What Would a 20.1 (see post #95) Index Shoot at a Local U.S. Open Qualifier Site?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Honestly, I've never quite understood the reasoning either.  It may be to provide a little more benefit to one player or another in the conversion.

I'm sure that someone smarter than me can answer the question...

No. It's just simple math.

[David in FL]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

No. It's just simple math.

I did the math.  Comparing the 2 systems and our 20.1 index to a 7.0 index, the USGA system gives the higher hcp player an extra stroke.  I just don't know if that's the overal intent.

Math is math, but there's a reason that the particular calculation was decided upon.  I'd genuinely like to understand what it is.  

[iacas]

Just now, David in FL said:

I did the math. Comparing the 2 systems and our 20.1 index to a 7.0 index, the USGA system gives the higher hcp player an extra stroke. I just don't know if that's the overal intent.

You're looking at it backward (or sideways, or some other direction). A handicap is meant to figure out how well you play against someone else of a different ability level.

So a scratch golfer and an 18.0 (index) handicapper go out and play a 75.0/145 course. The scratch golfer has a 0 course handicap. The 18.0 gets a course handicap of 23 (not 26, because we don't take 75-72 or something).

This aligns with the very definition/purpose of the "slope" - to determine, relative to a straight 1:1 progression, how much harder a course plays for the bogey golfer over the scratch golfer.

So they play their rounds and shoot 75 and 98. They tie, because the 98-75 = the 23 strokes the one player got.

(98 - 75) * 113 / 145 = 17.9 (we lose some points when we round on both sides of this equation).
(75 - 75) * 113 / 145 = 0

Things work out.

1 hour ago, MacDutch said:

(75.3 - 72) + 20.1 = 23.4

Let me put this another way… where the hell does the 72 come from? Par, at the end of the day, is somewhat arbitrary. The 8th hole at Oakmont would be rated exactly as it is now whether you call it a par 3 or a par 4.

From the USGA's definitions:

Quote

Slope Rating defines the USGA mark indicating the measurement of the relative difficulty of a course for non-scratch golfers compared to the Course Rating.

Consider this… on a 113 slope course, a player's handicap index is his course handicap (after you've rounded). Who cares what par is - if it's 64 then the scratch player should shoot 64 and the 18.0 should shoot 82 to have a square match. Or if the course rating was 80… the scratch golfer should shoot 80 and the 18.0 should shoot 98 (if it's 113).

The slope is the only adjustment necessary to derive a course handicap, because a course handicap is meant to determine the adjustment necessary between two players to have a fair match.

[David in FL]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

You're looking at it backward (or sideways, or some other direction). A handicap is meant to figure out how well you play against someone else of a different ability level.

So a scratch golfer and an 18.0 (index) handicapper go out and play a 75.0/145 course. The scratch golfer has a 0 course handicap. The 18.0 gets a course handicap of 23 (not 26, because we don't take 75-72 or something).

This aligns with the very definition/purpose of the "slope" - to determine, relative to a straight 1:1 progression, how much harder a course plays for the bogey golfer over the scratch golfer.

So they play their rounds and shoot 75 and 98. They tie, because the 98-75 = the 23 strokes the one player got.

(98 - 75) * 113 / 145 = 17.9 (we lose some points when we round on both sides of this equation).
(75 - 75) * 113 / 145 = 0

Things work out.

Let me put this another way… where the hell does the 72 come from? Par, at the end of the day, is somewhat arbitrary. The 8th hole at Oakmont would be rated exactly as it is now whether you call it a par 3 or a par 4.

From the USGA's definitions:

Consider this… on a 113 slope course, a player's handicap index is his course handicap (after you've rounded). Who cares what par is - if it's 64 then the scratch player should shoot 64 and the 18.0 should shoot 82 to have a square match. Or if the course rating was 80… the scratch golfer should shoot 80 and the 18.0 should shoot 98 (if it's 113).

The slope is the only adjustment necessary to derive a course handicap, because a course handicap is meant to determine the adjustment necessary between two players to have a fair match.

Got it, thanks.

 

[MacDutch]

Thanks for your explanation Erik, math has always been a strong point for me but not this time.

Luckily I just got home after shooting 77, so the stupid grin on my face is not math related.

[kpaulhus]

Just bumping this to let you know we are playing this round either Tuesday July 11th or the 18th.  

[David in FL]

11 minutes ago, kpaulhus said:

Just bumping this to let you know we are playing this round either Tuesday July 11th or the 18th.  

Looking forward to hearing about it!

[MacDutch]

12 hours ago, kpaulhus said:

Just bumping this to let you know we are playing this round either Tuesday July 11th or the 18th.  

In the meantime his handicap will change. Would be nice to get updates.

[kpaulhus]

On 6/18/2017 at 6:01 AM, MacDutch said:

In the meantime his handicap will change. Would be nice to get updates.

As of the 6/15 revision, he is a 20.3 with 17 rounds posted.

[No Mulligans]

It looks like the round hasn't been played yet.  Is there a new date for the round?

[Hardspoon]

49 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

It looks like the round hasn't been played yet.  Is there a new date for the round?

Here you go…

On 6/17/2017 at 6:51 PM, kpaulhus said:

Just bumping this to let you know we are playing this round either Tuesday July 11th or the 18th.  

[dennyjones]

Did you see JJ Watt (NFL) shot a 117 at Erin Hills just the other day?  

[StefanUrkel]

I would wager that no REAL 20+ handicapper could break 120 if they had to put everything in. Considering the fact that 99.9 percent overestimate their handicap and driving distance. 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, dennyjones said:

Did you see JJ Watt (NFL) shot a 117 at Erin Hills just the other day?  

Yeah, but that's playing the actual U.S. Open course, not a local qualifying site.

[MuniGrit]

On 6/20/2017 at 3:59 PM, dennyjones said:

Did you see JJ Watt (NFL) shot a 117 at Erin Hills just the other day?  

Yes and he posted the card of the four of the guys playing. They were over 500 shots. Yikes

[Groundhog34]

On 6/20/2017 at 9:17 PM, iacas said:

Yeah, but that's playing the actual U.S. Open course, not a local qualifying site.

From which tees? And what about pin placement?

[Groucho Valentine]

Apparently if the 20 handicap actually got into the US Open this year, he would have shot -5. 

[tsdugger]

Excited to watch this round... @kpaulhus and I are building some interest at the club and it looks like we might have a proper gallery to follow the group.

Trying to set it up where the club pro announces names on the first tee and have someone follow the group with a scoreboard