Two Strokes for OB Instead of Stroke/Distance

[ev780]

Sorry boss this one is not up to your usual  intellectual standards.

 

I do not know where you play but I don't know anyone who just goes up and drops. Sometime a weird lost ball thing but they lose the hole. So your supposition that most people don't play by the rules is lost on me. I know you are talking about the entire universe of golfers but your weekend drinker who happens to be doing it on a nice lawn that day should be nothing to us. They have fun. They enjoy their day. I even enjoy their company sometimes, but the rules are not really for them and they couldn't care less. it doesn't matter what the rule are they are just smacking the ball around the lawn and probably having a good time doing it. So can we please just ignore those people from now on.

 

Next your question is flawed. The answer is sometimes.  Just like using a drop area vs normal hazard procedures I am going to use whatever option get me closest to the hole or the best angle. One of the premises of your book is that closer to the hole is better almost all the time. So it would take a lot for me to give up distance if allowed by the rules.

 

As much as I find some of the rules BS.  (Come on a divot is the utter definition of GUR.)  Anyway stroke and distance is what it is and should remain the same for lost and OB. But if it gets changed I will do what is best for me to crush my opponents.

 

 

[boogielicious]

51 minutes ago, ev780 said:

Sorry boss this one is not up to your usual  intellectual standards.

 

I do not know where you play but I don't know anyone who just goes up and drops. Sometime a weird lost ball thing but they lose the hole. So your supposition that most people don't play by the rules is lost on me. I know you are talking about the entire universe of golfers but your weekend drinker who happens to be doing it on a nice lawn that day should be nothing to us. They have fun. They enjoy their day. I even enjoy their company sometimes, but the rules are not really for them and they couldn't care less. it doesn't matter what the rule are they are just smacking the ball around the lawn and probably having a good time doing it. So can we please just ignore those people from now on.

 

Next your question is flawed. The answer is sometimes.  Just like using a drop area vs normal hazard procedures I am going to use whatever option get me closest to the hole or the best angle. One of the premises of your book is that closer to the hole is better almost all the time. So it would take a lot for me to give up distance if allowed by the rules.

 

As much as I find some of the rules BS.  (Come on a divot is the utter definition of GUR.)  Anyway stroke and distance is what it is and should remain the same for lost and OB. But if it gets changed I will do what is best for me to crush my opponents.

 

 

You didn't quote anyone or use the @ mentions, so it is difficult to determine who you are responding to.

[Lihu]

I think the real question is "How likely are you going to hit 2 bad shots in a row?"

To me, it sounds like something that's going to generally speed up pace of play.

[WestKyGolfer]

I like the rule the way it is. S&D motivates you to keep the ball within the golf course, either by accurately placing your shot or playing away from the trouble. Most experienced golfers will know when a provisional is necessary so they rarely have to return to the original spot. New players usually don't have a clue that they can't just drop somewhere or even that the white stakes mean that their ball is out of bounds. I don't think we need to throw away the principles and traditions of the game for the sake of speed or dumbing down the rules.

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, WestKyGolfer said:

I like the rule the way it is. S&D motivates you to keep the ball within the golf course, either by accurately placing your shot or playing away from the trouble. Most experienced golfers will know when a provisional is necessary so they rarely have to return to the original spot. New players usually don't have a clue that they can't just drop somewhere or even that the white stakes mean that their ball is out of bounds. I don't think we need to throw away the principles and traditions of the game for the sake of speed or dumbing down the rules.

 

It seems like all the proposed rule changes including this one are designed to speed things up. Playing forward is still not quite enough for most of the people out on the course. The question comes down to this, "Do you want to watch people taking 20 minutes per hole or more while playing strictly by the rules, or allow the ROG to change so they can take a quick drop and only affect their scorecards?" Just imagine someone taking their 5th provisional on a hole? While I agree that those people taking 5 provisional might belong on the range first, how do you prevent them from playing a round on the course? I think everyone should be allowed to play any way they want as long as it doesn't take more than 12 to 15 minutes per hole.

Pace of play is more likely of concern to most golfers and golf management. I'd guess that's why the rules changes?

[Fourputt]

7 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 

It seems like all the proposed rule changes including this one are designed to speed things up. Playing forward is still not quite enough for most of the people out on the course. The question comes down to this, "Do you want to watch people taking 20 minutes per hole or more while playing strictly by the rules, or allow the ROG to change so they can take a quick drop and only affect their scorecards?" Just imagine someone taking their 5th provisional on a hole? While I agree that those people taking 5 provisional might belong on the range first, how do you prevent them from playing a round on the course? I think everyone should be allowed to play any way they want as long as it doesn't take more than 12 to 15 minutes per hole.

Pace of play is more likely of concern to most golfers and golf management. I'd guess that's why the rules changes?

Most of the proposed ruled don't have a significant effect per the principles of the game.  Except for the flagstick rule, they don't really affect the basic principles at all.  Once the new rules are finalized, someone may have to revise Tufts, but I don't see anything earthshaking.

I also don't see players taking 20 minutes per hole because they play by the rules.  Most players who know and follow the rules tend to be more concerned about pace of play than the casual weekender who's just out for a 5 hour escape from the house.  The new proposals will help, but they are still not going to suddenly make for 3 hours rounds.  There is still the mindset that must be dealt with, and that will take continuing effort at education and enforcement.

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, Fourputt said:

Most of the proposed ruled don't have a significant effect per the principles of the game.  Except for the flagstick rule, they don't really affect the basic principles at all.  Once the new rules are finalized, someone may have to revise Tufts, but I don't see anything earthshaking.

I also don't see players taking 20 minutes per hole because they play by the rules.  Most players who know and follow the rules tend to be more concerned about pace of play than the casual weekender who's just out for a 5 hour escape from the house.  The new proposals will help, but they are still not going to suddenly make for 3 hours rounds.  There is still the mindset that must be dealt with, and that will take continuing effort at education and enforcement.

Okay, I admit that this has not been my experience as well, and my assertion was more from a theoretical standpoint. I was only guessing that the different rules governing people did some studies that concluded that these types of things could improve user experiences in golf? Honestly, I don't see any other reason for the rules changes other than that? Of course, I'm happy with the rules that I've already learned. . .

I likely wouldn't really be tempted to use this 2 stroke rule over stroke and distance, but I can see it being helpful for many people I play with.

[Fourputt]

20 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Okay, I admit that this has not been my experience as well, and my assertion was more from a theoretical standpoint. I was only guessing that the different rules governing people did some studies that concluded that these types of things could improve user experiences in golf? Honestly, I don't see any other reason for the rules changes other than that? Of course, I'm happy with the rules that I've already learned. . .

I likely wouldn't really be tempted to use this 2 stroke rule over stroke and distance, but I can see it being helpful for many people I play with.

I think that as well as helping with pace of play a little, the new format is mostly designed to be easier to understand and execute for the average player.  Things like the proposed drop method.  You are no longer required to drop from a certain height.  You also don't have to worry about the ball rolling 2 clublengths.  It now has to end up in the same measured area where it is required to first hit the ground.  Makes for a smaller relief area.  And since you can drop from only 1/2 inch as long as the ball is not touching anything when it's released, it won't bounce as far so there is less likelihood of needing a second drop.  That makes it both simpler and faster.

That seems to be the biggest focus on the new rule format.

[Lihu]

59 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I think that as well as helping with pace of play a little, the new format is mostly designed to be easier to understand and execute for the average player.  Things like the proposed drop method.  You are no longer required to drop from a certain height.  You also don't have to worry about the ball rolling 2 clublengths.  It now has to end up in the same measured area where it is required to first hit the ground.  Makes for a smaller relief area.  And since you can drop from only 1/2 inch as long as the ball is not touching anything when it's released, it won't bounce as far so there is less likelihood of needing a second drop.  That makes it both simpler and faster.

That seems to be the biggest focus on the new rule format.

Agreed, and the less thinking and confusion part possibly speeds things up as well.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Braivo said:

I am not arguing what is right/wrong, I am simply stating that perhaps the elimination of some complex, overly penal rules may help grow the game more than we realize. 

As others said it is not at all a complex rule. People just don't like being punished for hitting a bad shot.

 

[DrvFrShow]

It depends. There's a couple of places where the drop from the OB wouldn't be a bad place - like it's actually not tall rough. I've found my ball 6" out of bounds which really sucked because it put me back in the FW bunker. I would have rather taken the two strokes and dropped two club lengths in bounds. There's other places where the drop from OB would be terrible. So somewhat likely.

[cutchemist42]

Yeah most golfers are using it, however my groups only apply 1 penalty stroke, so my friends say they are shooting their 3rd from the spot which I personally. Im the only one in the group that will say Im shooting my 4th, and they hate it.

When I play alone, Im doing provisional, but my usual playing groups hate the provisional stuff.

[Lihu]

10 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

Yeah most golfers are using it, however my groups only apply 1 penalty stroke, so my friends say they are shooting their 3rd from the spot which I personally. Im the only one in the group that will say Im shooting my 4th, and they hate it.

When I play alone, Im doing provisional, but my usual playing groups hate the provisional stuff.

They'd rather wait for you to go back to the tee box and hide behind trees lining the fairway?

 

[cutchemist42]

On 10/03/2017 at 7:42 AM, RandallT said:

I'll just chime in here and say that one of the reasons I haven't considered competing yet is that I do not feel confident enough off the tee. This rule makes me hesitant to embarrass myself in a real competition, but as I grow as a golfer, the rule as is doesn't bother me one bit (and never has).

Last time I piped two straight OB's was probably in 2015, and that's because I've been working hard on a swing that'll get me from a duffer to one that I think is competition-ready.

So the idea that golf rules would keep me from enjoying golf is not true with me. If anything, this rule makes me dig deeper, and appreciate the hurdle I needed to overcome.

If it weren't so penal, who knows- maybe I'd have been content with my crappy swing as my scores wouldn't have been hurt as bad by drivers sliced off the planet.

Makes me realize how important it is to have a somewhat reliable shot off the tee, and that's not only rewarding to strive for, but ultimately makes me a better golfer.

 

Yeah I play by the proper OB rules when Im alone, and I remember the exact course/round that showed my driver swing wasnt going to cut it on tighter/harder courses. That round actually was a benefit to me, I learned from it.

[cutchemist42]

18 minutes ago, Lihu said:

They'd rather wait for you to go back to the tee box and hide behind trees lining the fairway?

 

Haha maybe......but actually one guy is pretty militant if he sees you pulling out another tee/ball for a 2nd tee shot. "You had your chance, just drop it up there" is the usual response.

[Fourputt]

On 4/4/2017 at 11:47 AM, cutchemist42 said:

Haha maybe......but actually one guy is pretty militant if he sees you pulling out another tee/ball for a 2nd tee shot. "You had your chance, just drop it up there" is the usual response.

He and I would not be playing much golf together if he was adamant about that.  In my opinion, there is a significant attitude issue with anyone who would try to block me from playing by the rules.  I've never had a friend who would have any issues with me playing the way I feel is right.

[RickK]

I voted "Very unlikely".  Definitely not in favor of such a rule.  I play in what used to be a "league" that had rules, not in accordance with the Rules of Golf, to speed up play. I thought such rules in the league were crap back then and fought to get the league to begin playing under ROG.  If you lose your ball or you hit it OB...you should be hitting again from where you last struck the ball...not getting a possible 250 yard advantage to go up and play.  Who knows, your second ball may have gone OB also.  I certainly have seen it happen before. If you are playing in stroke play tournament, every stroke counts.  With such an option for OB, you have probably taken away the outside chance the player may have a monster number on the hole.  

Edited April 18, 2017 by RickK

[chris3putt]

I voted "very unlikely" for the reason that has been mentioned by several others. An OB shot has usually gone significantly sideways, so dropping nearby will have you further from the hole than a second (decent) drive, for the same penalty strokes. BTW, I never seem to have trouble hitting the second drive decently .