Hank Haney questions Bernhard Langer's Putting

[Vinsk]

Sorry not the best quality or angle shown here. But I watched closely as he putted and his left thumb pulls back and touches his chest and remains there. His grip didn't touch his chest but his thumb did. His left arm remained motionless. If this isn't a pivot point then I must not know what a pivot point is.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Sorry not the best quality or angle shown here. But I watched closely as he putted and his left thumb pulls back and touches his chest and remains there. His grip didn't touch his chest but his thumb did. His left arm remained motionless. If this isn't a pivot point then I must not know what a pivot point is.

I'd like to see more video. I don't watch the Champions Tour (or PGA Tour Champions) much, ever.

[colin007]

Even if his hand isn't touching his chest, it looks very much like his forearm is pressed up against it. For me it's too close for comfort.

[Vinsk]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

I'd like to see more video. I don't watch the Champions Tour (or PGA Tour Champions) much, ever.

This is recent. Apologize for the quality. Just seems to me his left arm is plain and simply, an anchor point.

[iacas]

42 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

This is recent. Apologize for the quality. Just seems to me his left arm is plain and simply, an anchor point.

It didn't look like it was anchored in that stroke, to me.

[Vinsk]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

It didn't look like it was anchored in that stroke, to me.

Not anchored, but I thought the rule doesn't permit 'creating a pivot point either.' That's the part I'm not understanding I guess.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Not anchored, but I thought the rule doesn't permit 'creating a pivot point either.' That's the part I'm not understanding I guess.

His left forearm (below the elbow) doesn't seem to be touching his body or pushed against his body (through his shirt).

[70sSanO]

On June 11, 2017 at 7:26 AM, iacas said:

His left forearm (below the elbow) doesn't seem to be touching his body or pushed against his body (through his shirt).

It depends on what is under the shirt.  We all assumed that Dana Carvey was Hans, but I can't recall ever seeing Bernhard and Dana together.

John

[Golfingdad]

So, people are skeptical again ... http://www.golfdigest.com/story/stanley-and-fleetwood-continue-career-revivals-langers-putting-again-called-into-question-what-you-missed-this-weekend?mbid=social_facebook

This time it's from this weekends US Senior Open and it's Brandel Chamblee helping stir the pot, but again, it appears as though Langer is dangerously close to anchoring.

 

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

So, people are skeptical again ... This time it's from this weekends US Senior Open and it's Brandel Chamblee helping stir the pot, but again, it appears as though Langer is dangerously close to anchoring.

This looks like his thumb is touching if not more.

I think Bernhard is cheating.

[Golfingdad]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

This looks like his thumb is touching if not more.

I think Bernhard is cheating.

It does.  It also looks like his forearm is against his chest too, which by itself is illegal, even if the hand is away from the chest.

If he and anybody else wants to keep this style and claim they aren't anchoring, I think they need to start wearing tighter shirts.  Like Arsenal does:

[DeadMan]

So now there's a bigger chorus of people saying Langer is cheating by still anchoring his putter. But he's never been penalized for it, and I can only imagine that Champions Tour and the USGA (this was a USGA event, after all) have thoroughly reviewed it.

What are we missing? Why hasn't he been penalized?

Edited July 3, 2017 by DeadMan

[Shindig]

36 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

This time it's from this weekends US Senior Open and it's Brandel Chamblee helping stir the pot, but again, it appears as though Langer is dangerously close to anchoring.

I think he's right.  But I've had a dislike of Langer for a while, so I don't know how objective my view on this is.

[Fourputt]

55 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

So now there's a bigger chorus of people saying Langer is cheating by still anchoring his putter. But he's never been penalized for it, and I can only imagine that Champions Tour and the USGA (this was a USGA event, after all) have thoroughly reviewed it.

What are we missing? Why hasn't he been penalized?

Because he is the "face" of the Champions Tour, and they need that sort of recognizable player.  They aren't going to upset the apple cart if they can help it.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

So now there's a bigger chorus of people saying Langer is cheating by still anchoring his putter. But he's never been penalized for it, and I can only imagine that Champions Tour and the USGA (this was a USGA event, after all) have thoroughly reviewed it.

What are we missing? Why hasn't he been penalized?

For one, what we're missing is what might be going on behind the scenes.  We have no idea if the USGA and/or Champions Tour is looking into it or if they already have.

I'd also imagine that the answer to your second question comes down to it being somewhat inconclusive.  I have no idea how something like this would work if they say it looks like you're anchoring and he just says "well, I'm not."  Do they have to somehow prove it?  Or do they, perhaps, just say "look, we've let it go on to this point, so the past is the past, but from here on in, it's on you to make it CLEAR that you're not anchoring.  If it appears to us as such, you're getting penalized."  And, assuming it's his putting stroke for all putts, I imagine the penalty would have to just be a DQ?

[DeadMan]

26 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Because he is the "face" of the Champions Tour, and they need that sort of recognizable player.  They aren't going to upset the apple cart if they can help it.

The Champions Tour, sure. But I'm not sure the USGA would be in that boat.

10 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

For one, what we're missing is what might be going on behind the scenes.  We have no idea if the USGA and/or Champions Tour is looking into it or if they already have.

I'd also imagine that the answer to your second question comes down to it being somewhat inconclusive.  I have no idea how something like this would work if they say it looks like you're anchoring and he just says "well, I'm not."  Do they have to somehow prove it?  Or do they, perhaps, just say "look, we've let it go on to this point, so the past is the past, but from here on in, it's on you to make it CLEAR that you're not anchoring.  If it appears to us as such, you're getting penalized."  And, assuming it's his putting stroke for all putts, I imagine the penalty would have to just be a DQ?

For what it's worth, I read that the USGA spoke with Langer about his putting after his round on Friday, and then he played poorly on the weekend. Maybe that had something to do with it? Pure speculation on my part, though.

[colin007]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

This looks like his thumb is touching if not more.

I think Bernhard is cheating.

I totally agree. For me, the forearm clamped to his chest is even more obvious.

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

I think Bernhard is cheating.

Have to agree. His thumb is definitely in contact with his chest throughout the stroke and looks like even his index finger may be as well.