]

5 hours ago, mvmac said:

IMO you figure it out by making a good pivot and where ever the arms naturally go just let them do it. Don't "force" a certain arm position because a certain player is flat or upright. The only time an arm plane position should be corrected is if it's interfering with something on the downswing. 

I know Hardy's definition goes beyond arm plane but that's basically what it is. There are players with upright swings that have steepish shoulder turns.

If you cropped out their arms below, the pitch of the pivots are pretty darn similar.

Hardy or no, I never really paid all that much heed to one plane or two plane. I probably am somewhere in between. I am more focused on take away and downswing plane than anything else and in practice use this little training aid:

[JonMA1]

On 3/2/2017 at 3:10 PM, Kalnoky said:

The best part was, I didn’t feel like I was fighting my body. 

I can't really help with any advice on swing planes, but the quote above struck me as something I can relate to.

With the (different) priority that I work on, not fighting against my body seems to be an indication of success. 

[Patch]

I never really gave it much of a thought if I was using a one, or two plane swing. Never seemed important to me. 

All I ever did was work on a one piece take away with (some what) level elbows, to a decent position at the top of my swing, that would give me a good start on the down swing, into the back of the ball. 

As long as I was making good contact with the ball, my swing was on the correct plane for me. It was a natural movement up, and down for me. 

[mvmac]

4 hours ago, Hacker James said:

I never really paid all that much heed to one plane or two plane. I probably am somewhere in between.

It's been a while since I've read the book but I'm pretty sure the lead arm matching the shoulder tilt at the top of the backswing is one-plane and an arm plane more upright than the shoulder plane is two plane. So the majority of pros would be two-planers.

Like I said in my first post, Hardy tends to feel that one-planers have steeper pivots while two-planers have more shallow pivots. I disagree, pros whether they are one or two plane tend to rotate about 90 degrees to their address inclination (amount they're bent over at address).

[Pretzel]

I think you would be best suited by not worrying about 1-plane vs 2-plane swing and instead working on the key pieces your instructor tells you to work on. I honestly would be unable to tell you if I have a 1-plane or 2-plane swing because it isn't something I'm concerned with.

[Marty2019]

On 3/2/2017 at 3:10 PM, Kalnoky said:

At what point in your golf career did you settle on a one OR a two plane swing? When did you realize you were better suited to one vs. the other? How does an instructor determine what is the best swing for you? Do they evaluate your physique?

There was another golfer at the range who briefly showed me this one plane swing, where the takeaway was the same, but the head is still and the backswing feels “flat”. I went through 30 balls this way and struck maybe 2/3 of them solidly in the vicinity of the flag. The best part was, I didn’t feel like I was fighting my body. 

It occurred to me I am being taught a two plane swing for almost a year now. I find this method so unreliable, and so hard to wrap my mind around (this latter part cannot be understated).. I know I am not supposed to contaminate my golf instruction by looking elsewhere, but damn man.. something is not right when you put in 100% effort and only improve 15%. 

It's an interesting thing to think about.  It seems to me that if you maintain good shoulder tilt and have a flat back swing, a one-plane swing is the result.  It also seems to me that a one plane swing is easier to execute.   I think Matt Kuchar is a good example of a one-plane swing.  

 

[JonMA1]

3 hours ago, Pretzel said:

I think you would be best suited by not worrying about 1-plane vs 2-plane swing and instead working on the key pieces your instructor tells you to work on.

I think the bigger issue with the OP is that he has been struggling with his current instruction for a year. Is that right @Kalnoky?

If that's the case, I wouldn't let one range session determine my next action. However, continued success with something contrary to what's being taught would definitely prompt a conversation with my pro.

[Kalnoky]

On 3/4/2017 at 0:36 PM, mvmac said:

If you cropped out their arms below, the pitch of the pivots are pretty darn similar.

@mvmac yes, I have remained mindful of this, thank you. The only difference now is I keep my arms and shoulder parallel when viewed from down the line. I've been practicing this using a mirror for a week now, and the result is very consistent contact. 

I was being taught a different swing that was, at least to me, much more complicated. Of the three above, I was learning something that looked like the swing on the right. It would take me a 20-30 range balls to get the timing right and this timing carried over to the first tee maybe half the time. 

I asked the question here on TST because even after two years, I honestly had no clue there was another way other to approach the backswing. I looked to my instructors for the absolute truth on these matters. However, I am now completely convinced what I was being taught is not a good fit for my body.  

I am really grateful the man who was watching me at the range that day spoke up, he may have saved me from quitting. Maybe I was just completely in the dark, but I think for other guys who are stuck scoring in the mid to high 90's, the one vs. two plane question might provide a useful framework to begin looking at swing faults.